Now, I think about it getting the bow as a child takes far too long, so we would be better off getting the bow as an adult. In terms of entering the Shadow temple as a child you'll need to climb on the fence near Dampe's roof and jump onto from there and you can indeed side hop over the loading point for Din's fire as a child.
Route
Kokiri
Gerudo (get bombchus and save/quit)
Dondongo's (get bomb bag, beat KD)
Enter Kakariko (get bottle)
...
Well, in this case, why not just do Shadow as an adult?
Otherwise, that's a lot to redo...
Thanks to Swordless link we can now steal the rod as a child.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiOplT8L4Bg
How does this affect possible route changes?
Well basically what you can do now is to enter the Shadow and Forest Temple as a Child and get the bow+hoverboots, then steal the rod and effectivley win the game as soon as you become an Adult, it saves time because you don't have to Complete the Forest Temple and sit through the very long cutscene as well as that you can avoid the prelude speeach. If Guano is still doing the run it would be best to coninue as disscussed before and then perhaps this can be worked into an improvement run.
Oh, wow...what you said is basically it, then. We'll do Forest/Shadow as a child, steal the rod, manipulate the inventory items, become an adult, and get Light Arrows on B. And then after that, just go to Ganon's Castle and complete the game.
This would get us sub-2 for sure...if it works.
EDIT: Would it be possible to skip Hover Boots as well, by using lots of explosive hovers for Ganon's Castle early?
Anything less than perfection for the rest of the run is unacceptable. So the same quality shalt be maintained throughout the whole run.
OMG HAX Update: newer LR time, thanks to Michael Fried:
37"18 .m64
I believe mwl was implying that, since that isn't necessary, that's where he needs to start the redo from.
Indeed I was. Sorry for the ambiguity. I should have used the past tense.
Page glitch.
Bisqwit, if you're reading, please...
UPDATE `phpbb_topics` SET `topic_replies` = `topic_replies` - 1, `topic_title` = 'Majora\'s Mask' WHERE `topic_id` = 267;
EDIT: bkDJ, the page glitch happens here, too.
Petrie's latest message didn't appear in the topic until I replied to reveal his post. This happens every time a new page is generated because the internal reply count is off by one.
mwl -- That shouldn't be a problem. It'll be around about that time anyway.
You talk to Mikau at around 3 p.m., and you enter the inner courtyard of the fortress at nearly 5 p.m. So that's about two minutes of gameplay to redo, including the bomb hovers.
Redoing from 5:00PM.
I'll post my next WIP after the lullabye skip.
Um, as with Darmani, you don't need to listen to Mikau's little speech. Just play the SoH in front of him. This saves about half a minute in real time, so you may want to redo from there... :(
Okay, I propose a redo incuding a SoDT at 5:00PM. Is there any reason why this may be a bad idea? I'd really like to move on.
I'd been thinking about whether 4:30 p.m. Day 1 would allow for adequate time, but I don't want to risk messing up this run. (After all, you can arrive too early, but not too late, or all these efforts become useless.) 5 p.m. is definitely enough though it may not be optimal. I know you probably don't want to do a testrun and then go back since the Goron Lullaby skip is truly a pain. It's very difficult to give a precise estimate, and if I were capable of it, I'd have computed an exact time long ago. It's up to you to decide, unless Petrie, Dragorn, etc. have their input...
By the way, if you didn't know already, you can fast-forward the animation of the spiraling clocks by button-jamming.
I recall the snowhead tas using some technique that you couldn't due to whatever so it'll be even slower than 1.25 termian hours divided by whatever the ISoT's time factor is (unless I remember wrong).
Also I watched form the beginning and when you get to snowhead you kind of fall off the cliff a few times before the end of the input file. normal end-of-file messing around?
It's using the bombchus to blow up the snowballs on the third floor. The Goron Lullaby skip requires a lot of bombchus.
Sorry to ask so many times (for this and other titles), but if it isn't too much trouble for you, an .avi/.mkv of the latest update would be highly appreciated...
Upon reaching Snowhead, before the lullabye skip, the time is ~7PM. Therefore, I can assume that upon entering Snowhead Temple the time will be ~8PM.
Goht should be beaten between 9:30 and 10:00. (Now I really estimate) Goron Race done by ~11:30- 12:00?
By this timing I'll be in Romani Ranch around about 1:00AM. That means hanging around until 02:30AM before the aliens even begin to appear.
This way the Beaver Race would probably be the faster option, however, the ranch bottle would be far more entertaining imo (alien shoot-out or swimming through 45 rings).
I'd say SoDT at 4:00PM...
This post was just a series of my musings. Feel free to come back at me on any of my estimates
This Snowhead Temple TAS (which is nearly optimal except for the Wizzrobe battle) took about 1.25 Terminian hours, and it appears the ISoT was activated. So I'm afraid "9:30 to 10:00" may be a bit too optimistic.
The Goron Race should be done in under 1'06" (real-time).
What are the chances of me having to backtrack to do the SoDT?
I'd quite like to try and progress as I haven't played in a while, but there is no point if I'll have to go back.
Well, first we need to confirm that the ranch bottle is indeed faster.
I'll try running the .m64 again tonight.
Ugh, it desynched again at the same place (around frame 96,000 in West Clock Town) and this time I honestly did not touch the computer. I'd assume Mukki was heading for the Trading Post, but instead he talks to one of the Bomber kids and never exits the dialogue...
I was playing from the very beginning using the same plugin setup as Mukki.
It is very inconsistent. In fact, I believe the current world record time (1'06"xx IIRC; please check speedrunwiki) was a losing race.
bkDJ wrote:
if you get there too late, the inverted song of time could be used to get there exactly when needed. if you get there way too early, then the beaver would have to be the way to go :/
Actually, if we arrived too early, we could play the SoDT before 6 p.m. Day 1, though that'd require a good bit of backtracking unless we were able to somehow compute the difference in advance...
We need to figure out which bottle's faster first, and if it is indeed the ranch bottle, then hopefully we can work this out somehow.
EDIT: If my above explanation was unclear...say that we arrive at the ranch two Terminian hours early. We'd play the Song of Double Time at 4 p.m. to fast forward to 6 p.m. But we do this only if the ranch bottle is indeed faster factoring in the whole process of obtaining it, including traveling to the ranch and selling/drinking the milk later.
I was just doing attempt for that segment in my run and found that the latest you can arrive is somewhere between 3:25 and 3:30. At somewhere around 3:35 they took the barn.
For me, it happened at 3:50 a.m., though I was at the ranch since 2:30 a.m. I'll try again outside the ranch to see if that makes a difference.
If not, I wonder if this could be manipulated to get the latest time possible.
if you get there too late, the double song of time could be used to get there exactly when needed. if you get there way too early, then the beaver would have to be the way to go :/
*Inverted Song of Time. The Song of Double Time jumps to the next sunrise/sunset.
The latest time to collect the third bottle is after Snowhead/Woodfall and before Pirates' Fortress (second visit), Pinnacle Rock, and Great Bay. So we'll see how it goes, and make adjustments to the plan as necessary.
Hello there, Dragorn.
Since you're starting a new run, I have a polite request: can you please collect the stars in numerical order as much as possible when time is not a concern?
It's up to you, but it's a lot less confusing this way, and the run is also more organized.
I was playing the movie in fast-forward from the beginning, and around the halfway point, I stupidly adjusted the playback speed, causing a desynch. (Note that this is NOT the author's fault -- for some reason, recordings for this game easily desynch if one adjusts the speed in mid-play.)
I'll give it another go on Monday. That was a half-hour down the drain...darn it.
We definitely need three bottles because the time needed for additional trips to Pirates' Fortress and Pinnacle Rock is simply too much. I've been thinking if the beaver bottle could possibly be faster than the ranch bottle. The world record for both races combined is around 2'45" (20 rings; 25 rings), which is slightly more than the time needed to guard Romani Ranch from 2:30 a.m. until sunrise. However, we also consider that
(1) the beaver races are not frame-perfect and could be further optimised;
(2) the Milk Road is rather out of the way;
(3) the Powder Keg skip requires quite a few explosives;
(4) the "practice round" for guarding the ranch takes at least a half-minute (unless there's a way to skip that); and
(5) after obtaining the ranch bottle, we need to get rid of the milk, whereas the beavers provide an empty container.
The only reliable way to check for desynchs is to run the movie from the beginning every time. Because Guano doesn't do that, now he has to redo nearly all of Forest Temple, and that's a real bummer.
Except you have to consider that there's setup time to get the sword glitch activated, so it ends up being slower.
Guano can achieve the same result using frame advance.
I was hoping for a one-cycle K.O. with this trick, but guess not...
Forget it, then.
EDIT - Yautja, you're right about that. I stand corrected...
Hmm...but then if you add up time taken to assign the nuts and in fact get the nuts it could possible be a few seconds. Unless I will definitely be using nuts later.
Hopefully it is that minor. I'm in Pirate's Fortress now and the thought of going all the way back there doesn't excite me all that much.
I can imagine.
Anyway, I can't think of a place in the run where Deku Nuts are absolutely necessary, but they may save some time much later on during the Garo Master battle. It's possible without, but you'll have to dodge his attacks and hope that he doesn't dodge yours. I'm not certain as to the degree of luck manipulation you'll be able to do, but from what I can see, the time saved by using Nuts on that particular battle slightly outweighs that needed to collect and equip them. I might be wrong, though.
