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I think, 100% run weak point is Bonus Stages (with emerald in end). Any optimization will bring a lot of frames :). But it's really hard to optimize such puzzle.
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Dooty wrote:
It's 00:47.70 seconds faster than the previous one and we can finally start the final version.
It's 00:57.24 faster, because 50 fps (use 2862@50 syntax)
Oh! 3.063 speed everywhere! But you sometimes don't use turn back to gain speed...
Dat spikes jump!!!!
Additional combo pick up, nice :)
I think, you can beat skeleton platform frequently to gain more speed (I'm noot sure).
But, DAT BOSS RUN :S. I didn't even know that there is some window between his block states. Awesome.
If you are ready to start final run, then I'll ask you to make mansion until first door.
There is many circumstances why I want to split there... (rotating leafs, tap dance, and magnetic push tests...)
Send it in private.
Final run: it will be long way........
Cool. I didn't notice about that zip. You can save 10 frames using vertical push when you going down after "breaking ship" trick. (I have gmv)
Dooty wrote:
It is faster, but I'm not sure if it was the trick or optimizations which saved time.
I hope it is. Watching bugs is more fun than common runs.
By the way... Your run is already 47 seconds ahead.
Also, may be in Muddrake Mayhem part 2 is faster to transform in start than in the end of part 1.
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Dooty wrote:
when the ship is breaking up you can kinda pass through the floor right
at the start of part two, but it's a lot slower than taking the normal path.
I tried it, but I it's not worked for me. May be, I tried not hard enough.
Dooty wrote:
Pressing the opposite direction underwater makes you go faster, did you notice it? Weird.
When? If you hold in direction of your speed - nothing wierd (same behavior as when you run from floor)
About second part, there are three routes:
(Thanks to feos for map)
It would be good to check all of them. I have choosen green one. Because there is no fish, and barrels faster than jumps I think.
To make perfect frog fight, you need to hit him as fast as you can when he is offscreen, and check that red rect shows up only for one frame. But it can be just impossible :)
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O_o that first zip is just amazing!
o_O those vertical pushes! I didn't thought about it. It saves so much time.
But your frog boss not good... but for sketch it's enough.
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I want to make final level by level. May be in private (if you want surprises)
Way of doing:
1 level someone runs
1 level other approve or improvement
if was improvement that other approve
2 level someone runs
....
Approve means that you don't know how to improve.
Any other suggestions?
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Script updated: now it shows lantern bug bricks creation and "last platform" message.
I'm looking into jump system again, now for "magnetic" effect. Did you noticed that sometimes after jump you pushed on floor right to the corner? Now I know how it happens.
All floors has boundary:
[-4,+4] px for horizontal
[+4,-8] px for vertical (+4 from down side, -8 from up side)
So, we can abuse not vertical only, but horizontal too. You abuse vertical push when you select jump height with duration of pressing jump.
To abuse horizontal push, you need to jump as close as possible to margin -4. So, if you jump -3.5 before floor, you'll move +3.5 additional pixels.
Also, when I was making skull boss runs, I have found that there are two different types of shoots in air in both directions (vertical/horizontal).
First: shoots once. Holding B (shoot) he won't shoot more.
Second: shoots many times. Holding B (shoot) he continue shooting.
Type is changed when you change direction.
And, I noticed, that you can do fast shoot after jump.
Vertical: jump and DON'T HOLD UP before you need to shoot. And when you want to shoot press Up and Shoot at same frame. Hold Up until he shoot.
Horizontal: same, but release UP right after you press it.
It can be very useful in water level, when you need to change direction of shoots.
And, more: when you shoot up in jump turning in opposite side in some frames only changes sign of speed! You can avoid slowdown.
About Muddrakes Boss: I don't know how many frames you spend to pick up red bug there, but if it takes more than 60 frames, then we can improve that. Beating boss without red bugs is not so hard, because it is TAS :D. May be it's even possible to beat last wave perfect too (without red bugs).
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Dooty wrote:
I hope you're just kidding, are you?
Nope. For me, better quality/sampling rate/technology not the same thing like better music.
I don't like that:
1) Allmost all of PC tracks with intro and outro. It is really bad for Mojo Mansion and Flying Duckman music. In genesis version they looped. It's my favorite songs from this game. Third place - Mojo stronghold.
2) Stupid cheering voices in background (some crowd "Maui! Maui!" and something like "Hou... Hou..." I don't know)
There is only two tracks where almost nothing anoying me: Realm of Dead, and Duckhood.
Mojo stronghold... Choir?! And too soft. It is final battle. It must be at top of intense! :) In genesis version there is fearsome loud background.
I totally agree with those who claim: SNES < PC < GENESIS
By the way...
First: I got working Cold Shadow under win7
Second: It was without music, but I have found solution.
Win7 version. Comming soon :D
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Razor_ua wrote:
Too bad there are no way to TAS Windows version of this game for now (which has better graphics and music)
I don't think that music is better. Music just different.
Hmm, I tried many times to install Cold Shadow in virtual machine under Win95, but in Bochs, Qemu, Virtual Box, VMWare - music does not work. They don't emulate CD audio.
In DosBox I have installed Win95 but I can't mount CD....
So, I spent a lot of time to try.
I know only one solution that works: DosBox with Windows 3.11.
It is about 15 MBytes + CD.
Music works, but little glitchy: it plays next song for a while after end of song.
But I didn't try Virtual PC from Microsoft. Because when you download it... you need fill in the form :D
Also, PC version is kind of fast. Get 50 fps used in [SMD] (Europe) and speed up into 60 - you'll get PC or Brazilian versions speed. It is not good. But it is choice of developers.
Try debug mode
http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/197875-maui-mallard-in-cold-shadow/cheats
And see how in boss fight in Flying duckman boat animation looks.
Or, how muddrakes fast tighten their pants.
Also, I don't know how it works under Virtual PC and Win95, but in DosBox, speed depends on cycles, and I don't know how to setup "normal" speed.
I have full walkthrough of PC version on my twitch channel. It has my bad english commentary :\
By the way... Almost all glitches from this run - works in PC version. It has almost same game mechanics. I know only one that does not work: zip in walls in Ninja Grounds 2.
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Dooty wrote:
(the speed increase)
It is just my own observation...
Best:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11899541353310548
WHY?!
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11899554802455166
But, I think first two shoots I can take from "WHY?!"
When I was making it, I many times remade whole boss run from first two shoots, to make better positioning, but nope.... He is shy guy.
I think, it will be better to not use last double shoot. Just need to use shoot one by one. It was really hard to make 3 double hits, but as we can see - it possible :D
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Dooty wrote:
1) The first hit depends on Donald's position. I mean, a left or right approach is different.
There is always two half of screen, he will fly according half that you stay in. (half is NOT just by X coord)
Dooty wrote:
2) You can only hit him in the face. I mean, you can't kick his ass.
But your projectiles can slip through ass :D (each one frame collisions turned off)
Dooty wrote:
3) He loves to go off screen. I mean, he is some kind of shy guy.
:D
r57shell wrote:
in air you can get 3.063 speed
0.063 it is 0:10 in hex. when you press same direction that you fly, your X speed increased by 0.125 it is 0:20 in hex. There is cap 3.000 (3:00), but if you get 2.938 (2:F0) you can increase by 0.125 (0:20) and get 3.063 (3:10).
We must abuse it through all levels, because it can be useful in any jumps.
jump: 3.000 start speed.
release direction for one frame: 2.938
hold direction again: 3.063.
Profit: 1 pixel each 16 frames.
Dooty wrote:
Don't know how it happened there, I was just having trouble to do the clip glitch.
Where?
Dooty wrote:
But most important; we need to add lots of playaround, don't forget it!
Problem that is playaround can be only:
1) shoots in air. but if you land during animation, you will loose speed.
2) change weapon. you can use it almost any time, but it is not so fun.
3) any crazy stuff when you not busy: there are very few places to do that.
Take a look:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11888984651109733
About "projectiles can slip through ass" just watch with sync turned on in script.
Spent some hours...
Edit: another attempt
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11891090037126920
more optimized. 30 frames before limit = one bad shot + time to transform.
But, if we can shot him 2 bullets at once, it would be much faster. (both bullets hits at same time, and his life must be 8, otherwise it's useless)
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Script Updated: http://pastebin.com/GK5Wnjxv
Now it shows red rect when weapon will check collision.
And, you know...
It's amazing! First boss. How did you do that?
I don't know how to improve it. May be you can shoot him once with blue&red combo or in end... or yellow&red... But, it is just awesome.
We need to improve Mansion next time... there is some mistakes.
It was fun to see how you slip through that wall in lava level. (when you fall between two walls after taking red bugs)
Also, you don't use turn backwards to gain speed bug, that I discribed a long time ago. It makes me sad. And you wait too much before shoot skull boss in first state.
Hmm, and in air you can get 3.063 speed :) interesting.
Keep going!
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Dooty wrote:
Using a combo, the same used on boss one, seems to be the best way to keep damaging the boss constantly.
There is goal: beat level as fast as you can. So, you can pick more weapons to finish him faster, or few weapon to rich him fast. But, I don't think that you can beat second and third state faster than ultimate weapon (lets call it so? :) ).
About first state: I didn't try to shoot him. May be it's faster... But I think, it's possible to keep him close whole time, to beat him with ninja. I didn't spend lot of time to test it.
Dooty wrote:
I'm working at Test of Duckhood at the moment, so it will take a while untill I can finish the comparison run.
Any WIP would be interesting :)
ATM we have:
1) spider
3) skull
5) frog
7) shaman
bosses improvable.
Other bosses - we already reached maximum speed in my opinion.
2) ninjas: +- 4 seconds, so I don't think is possible.
4) muddrakes: it can be faster not pick up red bug and shoot them with simple weapon. Also, it can be more entertainment.
6) flying duckman: It's fastest way to kill him with this bug.
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Script Updated. Ninja Grounds Boss info added.
First 4 battles are perfect in your previous run.
All battles are +- 4 seconds precision.
1,2,3,4 battles: 4 seconds
5,6 battles: 8 seconds (but I don't think that 4 seconds is possible)
7 battle: 12 seconds
Total: 44 seconds
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At last, I have done my sketch
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11794815928063263
Last level added, and last boss beaten.
I'm not sure about routes, but it shows main ideas/tricks.
Don't rush, it is just for you to have all info/routes.
Found one trick in last level part 1: your speed x saved when you leave water zone.
I need to make more invistigations:
1) Second boss (time when next ninja summons).
2) Last boss (conditions: flame/kick).
3) Look into Frog boss platforms creation
4) Player movement system, to make sure that there is nothing like "hold ^v to make something faster" :)))
But, now I'm in break. Now it's your turn :) Don't rush.
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I know it. I have plan to make sketch, then wait yours sketch, and then... do final run.
I would like to be Quality Control :D of final run :) I want to check all levels to make sure that there is no possible improvements.
I don't want to see any "Obsoleted" in near future :).
Edit: Added one level
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11765151404487087
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Do you watch without sound?
Because, it must be tap dance! Not just "infinite flying". And, we need some beat. Or... irish dance. Tap vs Irish dance youtube
You can see it in my mansion run, but it was rerecorded to much less fun than was before, when I LOL...
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Second jump in ninja grounds:
Almost all checks in game works with pixels only. Hooks hits, ground stand too. After jump in that place you always have 322 Y pixel, but subpixel "rerolled".
Before jump you have 322.891, after jump 322.00, for Y coordinate it is higher than 322.891, and you can jump higher to reach Y pixel that you need to hit hook.
So, to avoid jump, you can "reroll" y subpixel in any other place before this jump.
For example - just wait 1 frame more, before hiting hook below.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11673381951478501
One frame much better than whole jump :D
"Latern" bug in Mansion:
Indeed, you are right! There is 8 cases, depending on framecounter.
Script updated: now it show message which case was triggered.
I don't know which case is faster. Latern moves randomly, according to algorithm. Algorithm depends on case, and platforms appears according X coordinate of "latern". So, assuming that, you can trigger case, then look frame when last platform appears, and make decisions.
Dooty wrote:
Actually, you can manipulate only the last platform, not all of them.
No, they all depends on case, but case depends only on time of picking bug. They all manipulated at once.
Dooty wrote:
talking about platforms, in Ninja Training Grounds, your script say; platform 1,2 or 3 what does it mean?
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Dooty wrote:
I just finished putting together everything we found so far
Awesome!
Dooty wrote:
sorry about the Mud Drake fight, but again, it's just a comparison movie so we can have something to beat
It was plan to beat him in such way (red + white combo).
It can be faster if and only if you can reach enemy count = 0 when my script shows left = 0 and timer 0:1.
I have done Mansion without boss myself. Just to compare...
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11663665321120928
And, somewhere my segments better than yours. (in previous WIP, without all tricks)
Added totems pos into script, for tracking them offscreen.
Ok, then I'll add some levels into this run that you posted now.
Edit: reviewing your movie, some questions
1) Last bomb does not hit first boss?
2) Why you jump twice at frame 6620? How this bug works? "door" already open.
By the way... Awesome shaman in ninja grounds timing. And, now with horizontal abusing ok.
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Script updated again: spikes, rope, mud, bamboo, lava, warp, end of level now showed.
And, you know?)
I was already thinking about autoscroll level Realm of Dead part 2. I was already run through it already like crazy, to test, if it ends in top, but nope.
And today, I have found with script, end of level at its top!
Here:
You will found it only if you suicide bomber :D
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Script Updates:
1) Messages timeout in different way, so they dissapear even after save/load
2) Turned on buttons highlight.
3) Added Muddrake Mayhem boss info/status, to manipulate him. To kill him fast, keep enemy count < 4 when frames timer goes to 0. Win check: (left == -1) and enemy count = 0.
4) Added the Sacrifice of Maui boss prediction curves. Green - fly trajectory without hit, if you stand still. White - fly trajectory after hit, and if you stay still. (stand still means X,Y is same).
Also:
1) Abuse collisions push! It's very useful, because its speed = 16. As you know, ninja run speed = 8.
2) I don't recomend to use sync option in my script for TASing, it's made only for watching or recording.
3) Hidden buttons works too... It's not bug...
4) Me was wrong. You can't hit if invincible time != 0, but in some frames, inv time decreased before your hit, and sometimes you can hit when my script show inv time = 1.
Dooty wrote:
by the by, your TASing skills are getting better by the minute! You're making this old man proud :)
My TASing skills depends on goal.
When I say not frame precise: means only route.
When I say nothing: attempt to get frame precise - but without too much effort.
I don't know what I say when I got frame precise :D.
(Thanks to feos for map)
It would be good to check all of them. I have choosen green one. Because there is no fish, and barrels faster than jumps I think.
To make perfect frog fight, you need to hit him as fast as you can when he is offscreen, and check that red rect shows up only for one frame. But it can be just impossible :)
You will found it only if you suicide bomber :D