Posts for mwl


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mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Is there a good map of Dampe's grave online? I tried searching on Google but couldn't find anything.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
You have to do the Dampe race before poe boost and Shadow, since you're going to need the hookshot in Shadow. I'll help you figure out where to place the bombs if you really need it, but I was thinking that you'd use your own judgment. The first bomb may take a few seconds to explode, but beginning with the second bomb you should be able to take the next one out while still sliding. Remember that TSA got 36" in real-time, so in a TAS you don't want to lose to that (plus or minus a few seconds due to his likely usage of the longshot in the last room.)
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Four people cannot be all wrong.
Hyena wrote:
The movie desynced as Adult Link right after entering Hyrule Fields from the Market. :/
SlayerK wrote:
It's fine when I load from the save state, but when I played from the beginning, Link hopped into the moat right after leaving the market.
yarbles wrote:
Yeah, same here as well.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Um, your movie desynchs after getting out of the market as an adult, so I'm afraid you kinda have to redo the Dampe race...
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
He has 30 bombs right now with the C-button glitch. I believe five are needed for various puzzle elements in the dungeons. So 25 is way more than enough for the remainder of the run. At most 3-4 bombs will be needed to do Dampe's race optimally.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
GuanoBowl, you have to do the super-glide during the Dampe race. You now have a Hylian Shield and bombs, so use them. :) That's how TSA got 36".
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Guano, did you try doing a super-glide towards KV as you exited to Hyrule Field from the market?
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
AKA wrote:
What did everyone else get. Although its not clearly defined when Link becomes an Adult I clearly feel that the master sword sequence is easier to time and is when you last have control of YL.
Tool-assisted speedruns are, by convention, timed from the first input to the last input. The last input in the child segment is pressing the A button to pull the Master Sword. That input occurred on frame #282,685, which converts to 1 hour, 18 minutes, and 31 5/12 seconds in real-time. Console runs, on the other hand, are often timed with considerations to gameplay. For example, SDA and Twin Galaxies time OoT runs up to the final blow to Ganon, whereas the TAS won't officially end until the trailing dialogue has concluded. Of course, when comparing the two types of runs, you'd want to keep the timing consistent. IMPORTANT: All "corrections" and other input for the TAS should be added to this list.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Go ahead and make the AVI...would be much appreciated. Thanks.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
The net time gained will be down to about 2-3 minutes. Don't do it, then. Chances are that more discoveries will follow anyway.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Yes, just do that then. Thank you, AKA. The bean purchase dialogue takes between 8 and 9 seconds per bean when forwarded through (A, B, A, B...) optimally. The diversion to the graveyard takes what...no more than 30 seconds? So how much slower is this than the Poe boost? Seg. 2 Jabu-Jabu Zora's River - Buy two beans Warp to Desert Col. Desert Col. - Plant bean + deathwarp Seg. 3A Kokiri Forest Lost Woods - Owl dialogue skip Goron City DM Trail Dodongo's DM Trail - Seamwalk Fairy Fountain DM Trail - Owl warp KV - To graveyard Graveyard - Plant other bean (get Hylian Shield?) KV Hyrule Field Market - Bombchu Bowling Temple of Time This updated route should be very optimal. In fact, it may even be the most optimal considering that there is no fast way to buy a bean before entering the Desert Col. for the first time--you don't have any explosives or rupees. All right, no Iron Knuckle skip in Spirit...gotcha. So just do the crouch-stabbing as usual. @DK64_MASTER: No, that would not help.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
The other option is redoing the run from after Jabu. Instead of warping to the Lost Woods, you'd ride the river down to the magic bean, and warp to the Desert Colossus area to plant it. Then, you'd do a deathwarp and enter the Lost Woods from the forest, while skipping the owl dialogue on the way to Goron City. Still not quite optimal, but it's already very good. Plus, you'd save another five minutes in the adult portion of the run. If not, the time you spend traveling after Dodongo's will probably exceed the time saved in Spirit by going directly to the Mirror Shield. It's up to you to decide whether five minutes saved is enough reason to spend probably five hours or more redoing what you've already done. We're just here to cheer you on, whatever your choice is. Shadow AKA, do you have a video showing how to collapse the statue? Otherwise, the rest is pretty much as shown by TSA. Forest * SC 1 - Entry Courtyard - Get 1st Small Key (See Note 1) * SC 2 - Main Chamber * SC 3 - Stalfos Battle (Need to defeat for upper-level Stalfos to appear); Get 2nd Small Key * SC 4 - Inner Courtyard - Perform Mega Boost * SC 5 - Block Puzzles - Push and climb * Unlock two doors en route to Stalfos Battle; Do two text skips (See Note 2) * SC 7 - Upper-level Stalfos Battle; Get Fairy Bow * Play the Requiem of Spirit Note 1: I'd recommend comparing the time needed to get the small key in the entry chamber (SC 1) versus the room with the wallmaster (SC 10). The wallmaster can be defeated very quickly with a jumpslash and spin attack. Most people on SDA believe that the entry chamber is slightly faster, but no one has actually timed the two rooms. Note 2: Climbing the ledge is not necessary for the second text skip, and is in fact slower. You should hug the wall, jump to the center platform, and jump again to the locked door. Spirit * Iron knuckle skip Everything else is pretty much the same as in TSA's video.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
No, you can never break the game enough.
AKA wrote:
Then go to adult and you have light arrow on your b button and do Ganon early and beat ganon with light arrow and then equip master sword and beat final part of ganon.
How do you skip the barriers in Ganon's Castle without a sword? Can you somehow jumpslash with A?
AKA wrote:
Guano there has been a new trick discovers that pretty much obseletes the current route. Its possible to get to the Mirror shiled ledge without entering the temple, it requires a magic bean in order to do it.
This is too late for Guano, unfortunately. How much time is needed to get the bomb bag is a really important factor to seeing how the route will change. Do you have an answer to this? Hopefully, the all-medallion skip will somehow work out...
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
That last update was _incredibly_ well-done. You're improving greatly there...everything starting from King Dodongo looked pretty much perfect to me. The exact time taken for the child portion was 282,685 frames or 1 hour, 18 minutes, and 31.417 seconds. (I set the endpoint of the child portion as the exact instant when Guano pressed the A button to pull the Master Sword.) For AVI encoding purposes, Dacicus, I suppose you could include everything from the beginning to frame #285150 (1h 19m 12.50s), since Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm and claimed the Triforce when Link was still a child. (There is no clear boundary between that cutscene and the one with Rauru as adult Link, but I think I made a fairly good estimate.) I have yet to run the entire movie to check for desynchs, so I hope the conversion will work out. It's a bummer that the "super sliding" trick wasn't discovered earlier, but I doubt it would have changed the order of the locations visited in the child portion. Without bombs, one would have to take full advantage of enemies. In Lake Hylia, for example, tektites could have been used to reach the Fishing Pond and owl more quickly. In Hyrule Field, could a peahat or stalchild trigger the slide? Since getting bombs in Dodongo's Cavern is at least a four-minute detour, I still don't think the trick can make up for that much lost time--it'd need to be done without explosives. I'll leave it to Guano to decide where he wants to "super-slide" in the adult portion, but for starters, Hyrule Field, DM Trail, and the Sacred Forest Meadow (once on top of the maze) are obvious places to take advantage of the new discovery. In any case, bombs take time to defuse, so it's always important to make sure that the time saved outweighs the time spent. Keep up the good work, and good luck on the poe boost =o It's all downhill after Shadow.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Eh, it's up to you. If you want your record to last for a LONG time, though, then those 10-15 seconds will matter. I believe AKA has expressed interest in doing a TAS after his single-segment console run. He's said that he would be willing to do 1,000,000+ re-records if it means optimizing every frame. *shrug*
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Once atop the seam, I've been able to backrun all the way to the far wall while getting hit only once, so I'm sure it's possible to manipulate it so that you don't lose any health while still taking advantage of the fastest method of travel. AKA, does the ocarina switch trick require a fish at all? I can't find a comment explaining how to execute it. If a fish isn't needed, I'd suggest that Guano (if he doesn't mind) go back to the end of Jabu and re-record from there. If he doesn't catch the fish, he can backwalk to the ZD exit from the staircase and save a good ten seconds or so. If manipulation isn't possible on the seamwalk, Guano (again, if he doesn't mind) could restart from the beginning of Dodongo's and pick up the hearts that appear after blowing open the tunnel entrance. It would definitely outweigh the time lost by being overly careful on the seamwalk.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Dacicus wrote:
About bombchu bowling: There's some variability in the location of the second of the three targets. It can be in three different spots. I made Mupen64 movies of getting through the bowling with the second target in each spot. You can get them and the necessary snapshots here. They might be useful for positioning Link. The shortest one was about 32 seconds, but they're not optimized, so I think it will be easy to get below 30 seconds with frame advance and by moving into position as quickly as possible.
Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
AKA wrote:
This is understandably comfusing for someone who probally hasn't pulled it off. The fish has to be dumped and re-captured because the bottle needs to be held in Link's hand.
I've done many of the tricks myself but admittedly I haven't tried this one. Thanks for the explanation...that was quite embarrassing.
Dacicus wrote:
I'll make them based on the segments on mwl's wiki, unless there's some reason not to, so the next one will be after the child portion is complete.
Good idea. On what's coming up (for Guano): DM Seamwalk and GFF entry: This is understandably very difficult. I can't really offer any advice except to follow Acryte's tips as closely as you can. Don't give up! Great Fairy Fountain: Try using frame advance to speed up the Lullaby. nitsuja said that one note can be played for every six frames if I recall correctly, making the optimal playing time under 40 frames. Bombchu Bowling: You can release a bombchu before the previous wall has completely fallen down. With luck manipulation you should be able to make all three goals in well under a minute. The prize is determined upon entry, so make sure you're getting the Bigger Bomb Bag. Try to use frame advance to manipulate the prize so that you don't waste more time than is necessary.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Dodongo's Cavern: * Why did you take the fish out of the bottle and catch it back shortly after entering that door? Just doing that on the switch should have been enough. * Looks like there was a split-second's delay in the main chamber. You should press A right after releasing each bombchu to immediately regain control of Link. Good luck on the DM seamwalk. You'll need it. :) You collect the Hylian Shield from one of the "tombs" before you race Dampe. This is on the route.
mwl
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Posts: 636
Jabu-Jabu: * When falling down to B1, did you try slashing your sword for a faster descent? I haven't verified it myself, but since the floor is "soft," I reasoned that you should be able to do it without taking damage. * Nice boomerang room and bombchu blast. * Boomerang throw and sidehop in the room before the boss has some room for improvement, I think. Move as soon as the boomerang has left your hand and begin walking up the ramp if at all possible. * Barinade: (1) It looks like one of the hits during the last stage of the battle could have been executed much earlier than you did. When the boss' body is blue, it's vulnerable and you should be able to stun it with your boomerang. (2) Was the boss vulnerable when you did the missed jumpslash? If so, you should have done it when the boss was invulnerable (that is, partially in the ground) or "getting up" so that the jumpslash wouldn't have cost you extra time. * Nice taking advantage of the explosion cutscene when opening the cavern to prevent losing any more health. There aren't any damage-related tricks in Dodongo's, so you should be fine until the Great Fairy heals you. When doing the seamwalk on DM Trail, backwalk as much as you can so that the falling rocks don't hit you. Due to my limited time, I've only been able to watch the .m64 once. (Just fast-forwarding it from the beginning requires nearly a half-hour now.) So I could be mistaken in some of the "corrections" I wrote above. What do you think, AKA?
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Even if savewarping at the slingshot is faster, there isn't a way to record it given the current limitations in Mupen64. Thus, whoever makes the successor to Guano's run should wait until Mupen64 (or another emulator with re-recording functionality) can record resets and load the subscreens without five-second delays. Hopefully, many new timesavers will have been discovered by then... I haven't heard of a way to skip the owl dialogue from that side. (It is possible to skip him entering from the forest, though.) So 57 minutes after Barinade...do you think you can pull the Master Sword before the time exceeds 75 minutes?
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
So then a "missed" jumpslash on Barinade?
That's right.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
Well, Guano, if you don't plan to do the stick/sword alternating trick during any of your backruns, you might as well forget about the "missed jumpslash" thing and just use your last stick on King Dodongo. You're not going to need sticks again in the child portion, and you can't use them in the adult portion.
mwl
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Joined: 3/22/2006
Posts: 636
This shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand... How to do "missed jumpslashes" 1. Z-target the foe 2. Whip out your stick 3. Put a bit of distance between you and your enemy 4. Press A to do a jumpslash Since you're too far away, you'll perform the attack but it will miss. However, the attack power of the jumping stick attack (4 dmg) is still preserved when you do a crouching stab. See this video for a demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zYbaVb31co Notice how I missed Ganondorf on the initial jumpslash, but was still able to take him out with a sufficient number of low stabs. The optimal time to do the "missed jumpslash" on King Dodongo will be between the time when he swallows the bomb and the time when the bomb explodes and he becomes vulnerable.
mwl
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Posts: 636
This could mean Navi dialogues too...
Such as...? There aren't any Navi texts in the current route that could be skipped using ground jumps or explosive boosts as far as I know.
How should it cause problems if you take the warp?
It becomes sunset shortly after entering the castle grounds. It takes a bit of time to travel to the owl from the LH-ZD warp.
Will my heart pieces fill back up to 3 when I enter the ToT?
I don't believe so, but you'll get a refill from the Great Fairy.
And about the boss in DC, am I going to attack him with bombs or stick and sword?
You have to grab the bomb flowers on the four corners and toss them into his mouth. After a few seconds he will be stunned. At this point you can jumpslash him with your last Deku Stick. (Or, if you can fit one in without losing time, do a "missed jumpslash" with the stick and crouch stab him when he's vulnerable.) He will now roll around the room and try to flatten you--just get out of the way. When he opens his mouth again, repeat all of the above, except this time around you will need to do a crouch stab. He should be dead after two attacks in total. Don't pick up the heart container and enter the blue portal as early as you can. Summary Attack cycle 1 (4 dmg): Toss bomb - stun (Missed jumpslash/crouch-stab if you can do without losing time) Otherwise do stick jumpslash Attack cycle 2 (4 dmg): Toss bomb - stun Crouch-stab
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