AKA, did you try the one I uploaded, six posts up? Please tell me that one doesn't desynch...
Guano, use AKA's backrun strategy to Lake Hylia then, since time is so tight. Thanks for sharing, AKA; I didn't even know that. :P
Guano, I did the deathwarp for you (as well as redid the Nabooru capture dialogue):
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=CB869EF60DFAAFAC
I ran the movie from the beginning and it didn't desynch. Thank goodness.
Please use it if you like it. The reason I had Link draw his sword is to make him fall faster. If you decide to use it, you may want to redo the save/continue and file select screens, as I didn't use frame advance.
GuanoBowl wrote:
--Okay, getting hit(and it doesnt hurt me) was faster than just crossing the bridge because it has a tiny tiny boost.
--It WAS determined that the red rupee manipulation was determined the frame you walked in the room, (which was a bummer) cause I got lucky and hit the room at the right frame last time.
I stand corrected. My apologies.
D_Rok wrote:
Can we get an AVI of the WIP so far?
Someone should make an AVI of segment 1. To make it easy for whoever's converting, segment 1 will be defined as everything between frame 1 (0'00.0") and frame 124110 (34'28.5"), inclusive. (This is a 20" improvement over the previous run. Well done!)
Child Spirit comments:
Callout 3: Although you didn't lose health when you got hit by the Green Bubble, mistakes like this don't really look good for a TAS and should be avoided.
Callout 4: In the previous run, you didn't need to pause outside the Anubis' room to manipulate luck. What gives? I was under the impression that the rupees were determined as you entered the room, so that luck manipulation only involved opening the door and not spending time outside of it. But I could be wrong.
Callout 5: I told you that you didn't need to collect the third red rupee from the Anubis. A boulder on Death Mountain Trail en route to the Great Fairy provides the funds you'll need for Bombchu Bowling.
Callout 7: I'm fairly certain that holding down the C-button to shoot a Deku Seed is a few frames faster than pressing it once to take out the slingshot and pressing it again to fire the seed. Compare with what you did in the Deku Tree to release the ladder.
Callout 9: In your previous run, you backwalked to the ledge with the small key and the Beamos were able to detect you just fine. Did you really have to go this slowly? This bothered me the most, as I believe 1-2 seconds were lost, whereas my other tips are just for frame optimizations.
Callout 11: The Iron Knuckle battle was well-done.
Callout 12: You could have fast-forwarded the text (A, B, A, B...) in the Nabooru-capture dialogue. In your previous run, the blue squares marking the end of each dialogue box didn't appear.
I don't want to sound too harsh, but generally speaking, execution was not as smooth compared to your previous run. If you watch one after the other, you'll notice the difference.
Anyhow, these comments are for your information only. I think you should move on to the Fishing Pond and Hyrule Castle. Don't spend time correcting these unless you're really motivated.
What do you others think? AKA? Yautja?
After Hyrule Castle.
You'll either
(1) deathwarp and enter Zora's Domain via the Lost Woods warp, or
(2) you'll backwalk to Lake Hylia from outside the castle gates.
It'll ultimately depend on whether you are able to make it into the courtyard in time and how much health you have after you've learned the Lullaby.
(1) is about half a minute faster than (2), but you don't have many opportunities to lose health without wasting significant time.
I don't get why it always desynchs at that damn place. Are you sidehopping off the hand? All I see is Link holding onto its edge. =/
Anyway, here's the plan:
Segment 1
Get Silver Gauntlets --> Deathwarp (Save + Don't continue)
Segment 2
Kokiri Forest --> Lake Hylia --> Fishing Pond (Golden Scale)
Fishing Pond --> Owl warp --> Hyrule Castle
* Don't get the bottle, and don't enter Zora's Domain.
* Gain as many seconds as you can while backwalking across Hyrule Field.
* Grab on to the owl's talons as early as you can. Try standing in different positions.
I remember testing this a few days ago on Project64. Unless I made a mistake (which is possible as I used savestates), all you have to do is refrain from pressing B between the Armos and the Iron Knuckle, and the attack power should be preserved. The jumpslash across the pit in Callout 4 shouldn't matter.
EDIT - I just ran another test and confirmed that slashing your stick with C-Left to cross gaps doesn't affect the stored power. B is the only button that matters.
If this doesn't work, then do what AKA said.
Of course, in a worst-case scenario you can still do a "missed jumpslash" on the Iron Knuckle and crouch stab from there. You'll probably waste a second or two, but you may end up wasting more if you don't do the flame storage tricks. So do whatever wastes the least amount of time possible.
If you have the time, I'd recommend playing the .m64 from the beginning once after each of these tricks:
1) the Anubis
2) bombchu explosion
3) block-pushing room
Also, after you blast away the wall, try crouch-stabbing the Lizalfos in that room (though, of course, this won't be in the final run.) If it takes two low stabs to defeat one of them, the attack power has been preserved properly.
Yes, that would be the problem. You're not supposed to press B before crouch-stabbing.
What's up with the second-long delay at the door before entering the room with the Anubis? DK64_MASTER, how does that manipulate luck? He got the Anubis to drop 3x20 rupees in his previous run without waiting there.
Also, BAD NEWS -- the movie desynchs after you enter the crawlspace leading to the first locked door. I ran the movie twice to confirm this.
As soon as you start pushing the block... hold back on the joystick. Then as soon as the block stops moving (LITERALLY AS SOON AS IT STOPS... INSTANTLY) press forwards on the joystick. Link pops back and then pops forwards again and pushes a little sooner than he normally does. Saves a few frames when done perfectly.
And also, the name of the topic does kinda subtly hint that it's a test run.
I see that. All I said was that the quality of the run was good enough for submission, and if he spends this much effort throughout the rest of it he might as well get it online. It's ultimately his choice, but I don't see any reason he shouldn't.
Also, since yes, this is a test run, Im going to just wait until daybreak and go from there, then once im done with the child segment, Ill work on it again.
He never did. He's ended up redoing almost the entire WIP.
It's much easier to keep it to one .m64 and one .sra file. We're talking about a difference of under thirty seconds anyway.
I don't recall Guano saying that he didn't intend to submit this run, but it's certainly "publishable" material based on what we've seen so far. In fact, getting it published would increase exposure so that more people can watch and suggest improvements, so doing so may be a good choice after all. But the decision is up to Guano.
Backwalking from the Hyrule Castle drawbridge to entering Zora's Domain took me (non-optimally) almost two minutes.
Kokiri Forest -> Lost Woods -> Zora's River -> Zora's Domain (non-optimally) took about 1'30", so it's about half a minute faster. The only long transition scene is the Zora's Domain one. The one for Zora's River isn't triggered through that warp, and the remaining locations aren't new.
You have a point about the deathwarping, though. Screw Mupen64 for STILL not being able to record hard resets.
Yes I could go along with owl after goldscale, since I had the misconception of time flowing in the fountain. After the lullaby is learned you could then backwalk to Lake Hylia; collect bottle; Zora's Domain; Jabu (jumpslash in I presume); Zora's River; warp to woods; Goron city; toss bomb and enter Dondongo's; bottle trick with fish (collect on the way to the river after Jabu); Great Fairy fountain; owl warp; head for moat and initaite Ganondorf cutscene; BB (bombag upgrade); master sword.
Nah, you'd just savewarp after learning the Lullaby and enter Zora's River from the Lost Woods. Then, warp to Lake Hylia from Zora's Domain for the bottle and warp back. Then the rest is basically the same. I'll update the Wiki route once we've seen confirmation that the day/night cycle really does work out when played this way.
Don't worry about it. I'm sure someone will convert the run to .avi once the first segment has been completed, and you can watch it then.
I'm still trying to think of a solution to that damn day/night problem in Hyrule Castle...
So far:
The time will always be set to noon after
* entering Hyrule Field for the first time
* learning the Requiem of Spirit (which in turn makes it day when you retrieve the Silver Gauntlets, since time doesn't flow in the temple--but a corresponding nighttime Nabooru-capture cutscene does exist)
* exiting Zora's Domain after completing Jabu-Jabu
So, the new discovery in bold rules out going right after segment one. Like last time, it'll be sunset as you leave Kokiri Forest and you won't make it.
* Leave after getting Fairy Ocarina --> reach castle at sunset (No bombchu boost)
* Leave after Segment 1 --> reach castle at night; drawbridge raised
* Owl warp immediately after Golden Scale; get bottle later CURRENT BEST OPTION
* Current route --> few seconds short into castle courtyard
* Savewarp after Zora's Domain --> probably reach castle at sunset
You're finally back!
Cuccos have six hit points. The fastest known method for entering the Well involves a jumpslash.
However, Bombchu Bowling is much faster than entering the Well using any known method. (You can release a bombchu for the next goal as the previous one is still falling.) Also, restocking from the Well requires blowing open a crack, and when you reach that point in the run, you'll be all out of explosives.
You want to get the Bigger Bomb Bag from Bombchu Bowling. When you become an adult, you'll be equipped with 30 bombs on C-down, allowing you to perform a "mega jump" glitch. This glitch can be used to skip the maze in the Sacred Forest Meadow and a small key in the Forest Temple. For more info, check the Wiki.
Do you have the latest version of the .m64 movie?
Do you have Mupen64 with rerecording? (Check the N64 emulators board if you don't have it.)
Guano and I ran it numerous times from the beginning without problems, so hopefully the problem's just on your end.
Except you need the Lullaby to learn Sun's Song, and learning the Lullaby is the only time-sensitive event in this entire run.
For the 100% run, it'll be advantageous to get the Sun's Song as early as possible, but not here.
Time doesn't flow in Zora's Domain either. So skipping King Zora will not affect day/night.
You can try going to the castle after getting the SG. But my impression was that when you did it last time, it was night by the time you got there and you had to wait a minute for the drawbridge to lower.
The other thing you could try is savewarping after you catch the fish in Zora's Domain and then backwalking from the Kokiri Forest instead of using the owl, but I doubt that's faster. Still worth a try, though.
Not really "for nothing" in that we get to see a much more polished run that raises the standards for "perfection," but yes, nothing done before Jabu-Jabu will help resolve this day/night issue.
Right now, the only other idea I could think of is savewarping in Zora's Domain after catching the fish and backwalking from the Kokiri Forest, but I seriously doubt that's any faster, if not a few seconds slower. If it just isn't possible to get into the courtyard before the Wolfos howls, a minute will just have to be wasted. There's no other time to get the Lullaby, especially after the Goron's Ruby as the Ganondorf/OoT cutscene will play at the castle gates.
The optimal time to enter the market is at sunrise to ensure that there's enough time to get past the guards and make it inside the courtyard by nightfall. However, consider these scenarios:
* Leave after getting Fairy Ocarina --> reach castle at sunset
* Leave after Segment 1 --> reach castle at night; drawbridge raised
* Current route --> few seconds short into castle courtyard
* Savewarp after Zora's Domain --> probably reach castle at sunset
Also, the previous run desynchs after the Silver Gauntlets....
Crap. Two discoveries, both of which I've personally confirmed:
1. Time does not flow in Zora's Fountain.
2. It will always be morning when you finish Jabu-Jabu.
:(
Credit to Yautja.
It looks like what the Anubis drops is determined upon entering the room as AKA said. So just make a save point outside of the room and keep killing the Anubis until you get it to drop red rupees. Then, once you've confirmed that it drops three red rupees, make a save inside the room and retry until you can get at least two out of the three. So far the (experimental) odds for red rupees (vs. blue ones) are about one in eight, which isn't too bad. >_>
I've verified that the prize in Bombchu Bowling is determined on entry as well.
I posted about the red rupee from DM Trail already. So two's the minimum you need to get from the Anubis unless there's an easy ten later (so far there isn't that I know of.)
