TASVideos

I did it just cuz I thought it would be interesting to see, I'm not out to prove any point about how cool TASing is. I think both SDA movies and movies on this site are equally really cool, and I don't think either one counts are more 'pure' gaming than the other. If anything this little excercise shows that stats cannot replace a 'gut feeling' estimate of how much time can be saved given by people on this site who have a lot of experience doing TASes. I think so many factors go into it that only by playing the game and internalizing all of its particulars can someone estimate much time can be saved. After all, who can explain why the 2 zeldas on the list are both exactly 34% faster, but the 2 megaman games are 20 and 47% just by looking at the stats alone? But the stats do give a rough benchmark for people to make their gut feeling estimates against.

Posted: 12/1/2005 7:02 PM

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tool23

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JQX is right, its more like a ratio rather than %, i'll edit that. The times are from SDA, I haven't looked at other sites yet (are there a lot of games done on other sites that aren't represented here?). I guess if the times are calculated differently on SDA than here, the numbers are more of an estimation. Some games I went by in-game clock, but most I just took the time given on the website. I took Dacicus' suggestion into account and left out the zelda glitches. I think things causing differences might be the number of hi-precicion moves (Battletoads, Metroid), and manipulation of luck (RPGs).

Posted: 12/1/2005 2:56 AM
(Edited: 5/21/2006 3:49 PM)

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tool23

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Taken from this site and SDA except for sonic games. Sonic games are compared by adding total level times together, and console stats are from TSC. Numbers in seconds. _________________________console -- TAS -- difference NES Battletoads warp 1p ____1452 -- 808 -- 80% NES Battletoads no-warp 1p _2201 -- 1460 -- 51% NES Bionic commando ________1100 -- 846 -- 30% NES Castlevania _____________793 -- 701 -- 13% NES Castlevania 2 _________2925 -- 1956 -- 50% NES Castlevania 3 Alcuard __1787 -- 1557 -- 15% NES Castlevania 3 Sypha ___1975 -- 1712 -- 15% NES Chip 'n dale 2p __________840 -- 548 -- 53% NES Contra _________________685 -- 574 -- 19% NES Duck tales _______________621 -- 491 -- 26% NES Gauntlet _______________1213 -- 745 -- 63% NES Ironswd: WizWar2 ________780 -- 509 -- 53% NES Jaws ____________________288 -- 259 -- 11% NES Kid Icarus ______________2024 -- 1436 -- 41% NES Lolo2 _________________1754 -- 1451 -- 21% NES Marble madness ________193 -- 171 -- 13% NES MM2 __________________1839 -- 1535 -- 20% NES MM3 __________________2708 -- 1913 -- 42% NES MM4 __________________3048 -- 2111 -- 44% NES MM5 __________________3084 -- 1984 -- 55% NES Metroid 100% _________3143 -- 2503 -- 26% NES Rygar no-warp ________1830 -- 1227 -- 49% NES SMB warps US____________306 -- 300 -- 2% NES SMB warpless US_______1278 -- 1138 -- 12% NES SMB2 warps US_________582 -- 474 -- 23% NES SMB 2 warpless US _____1593 -- 1214 -- 31% NES SMB3 warps _____________671 -- 635 -- 6% NES TMNT ___________________1172 -- 1085 -- 8% NES Who framed RR __________365 -- 308 -- 19% NES Zelda1 _______________2044 -- 1529 -- 34% NES Zelda2 noglitch _______4330 -- 3239 -- 34% SNES Aladdin _____________1103 -- 1014 -- 9% SNES Contra 3 _____________1020 -- 820 -- 24% SNES DKC 101%______________3000 -- 2845 -- 5% SNES FF MQ _________________9860 -- 7778 -- 27% SNES MM7 __________________ 3569 -- 2335 -- 53% SNES MMX __________________ 2170 -- 1844 -- 18% SNES MMX3 _________________2679 -- 2295 -- 17% SNES SMRPG _______________14220 -- 9626 -- 48% SNES SMW fastest ____________656 -- 636 -- 3% SNES SMW 100% _____________5430 -- 5018 -- 8% SNES SMW2 _________________7094 -- 5937 -- 19% SNES TMNT4 ________________ 1351 -- 1135 -- 19% SNES Metroid (in-game time) 36 -- 27 -- 33% SNES Metroid (100%) 55 -- 39 -- 41% SNES Zelda Alttp (no glitch fast)5987 -- 4816 -- 24% GEN Gunstar Heroes _________2475 -- 1979 -- 25% GEN Quackshot _____________1920 -- 1404 -- 37% GEN Sonic 1 ________________868 -- 762 -- 14% GEN Sonic 2 ________________1076 -- 823 -- 31% SGB Pokemon Blue __________9600 -- 6667 -- 44% GBA Metroid Fusion __________3000 -- 2520 -- 19% GBA Metroid ZM _____________2742 -- 2156 -- 27% GBA Sonic Advance 2 _________899 -- 637 -- 41% N64 Mario 16*_______________1187 -- 987 -- 20% Average 28% STDEV 17% So expect a 11 - 45 % difference. Smallest difference - SMB (warps). Biggest difference - NES Battletoads warp 1p Not included: NES Metroid best time ______1115 -- 566 -- 97% NES Zelda 2nd Quest _______2683 -- 1756 -- 53% (The TAS uses up + A and the SDA runs don't) NES Deadly Towers _______2590 -- 920 -- 182% (I took this out to make the numbers look prettier. I believe the two runs use the same route, and there aren't any big timesaving glitches used in the TAS, its just that the precision of the TAS allows for that much time to be saved on this game.) link to file (I have StarOffice, but it should work on XL) I'll keep updating it as new movies come out.

Posted: 12/1/2005 1:37 AM

Post subject: speedrun vs. TAS stats

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tool23

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I don't know if this has been mentioned in another thread somewhere, but I was thinking it might be interesting to do a statistical comparison between console runs and TASes so that when doing runs of games that have never been done before we could have an estimate as to how much time difference should be expected between the two types of runs. Then maybe type of game could be figured in - mario is 2% faster when TASed (300 seconds vs. 306 s), and zelda is 34% faster (1529 s vs. 2044 s).

Posted: 11/19/2005 4:30 AM

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tool23

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good idea! ... i just went and tried to see if i could kill him, but skipping the protean ring and the bombs means i had an extra fireball to fry him with! solves that problem. the protean ring isn't used after that anyway.

Posted: 11/19/2005 3:38 AM

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tool23

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Yea, I think its impossible to get by that troll without using the bombs, because he's as fast as the wizard and comes straight for him no matter where the wizard moves. but i'll test it some more

Posted: 11/19/2005 12:27 AM

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tool23

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testrun Here's a testrun to show the route I'm planning to take and some strategies. The fights aren't optimized, and I did it mostly at 20% speed. It's about 15 min. The part where you are on a barrel was actually easier to do at normal speed. This is going to be a hard game to optimize, because the controls are weird, and there is some randomness in the way the enemies move. So please just comment on my route and any huge mistakes that you noticed, or ways to make it more interesting. I don't get the best ending here (the one where Anna comes and rescues you), because that would require getting her ring on the magic carpet stage. I just ignore her in this run, and get rescued by a goblin in the end. Edit - some things to test: I'm not sure if the sword in level 2 actually does anything. Supposedly it increases agility, but i haven't tested it. Also, the walkthrough on gamefaqs says some of the trolls only take 2 slashes to kill, but for me its more like 5-6. Am I not doing the fighting right?

Posted: 11/17/2005 11:27 PM

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tool23

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I don't think I'll need to rest, because the wizard guy is healed after each level. The problem will be in finding out if it's quicker to take some hits in battle. There are a lot of factors to consider : When the bad guy challenges you you can press A, which will make the battle start earlier, and you will get a first hit (stab), but then he will hit you (i haven't been able to dodge that one yet) If you don't press anything the battle will start a little later, and you can dodge his first swing, then counter-attack, but then he will hit you, which I don't know if that can be dodged or not. Another option is to dodge a few of his swings until he gets tired, then when you counter he won't be fast enough, and you can land a series of blows. But it seems like some hits are just impossible to dodge, and it seems like sometimes when you dodge you will automatically counter-attack. If anyone else has any experience with this game, let me know! Edit - level 1 - perhaps frying the second goblin is just as fast as avoiding him. the fireball is useless after that level 2 - ideally i could plant the spores and escape without having to kill the goblins, but i haven't experimented enough to know if its possible

Posted: 11/17/2005 8:54 PM

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tool23

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I thought someone did Dick Tracy, but thought it was too boring to be submitted or something.

Posted: 11/17/2005 6:36 AM

Post subject: Immortal

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tool23

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The fighting system on this version is a lot different from the NES one, it seems like the only things you can do is left/right slash, which you can do just by pushing left or right, and stab, which you just push A for. Is there a way to dodge? It seems like its all about timing - one you can land a hit, if you alternate left/right at the right speed you can sit there and wail on the other guy, but he can do the same to you. i'm sure by slowing it down it's easy, but i haven't found a way at normal speed to land an early hit yet. Edit: Ok, I think pushing left/right + A makes you dodge, but i haven't gotton it working consistenly yet. It's hard to experiment when the other guy starts bashing you immediately, and once he starts he won't stop till he's tired it seems.

Posted: 11/15/2005 11:00 PM

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tool23

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ok, i'll give it a crack. or should i say i'll TASer it? (i know, there's no excuse for that one)

Posted: 11/15/2005 4:18 AM

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tool23

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level1 I fooled around with this today. Does anyone know much about this game? There are a lot of choices, so finding a minimal path might be tricky. The walkthrough on gamefaqs says that in the fighting the jab isn't as powerful as the slash, but it's also 4 frames quicker. Also the first guy can be killed with 6 jabs or 6 slashes, so the difference must not be that big. but i guess the enemies keep getting tougher, so it might add up in the end.

Posted: 11/1/2005 6:53 AM

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tool23

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Ok, well i'll get back to work on this starting from the beginning. I guess I won't cancel the submission in case other people want to see it or have suggestions.

Posted: 11/1/2005 2:52 AM

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tool23

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Thanks for the tip Ferret Warlord... unfortunately I didn't use that on any of the fights :( That means a great deal of time can be saved. I'm not sure why moving diagonally through the item menus would be faster, though, could you explain it? For me it takes 7 frames on the fast-moving item menu going both right-down-right, and right-right-down now. I think I just wasn't using the fastest way to move through those menus... the method I was using throughout this movie takes 9 frames. Well, I guess the only thing left standing is my route, so I won't make any changes until I get feedback on that.

Posted: 10/28/2005 3:11 PM

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tool23

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Forgive me if this has already been mentioned or considered, but I just wanted to make clear: if you have 3 inputs for 5 frames isnt it 8^5 input combinations rather than 3^5?

Posted: 10/23/2005 4:33 AM

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tool23

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Even though a noob and a great gamer might be able to come up with the same results, i think gaming skills are still really important in TASing. isnt gaming skill just the ability to intuitively know what to do in a certain situation without having to do endless trial and error like Bisqbot? sure, fast reactions are also part of it, but i think good gamers have insights into the game that make them good at TASing even if they are doing it frame by frame (I wouldnt know, however ;) ). i think for really tough games the advantage would add up.

Posted: 10/21/2005 4:18 AM

Post subject: Any good stories of how you ruined a cartridge?

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tool23

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I had a cocker spaniel that would kick his feet really fast when he got excited, and one day just happened to be lying in front of the NES when something incited the furious leg-kicking. Unfortunately my Legend of Zelda never played quite right after that. We prayed to the video game gods, tried repeatedly to put it in the machine in just the right way, but to no avail. There was nothing to do but let that second quest go unfinished, and forever wonder if there was a third... It was also rumored that one of my friend's cartridges was ruined by this guy named Tyrone licking it when he had a mouthful of fried chicken, and that if you put the cartridge in the machine just right a piece of chicken would appear on the screen. I could never figure out how that worked.

Posted: 10/19/2005 3:34 PM

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tool23

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Yea, there are only 5 blows of the whistle (one used initially to get benny, three for shortcuts, and one when blowing the tunnel to toontown that can't be avoided), and to get more would mean buying them at the store, which I don't think is worth the time it would save in toontown. Actually I am halfway through a run of Princess Tomato now! I agree that it won't be very interesting to watch... i just am doing it because I like the game. So maybe I can get to working on improving this run after i'm done with that. I didn't start a thread on it since I figured nobody would want to see it, or that there aren't any secrets or glitches..

Posted: 10/9/2005 6:01 PM

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tool23

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Fihlevin - one could say the same with theAxeman's Final Fantasy, that it takes no dexterity in gameplay whatsoever, but the amazing part is how much planning he put into it and how much time that saved on the run. I'm sure I put in nowhere near as much time into this as in theAxeman's FF, and haven't exhausted all the possibilities for item placements, but I did try out about 10 or so scenarios before deciding on this one. One I didn't try though was the Gag Factory will one, and I hope to get to that soon.

Posted: 10/5/2005 4:08 PM

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tool23

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yea, even though he was hit by doom, his power meter stayed full. the only way for it to go down is when you stop moving and start again. I'm pretty sure the shortcut I took in toontown is the fastest one, the one after the baseball isnt as big, at least with the item placement i had. I'm all for still trying to improve this run, but I feel that I've submitted it too many times and people will get tired of voting for it. Would it be better to post new ones in the discussion section?

Posted: 10/5/2005 2:46 PM

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tool23

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it looks interesting, was it made using a console? it looks like it runs a little faster than the emulator. The item layout looks good - the gag factory will and toon town wills are easy to get, its just that the will in the north takes a hike to get to. It seemed like the use of the dip cannon in this movie was faster than mine, but I was using it every other frame, so I dont know how that could be. One think worth trying might be to not use the first whistle and walk over to get benny, then use it later in toontown to bypass that first loop of road. I could also try to go and buy a second whistle in the store, but I don't know if either of those would make up for the time saved.

Posted: 10/5/2005 4:45 AM

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tool23

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hmm, I used fceu-left+right, if that makes any difference...

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