Submission Text Full Submission Page

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: Dolphin 3.0-305 (more-save-fixes)
  • Takes no damage
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Starts from a saved state or SRAM dtm [link no longer exists] or save file [link no longer exists]
  • Forgoes time-saving death
  • Uses hardest difficulty
  • Manipulates luck

Emulator details

  • Dual core off
  • Idle skipping off
  • Progressive scan on
  • DSP LLE recompiler (this requires you to dump files from a wii or gamecube. If you need help with this, or otherwise cannot do it, PM me, and i'll help).
It should sync on any version prior to 3.0-365

Comments

With no glitches, most of the run is pretty straight forward, but there are a few things worth mentioning:

Random encounters

There are 4 forced encounters that absolutely cannot be avoided. I use a smoke bomb for all but the last one, right before the final boss.
Other than those, there are two different ways the RNG is used to determine these. For the first, the rng is cycled constantly, and varying my movement in any way can manipulate these. In most cases this is done by holding back for 1 frame, or not pressing any direction for 1-3 frames. Despite how it looks, neither of these methods slow me down at all. Sometimes it is necessary to do other things, such as jumping or crouching though, which costs between 1 to 4 frames.
Other times however, encounters are locked in, as soon as the area is entered. Manipulating these can only be done prior to entering the area, and can be done in much the same way as before.
Unfortunately, there are often fights that cannot be avoided without wasting more time than it would take to simply fight them. And some times there are areas where although i can manipulate which enemies appear, and where, i cannot get past them entirely. Dealing with these situations was easily the hardest part of the entire run. There were many times where i made mistakes, but when i tried to go back and fix them, it ended up being slower, because i was then unable to avoid encounters that i had previously.

Taking damage

What? My max hp is 1 for the entire run. Well, turns out that doesn't matter. By holding A while in the air, right after taking damage, i can instantly recover any damage taken, so long as my weapon does not break.

Dynamic difficulty

Bosses have 2 HP bars. One main bar that decreases with each hit, and a secondary one that decreases when the first is depleted. The first has a set hp, based on level. The second however, decreases by different amounts, based on how fast you are killing it. This is why i stand around doing nothing for several seconds against a few bosses.

Dying to save time

There were two encounters i fought, that would have been faster to die to, then simply run past without a further fight. I chose not to do so, because it looked terrible, and the time saved was only around 0-3 seconds each.

Stage by stage comments

Act one

Nothing happens. I hold right to get to the boss, then mash A to kill it.

Act two

A short detour was necessary to do some quick shopping. The fight with the flying eyes was intentionally manipulated in to reach level 3, so i could equip a stronger blade for the boss. Otherwise, again, not much to talk about here. Note that neither fire nor poison does any damage in shigurui, which is how i jump into the fire without taking damage during the boss.

Act three

Huge ass detour here, to get to the shrine in Suruga. This saves quite a bit of time in the next act, by warping to it, rather than the previous shrine.
The boss can only be damaged while his blade is broken, otherwise he simply blocks all attacks. Because of this, i keep him in the air as long as possible, to prevent him from switching to a new one.

Act four

I ended up not needing the first bronze mirror i picked up, which cost me ~120 frames.

Act five

Here's an interesting fight. I repeatedly die, but don't actually die, and despite the limit of 2 jumps before landing, i jump around a dozen times at one point without touching the ground for nearly 30 seconds. Certain attacks, such as 3 aerial dashes, or the upward slash attack will, for some reason, allow you to jump again.

Act six

This boss...
I honestly expected it to take to take longer than the entire rest of the game combined. Instead, it was the fastest. While in it's stomach i deal about 5-6x more damage than normal, and of course he doesn't do any attacks that prevent me from hitting him. So obviously i had to manipulate him into eating me twice. Fortunately, i didn't have to manipulate it; he just did it, without me doing anything other than mashing A. Unfortunately he won't eat you during the final hp bar, so my initial attempt spent more on that last bar than the rest of the fight. When i went back to try to save a few seconds, i managed to save 2000 frames, by getting him to stand around doing nothing.
This is probably the most boring boss, since most of the time, he doesn't even attack at all, but it is easily the best fight, considering how much worse it would have been with even a little worse luck.

Act seven

'dat combo.

Final act

Nothing to say here: Enjoy.

Other comments

Possible improvements

Much of the run is spent traveling, which is mostly not possible to improve. The most significant improvement here would probably be using air dashes to jump higher without landing, as i did in act 7. This can only be done in limited places (while in a battle), but could probably save around 5 seconds throughout the run.
Bosses can obviously always be optimized better. Though it's easy to fight perfectly, it's difficult to get the bosses to stop attacking in ways that slow your damage down.
Random encounters are not always optimized very well. Because these have multiple enemies all spread out, it's extremely difficult to do these perfectly. Most fights could probably be improved by around a second or so.
And finally, the only real significant improvement would be by better luck manipulation. If someone were to find a way to avoid all but the few forced encounters, it would probably save somewhere around 5 minutes. I did my best to avoid all encounters that i could, but there are still quite a few of them. And even when using a smoke bomb, they still take up quite a bit of time. Although i know some of the encounters i had were possible to avoid, and i suspect most, if not all were, i have no idea if actually avoiding them all would be possible, let alone practical.

Thanks

A huge thanks to Nitsuja. When i first started on my first play through of shura, i averaged one desync every 5000 frames or so, and there was no read only, so the only way to check for desyncs was to play it back from the start - at 20-25 fps. By the time i started my actual run, read only was fixed, and i never once got a single desync, throughout the entire run. Without his fixes to dolphin, i still wouldn't have even started my run yet.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15582
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #3428: RachelB's Wii Muramasa: The Demon Blade in 1:12:54.32
Active player (279)
Joined: 4/30/2009
Posts: 791
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1113)
Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 1217
Toothache wrote:
Fixed the playlist link for you.
The issue was caused by a wiki bug: Specifically, it doesn't recognize https:// links as external, making it impossible to link into https:// URLs. As workaround, I changed the https link into http link (I also fixed the bug, but the fix hasn't been deployed yet). Whee... noparse forum tag can't disable autolinking. But putting a dummy markup inside what looks like URL does.
Editor, Skilled player (1536)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
"Takes no damage" and "Takes damage to save time" in the same TAS?
Favorite animal: STOCK Gt(ROSA)26Sortm1.1(rtTA,EGFP)Nagy Grm7Tg(SMN2)89Ahmb Smn1tm1Msd Tg(SMN2*delta7)4299Ahmb Tg(tetO-SMN2,-luc)#aAhmb/J YouTube Twitch
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
TASeditor wrote:
"Takes no damage" and "Takes damage to save time" in the same TAS?
Yep. Watch the act 5 boss.
Editor
Joined: 3/31/2010
Posts: 1466
Location: Not playing Puyo Tetris
A real Wii game gets a TAS. I will watch this and vote later.
When TAS does Quake 1, SDA will declare war. The Prince doth arrive he doth please.
GoddessMaria
She/Her
Reviewer, Experienced player (867)
Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 518
Location: Hell...
rog wrote:
TASeditor wrote:
"Takes no damage" and "Takes damage to save time" in the same TAS?
Yep. Watch the act 5 boss.
What TASeditor means is that it should not be possible to have both Tags/Labels in the same run. They contradict each other either way so if you took damage in Act 5 Boss, then you should use "Takes damage to save time" instead of both. In any other case, I shall refrain from voting just yet.
Current projects: failing at life
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1113)
Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 1217
GoddessMaria15 wrote:
What TASeditor means is that it should not be possible to have both Tags/Labels in the same run. They contradict each other
Looking at movie tags, there is no "no damage", only about taking damage or forgoing taking damage (which are opposites).
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
After watching your WIPs of the first level, I decided that I'd have to play this game myself, so I bought it and it's in my stack of waiting-to-be-played games. Which, unfortunately, means I can't really comment on your run since that'd require spoiling myself. Congrats on finishing, though!
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Player (118)
Joined: 5/13/2009
Posts: 700
Location: suffern, ny
As someone who has never played this game, seen it played, and just experienced it for the first time with this run. I have to vote no. I still cannot believe I sat through all of this. Honestly, act 1 is the same as acts 2-8, at least in my opinion. There is not much variety in the levels other than running left/right. The most interesting parts are the fights for enemies and the boss fights, which were a bit lengthy. While this may have been hard to TAS, and you may have spent a lot of time on this ( I have not been following the WIP) I have to vote no. Tl:DR Repetitive levels and Boring boss fights, warrent a No vote from me.
[19:16] <scrimpy> silly portuguese [19:16] <scrimpy> it's like spanish, only less cool
Active player (437)
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
I vote yes. The act 7 boss fight was wicked sick :D The background and the music is superb. It's been great following all of your wips. Sure, there is a lot of running back and forth but a) there are a lot of worse runs That have been accepted and published, b) you do fight enemies pretty efficiently to make this look like a tas (especially the boss fights), c) I was not bothered much by all the running and d) this run is entertaining enough to vote yes.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
Active player (293)
Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 458
Location: Houston
GoddessMaria15 wrote:
rog wrote:
TASeditor wrote:
"Takes no damage" and "Takes damage to save time" in the same TAS?
Yep. Watch the act 5 boss.
What TASeditor means is that it should not be possible to have both Tags/Labels in the same run. They contradict each other either way so if you took damage in Act 5 Boss, then you should use "Takes damage to save time" instead of both. In any other case, I shall refrain from voting just yet.
He can't take damage without dieing beacuse he only has 1 hp, you can recover right after being hit, so taking damage doesn't really do any damage to him. A better tag might be "get's hit to save time" rather then "takes damage".
Active player (293)
Joined: 12/16/2008
Posts: 458
Location: Houston
nicely done, I'll give it a yes. any plans to do a Kisuke run?
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
errror1 wrote:
any plans to do a Kisuke run?
I don't intend to, but it's possible i may eventually do in the future. Honestly though, it's not really much different from this, which is already a bit boring at times because of all the running around, so i don't really see much need for it.
Editor, Player (44)
Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1029
I'd say the instant recovery is basically the same thing as a blocked attack. "Takes hits that do no damage to save time" isn't really a category, and I'm not sure it needs mentioning.
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
They do do damage though. You'll notice that i do not get the completely unscathed bonus because of it. Regardless, it's not really important. If it gets published, it can go in whatever category is deemed appropriate.
Joined: 2/6/2011
Posts: 130
funnyhair wrote:
As someone who has never played this game, seen it played, and just experienced it for the first time with this run. I have to vote no. I still cannot believe I sat through all of this. Honestly, act 1 is the same as acts 2-8, at least in my opinion. There is not much variety in the levels other than running left/right. The most interesting parts are the fights for enemies and the boss fights, which were a bit lengthy. While this may have been hard to TAS, and you may have spent a lot of time on this ( I have not been following the WIP) I have to vote no. Tl:DR Repetitive levels and Boring boss fights, warrent a No vote from me.
I agree, the run seems optimized enough but the levels are too repetitive making it more boring the longer you watch it. The game has nice music and graphics but the gameplay itself doesn't offers much. Voting Meh.
Joined: 6/26/2011
Posts: 167
Obviously, due to having been following (at least some of) the WIPs, I'm impressed enough with this run to make it an easy Yes vote. As for the "damage / no damage" discussion... I would think the deaths taken to save time would, by itself, disqualify the run from no-damage status (as, obviously, dying requires taking damage >_>;). By the way, for anyone not entirely familiar with the game, the reason this run uses SRAM is solely to unlock the hardest difficulty (which is not available on a clean SRAM). Just felt I should mention this as it's not clarified in the submission text.
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats. Yay, favoritism.
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Saethori wrote:
I would think the deaths taken to save time would, by itself, disqualify the run from no-damage status (as, obviously, dying requires taking damage >_>;).
As i mentioned in the submission text, i chose not to do that.
Joined: 6/26/2011
Posts: 167
Oh. >_>; Forgive me, I don't usually have a lot of free time so it's not exactly easy for me to follow WIPs. ;_; (I'm actually still watching it. x.x)
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats. Yay, favoritism.
Sir_VG
He/Him
Player (40)
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/577/muramasap.png/][/URL] One of the highlights. That boss fight was sick. This or one of the pseudo deaths should be used for a screenshot. My opinion though.
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Warepire
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
I have been following the WIPs of this game and checked some real time speed runs (partially). To me this is impressive work, the luck manipulation causes many segments of run right / left for justice, but the other segments are worth the wait, like the segment Sir VG took a screen shot of above. I vote yes.
Joined: 8/2/2011
Posts: 39
While I think it's great we have a Wii TAS, this game/run has far too much boring running.
Joined: 3/20/2010
Posts: 21
I vote yes. Please look into Odin Sphere, rog.
Active player (378)
Joined: 9/25/2011
Posts: 652
It's such a beautiful game, I was glad for the times where you were just running with nothing happening because I could just focus on the scenery. Definite yes vote. Sometimes you would enter an area, leave it immediately, and then reenter it. Was that for encounter manipulation? As for "Takes no damage", I don't think it applies. Your hit points go from 1 to 0 for a few frames, which I would count as damage. The fact that you heal almost immediately doesn't negate the fact that you took damage.