Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
zwataketa wrote:
Is the purpose of running backwards to catch the camera up to you and make it follow you more resulting in a faster time?
Nope. The reason is that in order to pass through the spikes later, you need to have X speed at least 4700. And such a speed is extremely hard to gain. So I go back to get additional acceleration from the slope. But do not worry — it’s possible to jump up much earlier and save even more time. I will do it as soon as I have time.
TASing this really takes a lot of time, and the reason is that Amy is a painfully hard character for perfect positioning. She’s very easy for braking, but price of easiness of braking is complexity of positioning. The bad side of having great speed is that movements become very hard for optimizing. For example, if your speed is 4000 subpixels per frame, it means that you skip 3998 possible positions for making a jump, and some of them could be much better than others. When you are playing Sonic, Tails or Knuckles, you can start rolling at different positions. Rolling on the slopes accelerates you a bit, and (which is actually more important) allows you to adjust sequence of your positions. But when you are Amy, you do not have such ability. You should either manage your position by letting some frames with empty input (which has a bad side — slightly decreases your speed), or (which is better, but extremely hard as well) managing position of spin dash. The problem with those 2 loops is that you have to perform a sequence of jumps instead of one single jump.
That’s why I actually optimize only the first loop. I noticed: if my X speed on the flat ground after the first loop is more than ~4200, I will be able to reach 4700 after the second loop even if I do not make any jumps in it. Till now the best speed I ever gained from those loops with Amy is only about 5000 (while in the current published run of this game using Sonic it’s around 5600).
So, the answer on your question about going back is that I would not be able to gain enough speed if I did not go back, and would loose much time later. But, as I’ve said, I am going to remake that run and avoid going back — by jumping earlier (which will require extreme amount of efforts to make a good jump as well).
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Is the purpose of running backwards to catch the camera up to you and make it follow you more resulting in a faster time?
Nope. The reason is that in order to pass through the spikes later, you need to have X speed at least 4700. And such a speed is extremely hard to gain. So I go back to get additional acceleration from the slope. But do not worry — it’s possible to jump up much earlier and save even more time. I will do it as soon as I have time.
TASing this really takes a lot of time, and the reason is that Amy is a painfully hard character for perfect positioning. She’s very easy for braking, but price of easiness of braking is complexity of positioning. The bad side of having great speed is that movements become very hard for optimizing. For example, if your speed is 4000 subpixels per frame, it means that you skip 3998 possible positions for making a jump, and some of them could be much better than others. When you are playing Sonic, Tails or Knuckles, you can start rolling at different positions. Rolling on the slopes accelerates you a bit, and (which is actually more important) allows you to adjust sequence of your positions. But when you are Amy, you do not have such ability. You should either manage your position by letting some frames with empty input (which has a bad side — slightly decreases your speed), or (which is better, but extremely hard as well) managing position of spin dash. The problem with those 2 loops is that you have to perform a sequence of jumps instead of one single jump.
That’s why I actually optimize only the first loop. I noticed: if my X speed on the flat ground after the first loop is more than ~4200, I will be able to reach 4700 after the second loop even if I do not make any jumps in it. Till now the best speed I ever gained from those loops with Amy is only about 5000 (while in the current published run of this game using Sonic it’s around 5600).
So, the answer on your question about going back is that I would not be able to gain enough speed if I did not go back, and would loose much time later. But, as I’ve said, I am going to remake that run and avoid going back — by jumping earlier (which will require extreme amount of efforts to make a good jump as well).
I thought making the camera scroll to you would make it faster because it wouldn't have to follow you in the end result making the time for it to catch up way slower than if it always followed you. Not that it'll help me in the zipless run :P
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
as marzojr described earlier, it's not an easy task. I think it's better to ask nitsuja and Upthorn about it, the developers of the "camera hack" feature (if i'm not wrong). And even if they agree, they will probably have to cooperate with marzojr, the author of the hack...
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
Sorry for answerring a question that was not addressed to me, but I think because making it possible to play 3 characters at once requires you to heavilly change memory layout.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
@WST: Amy + Cream + Tikal is a team in the works, but I am having little time for hacking. More closer to fruition, but still a ways off for the same reason, is a team Chaotix.
@feeuzz22: In some cases, to try and eliminate lag: I ported a few things from S3&K, some from Chaotix, all so I could try to reduce lag in a few places. The end result is that the OST addresses have shifted around. As for the other values, they were shifted so I could consolidate large amounts of RAM for other purposes.
Joined: 10/6/2011
Posts: 1690
Location: RU · ID · AM
marzojr, great news! I really hope that you make it keeping in mind that it will be TASed (so 2 buttons for spin dash are better than one), and also hope that Amy’s abilities will not much differ from those she has in E-122-Psi’s hacks. You may consider this as a feature request from me, as from an Amy TASer :)
zwataketa, when answerring you about optimizing the loops in Amy@S2, I forgot to mention that even if you find a “perfect” position for making a jump inside a loop, it may be useless because there is high possibility that you will glitch through the wall and stuck, instead of accelerating.
S3&A [Amy amy%] improvement (with Evil_3D & kaan55) — currently in SPZ2
my TAS channel · If I ever come into your dream, I’ll be riding an eggship :)
marzojr, great news! I really hope that you make it keeping in mind that it will be TASed (so 2 buttons for spin dash are better than one), and also hope that Amy’s abilities will not much differ from those she has in E-122-Psi’s hacks. You may consider this as a feature request from me, as from an Amy TASer :)
zwataketa, when answerring you about optimizing the loops in Amy@S2, I forgot to mention that even if you find a “perfect” position for making a jump inside a loop, it may be useless because there is high possibility that you will glitch through the wall and stuck, instead of accelerating.
Well, um, okay, but my question was about the camera, not the loops. And you already answered it.
Of course. I intend to release a version of my HUD script with support for SCH, I just want to make sure I won't be changing the RAM layout anymore first.
See how uncontrollable that is? Thats why i plan to only do it once in the amy run, cause its "not too broken in the bad way" controls and it saves time to only do it once. Amy has an arsenal of other moves to help her out, anyways.
