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alden wrote:
mmbossman wrote:
Sure, someone will win, but who gives a shit?
I thought this god damn site wasn't supposed to be about competition but entertainment.
It is not entertaining watching else someone play myst, though. Especially when they already know the solution to the overall puzzle.
Also, if you read carefully, that is exactly what mmbossman is saying.
To paraphrase: "There will be a winner, but this site isn't about competition so that doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not it is boring to watch."
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Satoryu wrote:
Look, I was already dissatisfied with Rockman L. I didn't think the level design, or any of the design choices for that matter (the Robot Masters looked horrible), was anything spectacular. But this hack is just bad. The stages are really boring and amateur. They look like things a 10 year old can make in Powered Up's level editor.
I only watched the first two videos, and have no intention of watching the rest. I'll abstain from voting because of that. But my vote would be No either way.
You don't have to watch a whole movie before voting no. If the first 5 minutes are so bad you don't want to continue, it is still reasonable to vote no.
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Slowking wrote:
snorlax wrote:
4. Even if you decided to make your own site just so you could do your run on the J version, this site will go on. Someone else will pick up the Ocarina of Time run because it's just too popular of a game with too much potential to just have a run sit there with clear improvements.
1. I wouldn't make my own site to use the J rom, I would make my own site because the rules on this site seem to be worth about as much as dog shit...
2. Yeah ofcourse someone else would make a great OoT run, because in the past 4 years so many people have done so. *rofl*
Well, there've been three submitted. Which is an excellent rate for a game of this length. The first one was rejected because it was visibly less optimized than the original, even leaving in failed attempts to start superslides, the second was rejected because it was still slower than an existing real time run. To the best of my knowledge, neither of those is the case here.
Additionally, perhaps if this one is accepted it will provide some motivation to the people who know the game better to produce some real results, by sending the message that a TAS which has been finished inherently better than a TAS that hasn't. And even if it doesn't, and discourages them from ever finishing the runs that they otherwise might never have finished anyway, the site is immediately improved by the obsoletion of the 4 year old one. So it is win/win for the site.
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Bablo wrote:
The tas shows some interesting (new) glitches, but isn't very well executed. It looks quite unoptimized most of the time. Also the game is sort of uninteresting.
No.
Are you sure you're in the right thread? This sounds like a zelda-based comment.
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Slowking wrote:
And yeah I know that text speed doesn't figure into the judging but it does in the perception of the (very often spoken about) general viewer. It's just not fair for the guys making the next run to compete against a J rom with a U rom.
Okay, this is starting to make sense, but the average viewer will still prefer to watch a run of the game in a language that they understand rather than a language they don't. And English is more widely spoken than Japanese, which is the whole reason for the rule.
In other words: the language will factor in to the average viewer's opinion in the sense that they will always prefer an English version, even if some time is lost due to text.
I apologize for calling you deliberately obtuse.
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Slowking wrote:
adelikat wrote:
I guess I should clear up these points:
1) This movie will not be rejected due to using the J ROM (that isn't to say it won't be rejected but that it will not be a factor)
2) If published a new run is still preferred to be a U ROM choice. Text has nothing to do with the improvements. Thus a U ROM can be a slower time than this provided that it is proven to be as a result of the text (which is on the author to prove).
3) A publication will not set a precedent for a J ROM for this movie or any other. Rather be an exception to the rule due to extreme circumstances.
These issues are non-debatable.
Also, people, please use some common sense.
So basically we could just replace all rules with "what the admins want that moment, so shut the fuck up". We have a word for that in german. It's called "Willkür".
How can this not set a precedent for using the jap rom when the rules say it does? It would be unfair for every TAS coming after it if they aren't allowed to use it. Sure a few experts on this site will know why the next TAS isn't as fast but the general public will just think it's sloppy or something. That's not fair to the people investing time in TASing this game.
No. Jesus Fucking Christ. While the rules state that a change of rom version is to be avoided unless the new version has obvious benefits, they also state that English text is always to be preferred, thus rendering English text an obvious benefit in accordance with the rules.
THE RULES DO NOT SAY THAT ACCEPTANCE OF A JAPANESE ROM SETS PERMANENT PREFERENCE FOR THAT LANGUAGE.
THE RULES SAY THAT A RUN USING JAPANESE LANGUAGE IS ALWAYS TO BE CONSIDERED AS A NEGATIVE WHEN DETERMINING WHETHER THE RUN SHOULD BE ACCEPTED.
THE RULES SAY THAT ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS ALWAYS TO BE PREFERRED EXCEPT IN THE CASE WHERE THERE ARE GLITCHES POSSIBLE ON OTHER VERSIONS THAT CANNOT BE PERFORMED IN THE ENGLISH VERSIONS.
Now, the acceptance of this movie on the J version is not in accordance with this, but there are a variety of extenuating circumstances to consider as to why an exception should be allowed in this one instance.
If you still refuse to believe that selection of Japanese in one instance does not set a permanent and unchangeable preference against the English version, I will have to accuse you of being deliberately obtuse.
Femke wrote:
...it seems like the fact that there is 5+ minutes of improvement on an hour long game is a fair basis to vote No.
...
I do realize that this improves the current run by something like 1h 30m, but I don't think that is reason enough to publish this one.
Considering that unpublication is never an option, I think that 1h 30m of actual improvement vastly outweighs 5m of possible but unrealized improvement. I cannot imagine any logically consistent arguement thought which would reject this over an expected time improvement of ~5m (which is route improvement, by the way, not so much movement optimization), while saying that it is fine for the current version to stay up despite 1h 30m of demonstrated improvement.
Now, I can concieve of an arguement based on the relative level of optimization of each movie's routes and tricks. Guanobowl may not have incorporated all the tricks possible, but the play was very tight and little if any motion or time was wasted, so it is entirely possible that this doesn't come anywhere near that movie's standard of play (as was the case of the JNX movie). I don't know, I haven't watched it yet.
However, you have to consider any vote against this run as a vote for keeping the current run indefinitely, since there is no projected timeline for the completion of the hypothetical optimal improvement. So any arguement for or against the acceptance of this movie should come from only of comparison between this movie and the published one (and possibly the rejected one in between).
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On the topic of Genesis vs SNES on hardware merits:
Genesis had a much faster processor, and a separate CPU for sound code to run on, allowing for more complicated game engines. Additionally, the genesis was easier to program for because it had 32-bit address lines so programmers never had to worry about memory paging. (Well, except for 64KB boundaries during VDP-controlled DMA copies to VRAM, but that issue rarely came up during development, and was trivial to fix without even involving programmers in most cases.)
Also the CPU had a ton more registers (8 data and 8 address registers) than the SNES's (1 Data and 3 Address), so you could work on more than one value at a time without having to juggle stuff back and forth between RAM and the arithmetic register.
The SNES, though, had much more graphical capability. 256 colors per scanline, translucency, and a full 16-bit master palette to genesis' 61 colors per scanline, "either it is drawn or it isn't" transparency, and 512 color master palette. The SNES graphics chip also had a ton more features, like the ability to program it to mass-copy values from a pre-set location to its graphics registers in hardware at the end of every line rendered. The SNES just wins this hands down. Even with the 32X (which lets you treat the screen as a bitmap instead of a tilemap, and brings a full 16-bit palette to bear), and SegaCD (which had special hardware to deform graphics similarly to the common use of SNES' mode 7) the SNES is graphically superior in many respects.
In sound, though, they are incomparable. Comparing Genesis' sound hardware to SNES' is like comparing apples to carrots. Yes they are both food, yes they both have flavors, but they are so dissimilar in all other aspects that "better" can't really enter into the equation. Personally, I don't like carrots much, and I prefer the output timbre of the Genesis' synth unit, but there's nothing here that can really be argued. Both sound systems provided tons of flexibility and room for creativity, in totally different ways.
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
When anyone says a genesis game had good music, it's always Sonic or Streets of Rage.... or some other game from sega.
Fuckin' Ecco the Dolphin, man (mostlythesequel, TidesofTime). And have you heard Alisia Dragoon? They both sound better than any Sonic game, and neither was developed by Sega. not that you'll care, you poorly disguised trollFlygon wrote:
No one ever bothered to use the GEMS sound driver as anything more than a MIDI to Mega Drive converter (Though, there are exceptions). Makes me sort of wonder why it was the standard North American sound driver, ease of use put aside.
Ease of use is just it. With GEMS you could plug a keyboard in via midi interface and just record. No effort required. Every other sound driver forces devs to program all the notes and voices by hand, which is slow and difficult, and therefore costs more money.
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When you don't make any decisions for yourself, you are denying your status as a person.
So take some personal responsibility and choose for yourself what you want to be called on the internet.
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Thinking about it, though, since all the other screenshots on the genesis page are 320x224 or 320x240, it might look weird on the tables.
This is the only con I can think of.
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Flygon wrote:
Can you give the frame numbers? Because the filtering on them is giving me an absolute headache.
I mean, we let 256*224 screenshots for NES games, correct? Why not do the exact same thing on Mega Drive games?
Not all genesis games are at that resolution. Most are at 320*224.
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marzojr wrote:
It doesn't seem to be the tile boundary thing: in the any% run, the x position is 5001:227 when nitsuja starts the spindash. I think that I will try making a random input generator and leaving it to run until I get the spindash...
Edit: forgot to mention: this is with Tails trying to generate as much lag as possible.
Sonic's width is 9 (from center), which means that at 5001, his leftmost ground-detection hotspot is at 4992 -- an exact multiple of 128.
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Warp wrote:
Derakon wrote:
Warp wrote:
Bisqwit wrote:
DaTeL237 wrote:
repeat twice after me: "repeat twice after me"
Taking the pedantic-aggressive attitude, you get: "twice after me repeat twice after me."
I think that the answer ignores the punctuation, and is thus incorrect.
Even then you'd get "repeat twice after me repeat twice after me", which loses the colon and quotation marks needed to make a valid "program".
Thinking about it, yeah, you are right. The output is not identical to the original, even if the original is interpreted properly.
If you go by the rules for palindromes, punctuation and spacing are discarded in the comparison, so the output would satisfy the requirements.
Of course, this is something that has always bothered me about palindromes. Reversing "Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog" produces "goh angasal a ,m'I imalas a gnah og", which is clearly not the same sentence.
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Actually, the original Quine was not a program at all, but a paradoxical statement in English, by a philosopher (coincidentally, named Willard Quine) who studied indirect self-reference extensively.
The statement: “Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation” yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation.
I'm not sure exactly how computer scientists got the idea of writing a program that displays its own source code from that statement, but it makes intuitive sense to me that they did.
Edit:
I realize that this is not what swedishmartin was looking for, so to answer his request, I submit:
"Quote this."
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From what I've seen of the old PSX Spyro games, even an any% TAS is going to require a high level of familiarity with the game to be anything like decently optimized.
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marzojr wrote:
This post is especially intended for Nitsuja or Upthorn or whoever else knows how it is done: in Flying Battery 1, time index 0:27::41 (frame 58548 of the published any% run), a spindash is performed while under the antigravity glitch; normally, Sonic goes out of balance. I am trying to replicate it but failing miserably, and am looking for pointers.
Only Nitsuja has done this, I suspect it has something to do with lag that only exists when Tails is present, but I am in no way certain.
How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks.
