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I will probably just call the branch "Wondermail" to differentiate it - we like to keep it fairly concise. Quicksaving is not something we would put in the branch, since we don't have any rules against it.
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So I'm realizing this is a weird case, and I'd like some opinions, because the rules are a little unclear on this.
For those who are not familiar with this game, I'll explain Wondermail. It's essentially a password system where you can put a code in and get a custom quest. Nintendo used to distribute some officially sanctioned ones, but nowadays the Wondermail system has been reverse engineered and codes can be custom generated to have specific goals in specific dungeons with specific rewards. This system is essentially used to get endgame-level items very early in the run with very easy quests. I want to make this clear: no major skips are possible with this, the game progression is more or less normal, just with better items. I guess the only exception to this is that you get a Chestnut, which is a consumable food item (not a key item, you can get an infinite number of these) you would normally need to farm from the bottom floor of a specific dungeon that you've already completed, so I don't think getting this is really a skip that squanders any content.
Here's where the rules don't really address using codes to get items like this:
Cheat codes and passwords are only allowed to access harder difficulties and/or bonus content, including cosmetic improvements.
You are not allowed to skip levels with passwords. Passwords are allowed for bonus content, such as extra levels not normally playable in-game, harder difficulties, or cosmetic improvements.
I guess this could be considered "bonus content", but the bonus content is potentially infinite and it also makes the main quest shorter. The old rules were actually little more lenient on this:
Using in-game codes or passwords at the start of a game to unlock a special game mode, character, level sets, or otherwise play the game in some unusual way is allowed.
Personally, I like that approach better. This run does not skip any big parts of the game and the flexibility of Wondermail can offer some really interesting strategies, so I think it's a fun branch. I wouldn't say that this could be in Standard, but I think it would be cool to have it as a "Wondermail" branch in Moons if people think it's entertaining enough. It is eligible for Playground, at the very least.
Just curious what everyone thinks about this.
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You don't need to press anything to get from the credits to the reunion scene. If you stop input on 346992, you end on this screen:
Currently there is an "A" input during the above screen (on frame 363795), and the end stays on this screen:
Again, it's up to you, I just feel like the first one is perfectly fine while also lowering the time to better reflect how long the run takes.
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I've replaced the movie file and cut some blank frames off the end. andy120195, this is up to you, but I would recommend ending the input at frame 346992, which is enough to trigger the credits (the publisher will keep recording past this, don't worry). It would stop on the "END" screen and I feel like it would be more appropriate - I'm not sure I see the point of pressing A on the "END" screen and getting to the first line of the postgame dialogue. If you want to replace it, let me know.
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Syncs for me on ScummVM 2.0.0 - a bit of a hassle to install it on Ubuntu 21.10, but it's doable. I should note that if you want to run it from the original disk version instead of the Steam version, you need to first open ScummVM natively and install Myst using these files for the Masterpiece Edition, and then run scummvm in libTAS with the command-line option "myst-win".
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I'm not opposed to allowing modified game files or bad dumps to a certain extent - the movie should still be syncable somehow, which this one is. I think the goal is probably appropriate for Playground as well.
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GMP, can you please edit the description with some instructions for how you set up your config, like I have for my submissions? Me and fsvgm know how to set this up, but people in the future might not.
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Thanks for updating the description, I booted the movie with no flash.bin and "Prevent writing to disk" disabled, stopped the movie at the checksum error, then re-enabled "Prevent writing to disk" and ran the movie again. Everything synced fine.
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Do you have some instructions for how to produce a working flash.bin? It's recommended to start without one. I got lucky and used one I had lying around and the movie synced anyway, so it's not going to require a verification movie or anything. I assume you started your config outside of libTAS to make it, if you can provide some basic instructions on how to make a working one from scratch it would help a lot.
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After some more thought, I think this run is fine to obsolete the Windows run. We allow using older versions that are faster because of unfixed bugs, so we should allow the unusual case where newer versions introduce mechanics which make the runs faster as well. Comparing the gameplay segments here is like comparing apples and oranges, since they start player movement from completely different points, and the starting location in this run is only viable because the cutscene is skippable. I think the only difference we should discount here is the loading time at the beginning, which only takes up a portion of the time save.
There's still the matter of what to name this. There is already a "game end glitch" branch on 2.3, and this very obviously should not fall under 2.0 anymore. Maybe just calling it "Glitchrunner" would be the cleanest way to do this?
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Do you want to move forward with the judging or make a new movie? I was thinking of saving this for Playground, but the policies for it aren't set yet and I don't know how it would fit knowing there is a large improvement.
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Sorry this is taking a while, but this is a doozy of a situation. I just need some help understanding the gameplay improvements. Here's where I've seen the time saves so far:
Almost no loading time to start the game - this saves around 4-5 seconds
Opening cutscene is skipped (because you could not save + quit during cutscenes in 2.0), saves around 4 seconds as you claimed
The gameplay portion - which I consider the beginning of player control to the next save + quit - does appear to be SLIGHTLY faster than the Windows run (yes, I did include the time for the deathwarp). I'm not sure how to accurately time this since I could never get Hourglass to work.
From the gameplay portion to the ending dialogue is about 4 seconds faster - could you explain why? Is this something that was possible in 2.0?
Let me know if my understanding of anything is wrong.
There's also the cluster about what to call this run. We already have a 2.3 "game end glitch" run, but this would obsolete the 2.0 "game end glitch" run just due to its similarities. "glitchrunner game end glitch"? Ay ay ay.
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libTAS 1.4.3 has been released! The major bugs involving Ruffle are now fixed and you should be able to TAS anything that Ruffle can run. Some people have already made some full TASes and have reported no desync issues, so this is extremely encouraging. I've made an emulator resource page on Ruffle with some instructions on how to use it. It can't run every game, but it's easily the best hope we have for Flash TASing right now.
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If there's a good reason for needing different configurations, and instructions plus a verification movie for the setup can be provided (like we have for the other configs), then we'll probably allow it. I don't personally have any plans to make new ones but anybody can get one approved if they do it correctly.
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So it's clear to me that this will not be obsoleting the branchless run. While both of these runs don't use save + quit, ultimately this submission still utilizes the same game ending glitch (using game state manipulation to reach the credits) as the currently published "game end glitch" run, just in a less efficient way.
However, that doesn't necessarily mean it should be rejected. This run uses a completely different route from the other published runs and has some new glitchy content. Compare for yourself:
Game end glitchBranchless
The entertainment ratings and feedback for this run are also really good. Would anybody mind if this movie was put into Moons as a separate branch? Also, what on earth would we call the branch? "No save + quit" is also a restriction for the branchless run, so that wouldn't work. The branch could even be based on the game version, since the published run's GEG was patched and can't be done the same way on this version.
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Looks pretty accurate now with what I mentioned on Discord - and yes, hard drives can't be swapped and CDs are read only. Also, flash.bin should be mentioned as one of the files. This is the flash memory of the computer. If flash.bin is not present, it's created from the contents of the ROM files and some parameters from the system. The programs only store one flash.bin for each chipset, not one for each config. For sync purposes we have all movies start with flash.bin deleted, although we could use it if it's created from a verification movie.
86box and PCem work about the same internally, they just organize things a little differently.
NVR is stored in the nvr folder, exactly the same for both programs.
ROMs are organized better for 86box. Each type of hardware has its own folder, and each piece of hardware has its own subfolder.
flash.bin is renamed after the firmware (the name of the folder the machine ROMs are in) and is put in the nvr folder.
One big weakness of 86box is that it only supports one configuration at a time. The format of the config file is quite a bit different from PCem. The configuration screen is about the same for most tabs, but 86box gets a lot more in-depth with ports and storage controllers.
PCem has a global config file that mainly contains info about the paths for different types of files and window positioning, 86box does not seem to store this anywhere.
86box is constantly being worked on and has more hardware options, so it's probably the best choice going forward.
For loading the actual game files, it might be nice to have a built-in image creator to make CDs like JPC-rr has. This would standardize the way we make them instead of all of us using different software. If that's too much to ask, we can discuss what else to use.
I probably missed some things, if I think of something else I'll post it.
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Awesome, I've been hoping somebody would finish this. With a little bit of trickery I was able to convert my N+ movie to run on the new build. I need to go through the run and adjust for some slightly different loading times, but from what I'm seeing so far, the gameplay segments do not need to be resynced! I'll finish resyncing and do the remaining episodes once the DS core is officially released.
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TASing with Windows 95 in PCem works perfectly fine, feel free to make a TAS with it right now and it will keep syncing for you as long as you don't alter any of the files. The main problem as feos explained is that we will not be able to sync it, so it shouldn't be submitted. We don't have a good method for creating identical Windows installations yet and PCem is pretty sensitive about hard drive differences. Wine may actually end up being the better option for Win 9x games.
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CoolHandMike wrote:
Also on that uno game board on the last two throws, could you instead throw against wall closest to the respective white grouping instead of having to cross to the other side? Around 8:07
For the left grouping, you need to hit it from the right side to combine the two groups of blocks. If you bounce it off the left wall you'd need to do it in two throws, since they don't count as grouped if they're only diagonally adjacent.
Currently there is an "A" input during the above screen (on frame 363795), and the end stays on this screen:
Again, it's up to you, I just feel like the first one is perfectly fine while also lowering the time to better reflect how long the run takes.
Also syncs for me!
I can confirm this syncs (on nightly 22-02-16). Congrats on the first Flash submission!