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feos wrote:
Are you always just recording in real time? Tastudio is not for that, it's for optimizing your input, which means you edit every tiny bit of it until it's perfect. And for that, everybody uses input drawing: http://rgho.st/8Ygrmdpvp
This isn't entirely true, I use a controller and frame advance with tastudio rather than drawing, but source changes were required for me to make this work.
feos wrote:
link_7777, what commit did you add recording to tastudio at?
You should take a look at a branch I have at https://github.com/pgrimsrud/BizHawk/tree/tastudio
I would note that this is based on bizhawk from a year ago. This means that some of the changes do not apply due to refactoring that has happened, and others are hackish and might do bad things to features I don't use
If it makes more sense to see what it looks like from a workflow perspective you might be able to see what I'm doing in a recent twitch vod here https://secure.twitch.tv/link_7777/v/81015020?t=01h31m35s
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If you are always making changes at the end of the movie you could probably truncate every time (which would get annoying). If you want to make mid-movie changes that way it will probably require some changes to bizhawk
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You might try toggling "read-only mode". This is what I do, but I'm not really sure if this will work on the current Bizhawk. It may only be working for me because I have source changes to a working copy.
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It doesn't seem like I've had the same motivation problems in other areas of my life, but growing up my parents weren't too excited about the amount of time I spent playing video games, so I suppose I relate to that.
I got into TAS because it was fun to see how quickly some of my favorite games could be completed, and some of my favorite games didn't have a TAS. Additionally I'm a firmware programmer, and a bunch of these old consoles are very much embedded systems, so it can be a fun problem solving exercise to reverse engineer these games and see how they work/how they can be manipulated.
As for balance with other priorities that can be difficult. I'm not the busiest person in the world, but often things like my job, the wife, the dog, and ... sleep get in the way of TASing. I also have other rta and casual gameplay projects on my list. Really things like finding cool TAS strats that myself and others can use in rta runs makes it worth while for me, or even just seeing that people have watched/enjoyed the run.
It may be worth thinking about it this way. In the future you may actually have more free time to spend creating TASes if you focus a bit more time and energy on school and job skills now. Admittedly that is the sort of thing that is easier said than done though.
Your sewing analogy is pretty apt, I actually do some knitting in my free time. It is slow and tedious, and takes some attention to detail much like TASing does.
I'm not sure how helpful this is, but having a variety of perspectives is probably good, at least for you. Your father may be beyond convincing though, I don't imagine this thread will help much with that
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jlun2 wrote:
Finally watched it. That was quite boring. The only saving grace outside the music was the fact you managed to show that leaving a game filled with intentional bugs to appeal to speedrunning would still end up somewhat futile. lol
Actually now that I think about it, is there some RTS-friendly way to do something similar?
Not that I can think of. You could easily do ACE, but since the in-game timer is involved the save corruption would probably take upwards of 6 frame perfect inputs or bank on a 1/65536 CRC collision. Not RTS-friendly at all.
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Invariel wrote:
Masterjun's video shows that the hard mode map is stapled to the normal mode map -- so could you theoretically save corrupt yourself from normal into hard mode (or the other way), yes?
No. You could definitely save corrupt you way onto the hard map, but it wouldn't be hard mode still since you wouldn't be changing the 'difficulty' flag at 0x39F (which the game uses to set enemy HP, etc.).
You could change it with ACE, but that probably doesn't make much sense either since you could just use the save file name.
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Technically as the first run it probably doesn't need a category, but I felt it was appropriate since it is very much a glitch category and I think you could easily publish a non-glitched movie along side it.
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Only the last room is involved in the save corruption. The route is intentionally sub-optimal because my focus was on creating a script to brute force the crc to demo that it would work. I know BrunoVisnadi has been working on a more optimized route to that room. Once we settle on an optimized route we can run the brute forcing again
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I wanted to bring this thread up to date quick. I was able to get the ACE route to work. My unoptimized run was a bit slower. I think an optimized version would be faster than the campfire route, but it would be close, you'd need to optimize both to be sure.
It is somewhat moot though since with some brute forcing I was able to get ais523's save corruption route to work and it is definitely faster. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/download/28266011834849095
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Warp wrote:
link_7777 wrote:
I understand why you would think this way, but I'll agree to disagree. Many games have ending sequences that start with 'congratulations', or 'you have saved ...' , or some such thing. To me if the game tells me congratulations then I beat the game.
Now it's me who doesn't understand. What does the actual text have anything to do with what I said?
This is turning quite ridiculous. I don't think I can explain my comparison any better than I did, yet people still just outright refuse to even admit that they understand what I'm talking about. You don't have to agree with what I'm saying, but you can at least acknowledge that you understand what I'm saying. What exactly is it that you want me to do? I can repeat my explanation, but I can't explain it any better. If you want me to repeat it I can do that, but it would be useless if you don't even have the willingness to acknowledge you understand.
This feels like some kind of weird fight, where opponents cannot give their opposition even an inch, and even an acknowledgement that they understand what the other is saying is conceding too much, and it has to be avoided at all costs. Even cursewords have already been thrown.
It's the exact thing I wished to avoid in my original post.
I understood your argument, in fact the first two words in my post were 'I understand. Your position is that one you change the code you are no longer playing the same game. That position is totally valid and has technical merit. That said I still disagree with it.
I'm sure this has gotten quite frustrating and has largely strayed from the intended topic, but I did intentionally try to pick an example in use by rta runners
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Warp wrote:
Flagrama wrote:
As for the "romhack" example you made, in that case you are no longer using the same software as everyone else. As long as you are using the same software as everyone else and are just manipulating that software using programming errors, I personally am fine with it. I don't really understand the comparison you are trying to make with this.
Why would most people not consider a modified game that just shows the end credits to be a proper completion of the game? Because the game wasn't actually played through. There was no "speedrun" at all. Sure, you got to see the end credits... but so what? The game wasn't actually played. How is that a game completion? It isn't.
In the same way, once ACE kicks in... well, the game was stopped being played as well. If the custom code now jumps to the end credits, it's essentially no different from the example above. Yes, sure, it's showing the end credits, but so what? The game was not played through. The "speedrun" ended once the ACE kicked in. The game wasn't completed. Just because the end credits are shown on screen doesn't somehow magically make the game having been completed any more than with the romhack example.
Do you understand where I'm going with this?
I understand why you would think this way, but I'll agree to disagree. Many games have ending sequences that start with 'congratulations', or 'you have saved ...' , or some such thing. To me if the game tells me congratulations then I beat the game. I think the smb3 wrong-warp would be a good example since it can be done rta.
Fortunately my speedrun game (nes empire strikes back) doesn't really have any 'non-gameplay' sort of features to exploit
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To address the original post I think I understand your position, but I disagree with it. Since the developers had to write code for it and it had to be tested I'd say save features are a part of the game (though referring to the save feature and the core gameplay with different terms can be useful).
Besides that though I think this a rather difficult thing to generalize and obviously opinions vary wildly. Personally I think this agreement is much better handled on a game by game basis. Also I think the idea of categories serves this argument very well (e.g. save corruption category vs a no major glitches category)
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I think before we dive too deep into optimizing we need to settle on a route. This submission is the campfire route of course, but I think the ACE route can be faster. It works for sure, but I would need to do a little more optimizing to make sure it is faster. ais523 also proposed a save-corruption glitch which I don't really understand the details of.
Probably the save corruption would be shortest if it works and if not it will be between the other two
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Sadly I was unable to complete my run in time for several reasons. Part of my problem was that I spent too much time thinking about the ACE route. I still think the ACE route might be faster, but I have a problem
The analysis page suggested using the fire puzzle at 0x302, this means overflowing your inventory with an SMG that has 2 (or in my case 0) bullets.
With the buyback glitch I can get to 29 items with 15 normal items and 14 guns, but when I equip an SMG and start shooting it always takes ammo from the first slot. I would need it to take ammo from the last slot for this to work. Any ideas?
I could get 6 more items probably, but I'm afraid this would be too slow
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Definitely a yes vote. It is clear to me that this should be published here as an archive of the complete mastery and subsequent fun of pokemon plays twitch.
It is a little sad that the submission doesn't have audience input, but that obviously isn't viable in this sort of static published format. The submission does link to the archive video of the live event which really captures the magic. The submission (and presumed publication) does well at capturing and explaining the feat though, and that seems important to me.
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I'd like to try to contribute to the judging script if I can. I'd still like to participate in the competition, but the core parts of the script should be pretty game independent.
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Cool game, surprised it took so long for someone to submit a run. I considered it, but I didn't think I'd do very well at staying entertaining during all of the auto-scrolling which I think you did very well. Yes vote for an overdue tas
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I believe I played this implementation of snake (or one very similar) in high school. I suppose a different seed may allow for more corner abuse, but overall it seemed pretty well routed. The code entering portion was pretty cool, I do recall browsing through the clunky menus for operators.
Yes vote from me
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sack_bot wrote:
No vote for entertainment.
Super slow paced, annoying jump sound, and the fact there's not all that much TAS can do for this game.
I tried to limit the jumping since the sound is annoying.
I think KyhYang the current RTA world record holder would disagree about what the TAS can do. She has been adopting some of the TAS strats and it has been improving her times by quite a bit
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MUGG wrote:
At 6:00 you lose downward momentum and then bump into the wall - I think the former could have been avoided. Otherwise congrats
When I read your post and look back at the video I thought you were right and I was leaving some frames on the table there. I went back and checked this afternoon and I wasn't able to save any frames there by heading down later and avoiding the collision, I ended up in the same x position. Good to be checking for stuff like that though, thanks.
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c-square wrote:
Nicely done. At 7:01 you swim past a pearl that it looks like you could have picked up without losing time. Other pearls healed you, so I assume this one would too. If you picked that one up, would it allow you to take damage one more time in the Soda Shop?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2erajLeB-LI&t=421
I guess I should have mentioned that one in the notes. It looks like you could just pick it up along the way, but sadly it is protected by an invisible barrier (supposedly currents). You are supposed to give the lobster down below it a charm so he retrieves it for you. Obviously that would take a long time