AnS
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xxNKxx wrote:
I think the problem at respawn enemies time. In my preview video on upper you'll see I must wait it long time after use last grenade...
Yes, the problem is that there can only be 6 enemy tanks on screen. So you must pick the Grenade at the very frame when the 5th tank becomes vulnerable, in order to let the "Respawn Timer" proceed without delays. Do you use Memory Watch tool? 1. In FCEUX menu go to Tools -> Memory Watch... 2. In this window there's big table that you can fill with addresses/names. Enter "x82" to the first text field (address) and type the name "Respawn Timer" to the Name field near it. 3. Now you'll see the Value of this variable. Play the movie and see how the value always counts down from 1E to zero. When it hits zero, it stops, and a new enemy tank may appear on screen. Notice how it stays at zero when you're moving towards the Grenade while there are all 6 enemy tanks on screen - this is when you're losing time. You must avoid this situation. Ideally, the "Respawn Timer" should be counting down all the time, without delays.
feos wrote:
Mass kills are so fun you can even include it as a speed/entertainment tradeoff, since having so much action will most likely get enjoyed and go to Moons.
I doubt that repeating this tactic for 35 levels will be enjoyable. Since he is still learning, it's better to make "fast as possible" version first.
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too professinal... :( But thanks very much :)
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xxNKxx wrote:
too professinal... :( But thanks very much :)
Uh....it's not exactly "professional". In fact, alot of TAS's rely on monitoring the game's memory to know where things are. :P
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oh my god! I thought only need play to stage 48 and it will end game same example video. But It's still continue now. Omg, when I can stop this run, have tired :( Here's my demo played to stage 49: http://youtu.be/bdYewua_3_w
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xxNKxx wrote:
oh my god! I thought only need play to stage 48 and it will end game same example video. But It's still continue now. Omg, when I can stop this run, have tired :( Here's my demo played to stage 49: http://youtu.be/bdYewua_3_w
If you had done some research about the game, you'll find that it never ends.
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I know I know some games have never end, example: tetris, the legend of kage,etc but it still can make TAS, then I want ask with Battle City, where the point for TAS ?
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AnS
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xxNKxx wrote:
too professinal... :(
If you plan to ever learn TASing beyond its basics, you have to start using Memory Watch. Just do exactly what I wrote (steps 1-2-3) and you will be able to see the Respawn Timer, and thus you'll optimize your movie with better knowledge.
xxNKxx wrote:
Omg, when I can stop this run, have tired :(
If you're tired than take a break.
xxNKxx wrote:
Here's my demo played to stage 49: http://youtu.be/bdYewua_3_w
Actually, that was pretty good. I liked the entertainment choices. Not sure about speed though. It looked like at the beginning of several stages you could start destroying enemies faster (thus reducing the initial delay of Respawn Timer). And we have not even started talking about certain movement trick.
jlun2 wrote:
If you had done some research about the game, you'll find that it never ends.
Well, after finishing the 2nd loop (stages 36-70) the game difficulty resets to the same level as the first loop (stages 1-35), so beating stage 70 can be considered the end of the game.
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AnS wrote:
Actually, that was pretty good. I liked the entertainment choices. Not sure about speed though. It looked like at the beginning of several stages you could start destroying enemies faster (thus reducing the initial delay of Respawn Timer). And we have not even started talking about certain movement trick.
Yes, this's not fastest way, because I need time for shoot to walls. The fastest way is shoot enemies only, like stage 38 and 40 in my preview video. It's make easy more than entertainment way
AnS wrote:
Well, after finishing the 2nd loop (stages 36-70) the game difficulty resets to the same level as the first loop (stages 1-35), so beating stage 70 can be considered the end of the game.
my god... :( But thanks your info :)
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I'm wondering where you got the idea that the game would be considered completed after lvl 49? The first post in this thread says that its a loops of 1-35 stage. The 2nd loop (36-70) being the same stage but with faster respawn. Or so I think, haven't checked myself, but that's what I got from reading this thread. I'm not even sure how publishable a 35-69 (or 70) run would be. If the 2nd loop is considered the hardest difficulty, why start on 35 and not 36 and keep the loop order.
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Yes, it's my fault, I have mistake understood. Hard difficulty is nothing with Tool Assisted. You can see my preview video in stahe 38 and 40, just need feew seconds for beat that stages. Ok. the big problems with me now in every stage just are luck controls and make tactics. Like all you here saw before, luck depend from everything in game. Control exactly items and where it'll born not easy and lost many time. With 9 stages in my preview video, I have played in near a week with 14-16 hours in everyday About luck control, sometime I can't take exactly item or it's not my way (tried many ways) then I must back before shoot the special tank, change the tactic for shoot it, and try luck control again About the tactic, when start a new stage, I must think a tactic for 2 my tanks for what they need do. But with enemies, they have change AI depend from actions of 2 my tanks. Then I must think a new tactic when AI changed, how to can make best in my run and sill need shoot to walls If just speed run, it'll easy for me very much, don't need luck control or think too much for tactics. I have feel I'm playing chess, not really shoot tanks game. That's why I have tired. With 9 stage made me this, now have left 22 stages, my god... I think I'll delay this until I have feel better. Or I'll try make new other with speed run only. Is it good ideas ?
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You must watch the address that the game uses to determine randomness. It will help you to know if you are getting the new value each time you try manipulating it or just some old values repeat.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Master of Puppets wrote:
If the 2nd loop is considered the hardest difficulty, why start on 35 and not 36 and keep the loop order.
The game only allows to choose levels 1-35.
xxNKxx wrote:
Then I must think a new tactic when AI changed, how to can make best in my run and sill need shoot to walls
Are you sure that shooting walls is entertaining? I don't think you should sacrifice time in order to shoot walls. You'd better aim for speed, and only add entertainment when it doesn't slow down your progress.
xxNKxx wrote:
If just speed run, it'll easy for me very much, don't need luck control or think too much for tactics. I have feel I'm playing chess, not really shoot tanks game.
TASing is always about tactics and strategies, so of course any game will resemble chess. In pure speed-oriented TAS you also need to think about tactics.
xxNKxx wrote:
I think I'll delay this until I have feel better. Or I'll try make new other with speed run only. Is it good ideas ?
Yes.
feos wrote:
You must watch the address that the game uses to determine randomness. It will help you to know if you are getting the new value each time you try manipulating it or just some old values repeat.
Bad idea. Have you looked at the RNG listing? Even if at the end of the frame he sees a different value in Random_Lo address, this won't mean anything, because RNG depends on values from Zero Page (also, RNG can be called several times during the frame), so there's no way to guess intermediate values of Random_Lo by seeing the final value of Random_Lo. E.g., maybe the final value (at the end of the frame) remains the same after you've changed Input, but some previous values became different. Or vice versa, maybe the final value changes because of different actions, but intermediate values didn't change substantially. As I said, this RNG is incredibly uncommon (also providing a result which is extremely far from uniform distribution), so I don't think there's any conventional method to approach luck manipulation in this game, other than trial and error.
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AnS wrote:
Are you sure that shooting walls is entertaining? I don't think you should sacrifice time in order to shoot walls. You'd better aim for speed, and only add entertainment when it doesn't slow down your progress.
Some maps I have make some funny images: http://i.imgur.com/Puz4CkH.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ngBxb1e.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hyg5bkw.jpg Some maps I have clear all walls. (clear walls while speed run isn't easy) because I want make entertainment, I made this with fast speed I can do. I can make it faster (with every stages in my preview video, I can make faster around 50-100 frames) but then I'll don't have time to shoot walls, then sure my run look very poor and isn't entertainment I know some entertainment movie isn't fastest speed. Example: http://tasvideos.org/1240M.html Then with me why not "All clear" or something like that
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I'd say it's pretty entertaining. I've been lurking a bit, but I'm really digging this. The 2-player is amusing to watch with all the action, and all of the stuff that happens in the dead time is also quite amusing. Between funny pictures, quick full-level clears, bullet-on-bullet collision negations, incredibly fast tank destruction... Everything in this is looking wonderful so far. If you submitted this run as is, I would definitely vote yes, so keep up the good work and don't get discouraged.
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thanks :D
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AnS
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xxNKxx wrote:
Some maps I have make some funny images: http://i.imgur.com/Puz4CkH.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ngBxb1e.jpg http://i.imgur.com/hyg5bkw.jpg
Wow, those are pretty cool. I've only noticed the first one while watching the video, so I think you should try to emphasize those moments more. If screen fades almost immediately after you've finished constructing the image, this won't be noticed by viewers.
xxNKxx wrote:
Some maps I have clear all walls. (clear walls while speed run isn't easy)
It is not easy, but it also is not very entertaining (well, maybe for the first few times it is interesting, but not always). OK, now, have you noticed that you can move tanks slightly faster? If you turn to a side for 1 frame every several frames, your tank resets coordinates to the nearest multiple of 8. Look at the picture.
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There also such nice looking things as moving to one direction, turning for one frame and shooting to another, then turning back and resuming your way. In real time looks like it shoots from its side. Or from back. Also, all these weird movements when you reach some diagonal point not by LLLLLLLLLLLLUUUUUUUUUUUU, but by LULULULULULULULULULULULU or something. Was used here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQaHrPI56bE#t=424s
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Yes I knew that trick movent. I did it when I make turn on way, that's why in stage 35 and 36 I can faster with example video. Just didn't make it at all But if make this trick, you must note have a dead frame, it make tanks can't move or shoot
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AnS
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xxNKxx wrote:
Yes I knew that trick movent. I did it when I make turn on way, that's why in stage 35 and 36 I can faster with example video. Just didn't make it at all
This is TAS. You must use the trick to its full potential, not only where it was easy to use. If you are not using this trick everywhere, your movie is suboptimal, and anyone can beat it by simply applying this trick.
xxNKxx wrote:
But if make this trick, you must note have a dead frame, it make tanks can't move or shoot
You can't move tanks every fourth frame, but you can shoot at any frame. Here is useful Lua script.
Language: lua

function draw() -- Respawn Timer respawnTimer = memory.readbyteunsigned(0x82); respawnDelay = memory.readbyteunsigned(0x84); if (respawnTimer == 0) then gui.text(236, 16, respawnTimer, "red"); else if (respawnTimer == respawnDelay) then gui.text(236, 16, respawnTimer, "green"); else gui.text(236, 16, respawnTimer); end; end; -- Player 1 coordinates player1X = memory.readbyteunsigned(0x90); player1Y = memory.readbyteunsigned(0x98); gui.text(225, 117, "X=" .. player1X); gui.text(225, 125, "Y=" .. player1Y); -- Player 2 coordinates player2X = memory.readbyteunsigned(0x91); player2Y = memory.readbyteunsigned(0x99); gui.text(225, 180, "X=" .. player2X); gui.text(225, 188, "Y=" .. player2Y); -- "suppress movement" indicator frameCounter = memory.readbyteunsigned(0x0B); if (AND(frameCounter, 0x3) == 0x1) then gui.box(player1X - 4, player1Y - 4, player1X + 3, player1Y + 3, "#FF000080"); gui.box(player2X - 4, player2Y - 4, player2X + 3, player2Y + 3, "#FF000080"); end; end; emu.registerafter(draw);
If you don't know how to use Lua scripts, do this: 1. Download this file: http://shedevr.org.ru/temp/sound/battlecity.lua 2. In FCEUX: load "Battle City" ROM and then go to menu: File -> Lua -> New Lua Script Window 3. In this new window press "Browse" button and load "battlecity.lua" file 4. Press "Run" and continue TASing.
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Using code=battlecity.lua tag allows to download it right from the forum post.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
AnS
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feos wrote:
Using code=battlecity.lua tag allows to download it right from the forum post.
Yeah, but seeing as the guy keeps calling things "too professional" you can never be too specific.
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Thanks very much! Yes, too professional :P Ok it work!. I think now I'll back to Battle City and try make new one :)
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Ok here's my test in stage 1: http://youtu.be/Gf9fvLgVB-k Any ideas for better ?
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AnS
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xxNKxx wrote:
Ok here's my test in stage 1: http://youtu.be/Gf9fvLgVB-k
Wait, do you want to make TAS for 1st loop (stages 1-35) instead of 2nd loop (36-70)? The 1st loop is going to take you almost twice longer, because Respawn Delay is much longer (it decreases by 4 frames per every stage), so the movie is certainly going to be boring. I suggest to start from stage 35 and take 2nd loop, which is more action-packed.
xxNKxx wrote:
Any ideas for better ?
Once you've created the fastest-possible completion of the level, try to add entertainment without losing speed. For example, shoot those walls if you wish, but make sure that you don't lose frames (compare the new frame count to the frame count of the fastest completion).
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AnS wrote:
I suggest to start from stage 35 and take 2nd loop, which is more action-packed.
I don't think so. When my tanks have 3 stars then it'll boring like this. Only faster, because it can respawn maximum with 6 tanks
AnS wrote:
shoot those walls if you wish, but make sure that you don't lose frames (compare the new frame count to the frame count of the fastest completion).
I think don't have time enough. Maybe I need combos shoots+grenades. But I must think out some good tactics for this way
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