^If we still have 1 extra chu, why not use it to hover over to the fence instead of jumping. If it takes 2 chus to do that, we can use a bomb to hover to the low fence instead.
As for arrow damage to Twinmold, here's how it works
Arrows--2 damage to both
Fire Arrows--2 damage to Red, 6 damage to Blue
Ice Arrows--6 damage to Red, 2 damage to Blue
Light Arrows--4 damage to both
They both have 20 HP.
um, I think you may have miscalculated there
it costs 80r to refill bombchus. 4 refills means 320r, plus the bomb bag makes 370r. Unless you're suggesting we're going to be filling up bombs at the shop, too.
Ah, yes, that...someone at SDA already beat you to the punch. You'll also notice I forgot to include actually getting the Great Fairy Sword after Stone Tower.
3 cycles is impossible. The Blast Mask, Madame Aroma's Bottle, and the Postman's Hat are entirely mutually exclusive. You can thank the Kafei/Anju quest for that.
I know about the Bottle and Postmans hat. You need the letter for both. But what has the Blast mask to do with kafeis quest?
-The bunny hood is generally inferior to supersliding and Goron rolling, and it takes up a C-button. I'd do it after protecting the ranch, but Kamaro's Mask is only available at night. For the record, the Bunny hood moves at half the speed of Goron Rolling/Supersliding.
Yeah I just thought it might be good to have it for short distances where we can't use either of these two. And you would only need about 4 explosives to get in there when it's not open...
-yeah, the exceedingly long trading cutscenes mean hovering is the best option. Besides, I don't have any paper to spare from the Kafei/Anju quest, so I'm stuck using Title deeds.
I just meant when you are through with the whole trading sequenz you don't have any use for the last deed anymore and you could use that to get the toilet HP. But if it takes to long hovering is ofcourse the better idea.
-If you get the Blast Mask, Sakon won't try to sell the Big Bomb Bag to the Curiosity shop on the night of the second day, meaning Kafei doesn't follow him back to his hideout, meaning you can't complete the Sun's Mask quest. Nintendo programmed that surprisingly well, and I haven't found a way around it.
-It's not that I can't get in, it's that I haven't the time. Unless you expect us to get to the ranch with enough time to do it before the aliens, there's no time afterwards, since I have to go get Kamaro's Mask. I need the Bremen Mask for it, so I can't do it on the first ranch trip, either.
-for the record, there is no last deed. The Scrub in Ikana pays you 200r for the Ocean Title Deed.
Hmm my first question about the 100% route is couldn't you do it in 3 cycles. Not that I would want to see a 3 cycle route at any cost, but I've just seen the SDA 100% run and there was a lot of time forewarding in the last two cycles and I feel that it will automatically get tighter if you were to do it in 3 cycles total. In a TAS it should be possible...
3 cycles is impossible. The Blast Mask, Madame Aroma's Bottle, and the Postman's Hat are entirely mutually exclusive. You can thank the Kafei/Anju quest for that.
Btw. are you doing all this while time is slowed down or in real time?
I think it should all be doable without slowing down time. The third cycle might need it, but the second should be able to do without it, and the fourth doesn't want it.
A few other things:
- Why don't you wrong warp glitch to the lens of truth cave? It seems much faster than going there the normal way. If it was good enough for any%, it should be more than good enough for 100%.
- You get the bunny ears pretty late. Couldn't those help moving faster? You are at the farm at the night of the first day anyway. Now the game where you get them is closed at the time, but you can hover in there and it shouldn't even take that much explosives...
- Since you are going to need a LOT of money in a 100% it might be a good idea to do Stone Tower as your first temple. Once you have the light arrows you can shoot stuff for money on your way. Since you are probably going to use the giants mask for the twinmold battle it shouldn't be that big of a problem.
- If you get the HP from the toilet hand at the end of the trade cycle you don't have to get the moon tear twice. Might save some time. (oh unless you are not doing the trading and hover to the heart pieces...)
-This is the best time to get Kamaro's Mask, and the nearest generic pit is still the one in S. Termina Field. Plus I wanted to have enough chus to get the HP in Goron Village.
-The bunny hood is generally inferior to supersliding and Goron rolling, and it takes up a C-button. I'd do it after protecting the ranch, but Kamaro's Mask is only available at night. For the record, the Bunny hood moves at half the speed of Goron Rolling/Supersliding.
-Stone Tower cannot come before Snowhead. Fire Arrows are needed for the stray fairies. Admittedly, Stone Tower could be put earlier in the run, but I'd like to have the Gilded Sword by then, and we need something to do to pass the time on cycle 4 anyways.
-yeah, the exceedingly long trading cutscenes mean hovering is the best option. Besides, I don't have any paper to spare from the Kafei/Anju quest, so I'm stuck using Title deeds.
I remember you saying that the main time wasting element of the 100% was the Kafei quest. I can't quite take an in-depth look at the route at the moment, but did you solve this dilemma?
Sort of. There's nothing you can do about the Kafei/Anju Quest, but it's not too hard to work around.
The most annoying thing was the Seahorse HP, which forced getting the NWBN on the same segment as the temples. Otherwise, most of the route worked out rather well.
I've done both Snowhead hovers, the hover in GBT (not the boss key skip; the short one), and the hover in Woodfall (again, the short one).
All of them take 3 explosives (2 bombs/1 chu) minimum, except the second Snowhead hover which takes an extra.
For the first one in snowhead could you maybe get by with two megaflips, going like this: http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/snowheadflip.jpg ?
Since we are doing it directly after the ffww and the song skip we'll need to save every chu we can and two flips there would only need two bombs. (there are at least 2 bomb drops in the temple, one on the route the other a little out of the way, so those shouldn't be a big problem).
I've done both Snowhead hovers, the hover in GBT (not the boss key skip; the short one), and the hover in Woodfall (again, the short one).
All of them take 3 explosives (2 bombs/1 chu) minimum, except the second Snowhead hover which takes an extra. That's the hover that gets us to the boss door, mind you.
I haven't done any testing on GBT's boss key skip or the fairy fountain warps, so you should probably test those. I realize the fairy fountains will probably only have a savings of 1 explosive, but I'd still like a confirmed number. That should be all the hovering we need to test, as obviously the ranch, the GB fence, and the Deku Palace haven't changed.
You checked the Woodfall boss key skip, right? We'll probably just use chus for it, but never hurts to try these things.
petrie, did you take into consideration how much slower it is to do only superflips over a gap, instead of one superflip and the rest as bombchu hovers? :/
Yes, of course. You lose ~8 bomb timers this way, which is ~30s, while a trip to the bomb shop is ~50s at least. Plus, you don't have to hit the owl statue, and hovering with chus still takes a small amount of time. Really, I'm certain it works out in favor of not refilling.
I'm going to figure out the minimum explosives we need for various areas, then get back to you on a revised route.
So, unless I'm mistaken, the minimum explosive requirement for Stone Tower area is...
Hover across gap: 4 bomb, 3 chu
Hover across gap: 4 bomb, 3 chu
Hover from Owl: 3 bomb, 2 chu
First Sun Block: 3 bomb, 3 chu
Other Sun Block: 2 bomb, 3 chu
Updraft Room: 1 bomb
Inverted Tower: 1 bomb, 1 chu
Angle Long Jump: 1 bomb
Boss Key Skip: 6 bomb, 5 chu
Total: 25 bomb, 20 chu
EDIT: Yeah, I'm getting at least a 20s time saving for not refilling chus. We'll need a bomb pickup to do it, but there's one by the Owl statue, as well as ones from the Nejirons in the temple.
Both gaps on the way up can be crossed with 4 mega hovers. The first might be able to be done with 3 if you start on the hookshot tower. In any case, that makes 6 chus for scaling the exterior, 9 needed for the temple, and 5 left over. That means one of the Sun Blocks will need to use a bomb to hover. Other than that, we should be all good.
Btw. if you could get oob in the bosskey room it should be a really short hover. Granted you could just get the key. But this way you could be able to skip the battle for the key (which will be longer since we don't hace the goron mask), don't have to go back and you don't need the fire arrows...
We need the Hookshot to skip the miniboss.
Also are the fire arrows going to get used against twinmold? If not it might be a good idea to do Stone Tower immediately after getting the hookshot. Then, if we discover that we need more money, we could just shoot stuff with Light Arrows...
Yes they are. And I don't see any advantage to doing Stone Tower immediately after getting the Hookshot.
Hehe, nice.
Anyways, we should probably get around to testing how many bombchus this saves. The important places to test are...
-Boss Key skips
-Stone Tower exterior
-Great Fairy warps
oh, and with my new ultimate GBT trick, skipping the zora mask would save about 10-15 minutes now ;)
Getting the Hookshot takes quite a long time without the Zora Mask, and the Zora Mask is rather handy. Plus, we'd still need a way to get the small key in STT. Skipping those other things would save time, but I'm not so sure about skipping the Zora Mask itself.
MrGrunz wrote:
what SL did was just a frame perfect recoil flip + a jump and it really gives you more distance, but there are nearly no places to use it ;)
Yes, after testing it seems what SL did is just a recoil flip/jump, and not anything new.
But testing revealed something else. For the first time, I actually got the Mega Flip effect in MM. It travels the exact same distance as a recoil flip, but Link completes his backflip while doing it. So, naturally, the first thing to check is if you can do it out of hover. The answer is...yes.
Mega Flip out of Hover
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBLDOn9olxM
EDIT: Also, Mega Hovering
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EMMyAjQx-Y
As long as you have the ISG on, a bomb hitting your shield will cause you to hover. This, unforunately, prevents us from doing most of the recoil stuff in midair. OoT is lucky; they can still megaflip out of hover.
That is really a shame. MM would need it so much more than OoT.
And I guess if you turn ISG off in midair, you fall down...
You do fall down, but you could always time it so that you shield a bomb immediately after (which is what we do with the Zora Mask thing). The problem is that when you deactivate the glitch in midair, you immediately fall at maximum speed. And to get an idea of how fast maximum falling speed is, a superslide has a speed of 27. Your max falling speed is 30. Putting on the Zora Mask nicely resets your speed to 0, which is why we do it (changing direction is an added bonus).
As long as you have the ISG on, a bomb hitting your shield will cause you to hover. This, unforunately, prevents us from doing most of the recoil stuff in midair. OoT is lucky; they can still megaflip out of hover.
But I should really look into that superflip thing SL did again. Maybe it's just a trick of the eye, but it seems to be going higher/farther than a regular recoil flip. Will test later.
my advice: the runners put hours and hours of dedication into the run. so in my opinion it'd be no big deal at all to sacrifice one hour of your time to set up an easy to use linux distribution like ubuntu (www.ubuntu.com), spend another hour to get used to it and then go on with the run.
I think you may have misunderstood what the issue is. Recorded reset works on Windows, but not Linux. Thus, Linux users would have to get Windows to watch the run, not the other way around. That or go into Mupen and fix the problem, of course.
As for the rest of this discussion, I'm going to have to concur with the preceding n/c.
Nice catch with that NCT cutscene. Always good to skip those first-time entrance scenes. In fact, I think the new route skips all of the following entrance cutscenes.
-Ikana Canyon
-Southern Swamp
-Mountain Village
-Snowhead
-North Clock Town
-South Clock Town
Also, 2000 frames? O_o I thought it'd be closer than that. I suppose the dancing cutscene and the day-change cutscene really add up, though.
