TASVideos

Posted: 12/22/2006 7:29 AM

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nitsuja

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Hitting a boss 30+ frames later than the fastest possible time, with a 0-frame margin of error, when randomness is known not to be involved, is exactly the sort of condition likely to be go untested when making a TAS. I only found out about that peculiar bug from you finding out about it. I tested that path in Emerald Hill 2 extensively, and a lot of different combinations of paths. I think it should be possible to save another time unit there somehow, as bouncing from enemy to enemy is not the fastest form of travel, but it avoided so many obstacles that all of the other paths I tried were slower. It is possible to jump at almost any curved ground that meets an edge to fall through it and possibly start zipping, but I knew this the entire time and still couldn't find any place where it would be useful. There are no rules against minor improvements, but I'd be disappointed by such a small improvement as 4 or 5 seconds when most of it comes from a single trick on a boss and other possibilities for further improvement haven't been full expored. Usually a complete redo would give a better overall result even if it seems like all the tricks have already been found.

Posted: 12/21/2006 9:52 PM

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nitsuja

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What, PS2 rerecording already, before PSX rerecording is practical? Well I couldn't even get this emulator to work, but maybe someone else could try it...

Posted: 12/21/2006 9:30 PM

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nitsuja

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I've known about that since October (and it would save 4 time units), but that and Metal Sonic seem to be the only bosses with a bug like that, and I don't know of many other improvements to make. The spindash-through-objects trick from Sonic 3 does work in Sonic 2, but I'm not sure where it would help much.

Posted: 12/20/2006 6:34 PM

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nitsuja

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It depends on the system's key repeat rate, like any other command in a Windows program. Maybe he has the key repeat delay set very high or is using a key that Windows doesn't generate key repeat events for. FCEU doesn't use commands for the frame advance key, it does its own ad-hoc repeat detection, but Snes9x and VBA both treat it as a command.

Posted: 12/20/2006 6:16 PM

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nitsuja

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Because you left the intro effect color set to black, and there is no black snow effect. (It should be set to white by default so you don't have to change both settings to enable it, but I guess something went wrong with setting that default. Alternatively, the checkbox could be removed as redundant, but then it might not be clear enough that the intro can be enabled/disabled at all if there is only a selection of colors.)

Posted: 12/20/2006 5:29 PM

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nitsuja

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upthorn wrote:

I can make it black the screen out.

It fails to do so if any of the render filters besides Normal or Double are selected. By the way, I think nobody noticed, but there is a new render filter called "EPX" that wasn't there in 9j or earlier.

upthorn wrote:

I can't find the reason it stopped doing the multicolored snow effect, though.

It's not the default anymore, that's all.

upthorn wrote:

This isn't actually a bug.

I never said it was, but I did think it was done to avoid a bug and that perhaps that wouldn't be necessary later. (Associated problem: The way those dialogs steal focus from the emulator when they automatically reopen is also mildly annoying.)

Posted: 12/20/2006 5:26 AM

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nitsuja

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Feature request: Store displayed pixels in savestates, and make loading them immediately display the way the previous state looked, like VBA does. Feature request #2 and 3: Make the "close rom" command blank out the screen like it used to, and (this is probably covered under your "overhaul RAM search/watch", but) don't clear out the watch list when loading a ROM.

Posted: 12/18/2006 6:39 PM

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nitsuja

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DDRKhat wrote:

It's still not working for me.. Boot up Sonic 3 & Knuckles.. Record new movie.. Select new game, once plane finishes flying, Savestate. Record with numlock ON capslock OFF. after a while stop movie. Load movie capslock ON numlock OFF. reusme from savestate. do moves with tails.

Here's the procedure, in your terms: Boot up Sonic 3 & Knuckles.. Record new movie.. Select new game, once plane finishes flying, Savestate. Record with numlock OFF capslock OFF, controlling sonic. then turn numlock ON, then load the savestate. do moves with tails. If Sonic doesn't start moving around on his own in the same way you moved him before, either you screwed up one of those steps or you opened the wrong emulator.

Posted: 12/18/2006 3:21 AM

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nitsuja

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I found the cause of this problem earlier. All of the edit fields were listening for joypad input, so one of them would randomly get the input first and change that button instead of what you meant to change. It's not in any release yet but rest assured the fix has been made and will be there whenever the next version comes out.

Posted: 12/18/2006 3:12 AM

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nitsuja

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I think upthorn's definition of "up a hill" is not what JXQ meant, and his description of act 2 isn't so accurate. Here is what happened: - ran left (and downward at such unmatchedly ludicrous speeds that vertical level wrap started happening more than once per second) - horizontal level wrap from the start of act 1 to past the end of act 1, at the instant of hitting the left side of the level - camera reversed directions, now scrolling right instead of left to catch up - ran up a hill slowly, because I was where the act 1 boss would be when act 2 loads and needed to be further left by then - ran out of hill to run up and went into a wall, zipped up and down a bit solely to make people more dizzy - jumped down into the corridor before the act 1 boss at the right edge of act 1 - jumped down through an unloaded part of the level on the right - the camera finally got close enough for act 2 to start loading, placing me in act 2 - the ground collision loaded, stopping me from falling - the camera caught up completely and stopped scrolling - short wait for loading - the wall collision loaded, enabling zipping, and I zipped left and level wrapped from the start of act 2 to past the end of act 2 - ended up in a loop somewhere, waiting for the now-scrolling-right-again camera to catch up - jumped to the correct height to give Tails control, having already manipulated him to be there at the right time to still have control when the boss fight starts - zipped up and down to make people dizzy again right before the screen caught up to the act 2 boss (far to the left), while starting Tails flying - boss screen lock teleported me to where the boss was, and Tails fell from directly above to put Sonic on the ground and (because Sonic can't spindash and has no shield) to make it possible to hit the boss early

Posted: 12/18/2006 1:47 AM

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nitsuja

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DDRKhat wrote:

Do I stop recording..? how do I begin player 2 input alongside Player 1? I'm sorry but im utterly confused here.

After recording something, switch to player 2 then load a savestate before (or during) what you recorded with player 1, and continue recording. EDIT: What's so confusing about ice cap?

Posted: 12/16/2006 6:27 PM

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nitsuja

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I thought it would be obvious since I said I used it for most of my S3&K movie, but that camera hack Gens also has multi-track recording in it, which you could try out in S3&K. Num Lock is the "don't record Sonic" button and Caps Lock is the "don't record Tails" button. If you turn both on at the same time, the movie will play back while recording itself, recovering whatever input is after the "end" of the movie. Ctrl-T toggles read-only so you can switch between true playback and recording mode. The "Automatic Close Movie" checkbox in the options should absolutely be turned off, even for regular recording in Gens 9z (if off is not the default, it should be). I think a more general/customizable multi-track recording feature should have these additions: - Ability to set what keys to use, obviously. It should neither be limited to Lock type keys nor require holding the key down to "stay in a track", and it should not be limited to only 2 tracks. - Ability to assign more specific input to a track than simply "player 1" or "player 2", such as "player 1's jump buttons" or "player 1's directional buttons". That way it would be useful in 1-player games too. - Some way of seeing which tracks are currently recording. - Some bounds checking so you don't get garbage input on the other track when recording only one track past the end of the file. This could be trickier than it sounds because the standard error/eof checks will sometimes say the file has ended earlier than the amount of valid input it really contains, which is why I left it unchecked, to avoid prematurely-ending tracks. Something for testing...

Posted: 12/16/2006 6:12 AM
(Edited: 12/16/2006 10:31 AM)

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nitsuja

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DDRKhat wrote:

Would it possible to modify that version to allow it to function for Sonic 2 also?

Yes, and the same for Sonic Advance and Sonic Advance 3. But it's downright boring to watch in Sonic Advance 1 or 3, and I imagine it's not very interesting in Sonic 2.

DDRKhat wrote:

How hard would it be to adjust it for each game, Surely it's just a specific RAM value to identify what co-ords the players are at ...

It needs a lot more game-specific information than that. This S3&K camera hack references 20 different RAM addresses, not just the player X and Y positions, and it renders the offscreen frames by emulating 10 frames ahead per frame with incremental changes tailored to the game's update code capabilities, while tricking the game into not moving any objects during those 10 frames. And it's still not quite enough (it gets glitchy when the game is lagging, and mostly fails in certain parts of Sandopolis 2 and Lava Reef 1). It wouldn't apply to very many games, anyway. Generalizing it would most likely mean some variety of mod/plugin scripting support.

DDRKhat wrote:

This definitely makes your Sonic 3 & K recording VERY interesting, knowing where Tails is all the time.

Tails teleports around a lot when Sonic isn't looking, doesn't he? Getting Tails to show up at the right times is one of those things that looks like I didn't even do anything to make happen, but was actually pretty difficult. Whenever I left Tails behind and did nothing with him, it was usually either to avoid lag or to manipulate his teleport positions and timing. Also, you should find it interesting for things besides Tails. Even in SprintGod's movie with Sonic alone, he does a lot of stuff offscreen that you can now see completely, and that applies moreso to the newer, glitchier S3&K runs.

Posted: 12/15/2006 4:19 AM

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nitsuja

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mmbossman wrote:

I think this is a known Mupen problem (cutting off the last few frames of input), but I don't know the specifics

I believe this is the easiest way for you stop that from happening:

I wrote:

save and load a savestate on the last frame of recording your movie, before stopping the movie

comicalflop wrote:

using interpreter makes it desynch

Did you record it with interpreter on? Like DeHackEd said, you have to start over to use interpreter mode. If anything you should get less desyncs when you use it.

Posted: 12/15/2006 3:37 AM

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nitsuja

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It's in the General tab in the main Settings dialog. Interpreter mode is more demanding to run but less prone to errors. I don't believe that setting is stored in the movie file, which will be inconvenient for other people watching your M64s, but it looks to be worth using here anyway.

Posted: 12/14/2006 10:55 PM

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nitsuja

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That's game-specific and unlikely to end up in any official or semi-official release, unless it can somehow be made customizable enough. But if anyone wants to see the camera hack I used, I put the version of Gens I used for most of my S3&K movie here. It's based on a between-releases build and has some problems, but it should work for seeing what the characters were doing offscreen. To focus on Tails instead of Sonic you have to turn on your Num Lock. Num Lock has to be off to focus on Sonic (doesn't matter for Knuckles though), and Scroll Lock must be off at all times.

Posted: 12/14/2006 7:50 AM
(Edited: 12/14/2006 8:30 AM)

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nitsuja

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laughing_gas: You know you are not supposed to choose "Record" to continue recording, right? That is only for starting a new recording. To continue recording you have to "Play" the movie and load a savestate while the movie is still playing back, like the FAQ says. EDIT: I'm no good at this mind-reading business, am I?

Posted: 12/14/2006 7:31 AM

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nitsuja

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laughing_gas wrote:

In fact, it only records if I don't open a movie file.

That's a new one. I don't know, explain what you mean by "records if I don't open a movie file" (records to where, and how do you know it's recording) and "doesn't rerecord" (desyncs, switches to playback, stops emulating, records but doesn't update file, records but doesn't let you control the character, says recording failed, says it's recording but you don't believe it, records from a different savestate than the one you loaded, etc.) EDIT: Also, use the savestate hotkeys only. Don't go up to the menu and choose Save As... or Load As... or anything else to save and load your savestates.

Posted: 12/14/2006 7:21 AM

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nitsuja

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AceOfShades wrote:

Just finished watching Sandopolis 1, and I'm somewhat confused. You make the signpost reveal a ring monitor, but unless I've lost a few marbles, your ring count inside the pyramid started at zero. What was the point of collecting these rings then?

Take your pick of explanations:

SprintGod wrote:

All the messing around after the end of the last act was for here. The moving pillar at the start was in the way, and if I'm going to wait, I might as well do so when the timer isn't running.

Raiscan wrote:

Because the timer of the big block thing that moves up and down at the enterance is still running, yet the ingame timer is not. by making knuckles hit the ring box, it delays him slightly, so hes able to start the level right away rather than wait for the object to move down again.

upthorn wrote:

I have to wait that long for the pillar at the beginning of act 2 to lower, so I might as well do it while the timer's not running.

Posted: 12/12/2006 1:46 AM

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nitsuja

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There are actually two codes, a cheat version and a non-cheat version. But here's the problem I see: - Using the cheat version, people will object on the grounds that it isn't a 100% run and the cheat makes it too easy, although I bet it doesn't make it easier to TAS. - Using the non-cheat version, people will object on the grounds that it's the same as JXQ's S1K run except made longer with bonus stages and slightly faster elsewhere. JXQ: Were you inspired by this topic? I would have said I can't believe you finished both of them already, except... I can. Slightly offtopic: I wonder how a run of Sonic 2 & Knuckles (an official hack, unlike S1&K or S3&K) would be categorized. ...

Fixed.

Posted: 12/11/2006 7:58 AM

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nitsuja

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comicalflop wrote:

I definetly noticed applications of glitches here that might work there, especially for when the routes overlapped. (Lave Reef zone, Air Battery).

I noticed those too: - Flying Battery 1: This is the most promising one. Sonic can do the screen wraparound to the boss unless it requires a split second of gliding I didn't notice, but he can't activate the other glitches nearly as quickly (or at all) without gliding, so it might be slower given the extra time it takes to get up there. - Sandopolis 2: Sonic can't glitch through item monitors like that unless he scrolls the screen far away first like in Marble Garden. The screen catches up twice as fast in Sandopolis 2 as it does in Marble Garden 1, so I don't know if it's possible there, and if it is possible I don't know if sacrificing the speed shoes would be worth it. Probably I tried it already and couldn't get it to work, but I can't remember. - Lava Reef 1.5: I don't think Sonic can glitch into the floor there without being invincible, though it would be very nice if he could... Well, this could be one more reason for someone to try a Hyper Sonic run. I voted (I'm sure you can guess what) by the way.

Posted: 12/9/2006 12:36 AM

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nitsuja

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AKA wrote:

EDIT: Is it possible to activate the debug mode while doing the level select becuase it doesn't seem to work for me.

Try this: Up, Down, Left, Right, Right, C, C, C, C, Up, Down, Left, Right, A (keep holding A until the level has faded in), Start, ..., Start.

Posted: 12/8/2006 8:06 PM
(Edited: 12/20/2006 6:41 PM)

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nitsuja

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It is already possible to do that. Options > Video > Text display options... > In Game. EDIT: Sorry, that should work, but it doesn't, because the AVI read frame is getting called too early.

erokky wrote:

I've noticed that I can't take screenshots while in pause mode. I have managed to take a screenshot by pressing screenshot + frame advance at the same time. Is this a problem I'm experiencing independently?

That is just how VBA was originally designed to take screenshots, by queueing the screenshot command until the next frame. I don't know if it would be hard to change, but it probably isn't.

Posted: 12/8/2006 7:35 PM
(Edited: 12/8/2006 9:01 PM)

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nitsuja

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Pu7o wrote:

I remember I used to do a trick where Knuckles and Tails ended up constantly hitting each other (since they were occupying the same position), but I don't remember exactly how it was. (And it was on real time, so it should be easy to do on a TAS)

Well try making a video of it or something. I already spent a few hours trying to get that to work with no success, and knowing that someone else thinks it's possible (but doesn't know how) doesn't change anything.

JXQ wrote:

Launch Base 2's idea would give up some game time, but it still would look cooler than the alternative (I would think).

It would save about 2 seconds of real time, if it can be completely optimized. It would lose 46-48 seconds of in-game time. It does look cooler (and it would unquestionably be the most difficult-to-optimize trick in the entire run), but it also looks like a big mistake to get such a poor time on that act.

JXQ wrote:

Or find a way to skip the boss and have Tails stay behind and kill it so the clock still stops. :)

It might be possible, but if it is it's slower. 7 invulnerability periods of that boss > 2 seconds. EDIT: Also, Tails needs to be on the top part of the level many screenfuls above, and can't possibly fly down fast enough.

Posted: 12/7/2006 3:44 AM

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nitsuja

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Lardarse wrote:

And I still don't understand the Hydrocity 2 death...

You can't skip straight to the boss if you don't die first, unless you start that act via level select. So it saves both real time and in-game time to die there. I think it has to do with the cutscene at the start of that act, which you'll notice doesn't happen the second time.

upthorn wrote:

The Z80 gets the instruction to play the ring monitor sound at the same time it gets the instruction to load the mushroom hill 2 music

Is that the only place it's possible to do that? Also, I've been wondering why the notes in Icecap zone (and nowhere else) sometimes linger strangely, even when it is playing the Super music instead of that zone's normal music.

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