Post subject: Can there ever be a way to fix the desyncing of frames?
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
I'm growing tried of seeing my movies desync. It doesn't happen all too often in Famtasia, but it happens quite a bit in Gens. All that I really want to do is record, while using save states and slow motion, and not having stop recording at a certain point just to make sure that the movie didn't desync, then I could just watch my creation. I know that a couple of causes for desyncing are pausing while recording, and frame skiping, but I just hope that, one day, someone can modify the emulators so that, 99% of the time, the movie that you're creating, will almost never desync.
Former player
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 375
Funny, I never have any desync problems in Gens (at least, after v.6 or so was released) that aren't my own fault (i.e. loading a far back save, then loading a near-back save).
Former player
Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria
nifboy wrote:
Funny, I never have any desync problems in Gens (at least, after v.6 or so was released) that aren't my own fault (i.e. loading a far back save, then loading a near-back save).
Same for me
Emulator Coder
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 453
Location: Norway
In worst case this could be an issue with the emulator not 100% properly emulating the game.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
I only had a problem once with Shinobi 3, and while I'm not sure I think it was somehow my fault because I was trying to save two identical savestates while paused. I often use frameskip 8 back and forth to fastforward to a point where I want to make a savestate. And i quickpause all the time too to compare times for different strategies. I don't know why you would have such a bit problem...
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
nifboy wrote:
Funny, I never have any desync problems in Gens (at least, after v.6 or so was released) that aren't my own fault (i.e. loading a far back save, then loading a near-back save).
I know about that, and I don't even do that, either, yet, it still happens. I'm using Gens 9a.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
Well, after playing the first quarter of the Genesis ROM "NBA Jam", I'd decided to watch my video. I'd found out that it'd desynced after the first slam dunk that I'd made--that was when I'd done a quick save. So, apparently, even doing a quick save can desync a video. This very annoying, as well as frusturating.
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
When you quicksave, what do you do? Do you pause or quickpause first? (I don't.) If you still have the quicksave you made at that point (you probably don't), you can test play from savestate, maybe you can see the rest of the movie. Worked for me once.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
To answer the question: no, I do not pause and save or quickpause. I just do a quicksave, and that's it. You're correct, I didn't keep the save state. Here's what I do for Gens 9a (since this is rarely a problem with Famtasia)... I quicksave using Save Slot 0 at the beginning of a level, then I'll instantly switch to Save Slot 1 and quicksave. I quickload Save Slot 1 for mistakes, but if it's something unavoidable and/or I believe my attempt at the level is not really what I prefer, I'll switch to Save Slot 0 and quickload. If I'm doing something completely wrong, and need to change my strategy in quicksaving and quickloading, please tell me. If it's true that I'm not supposed to load Save Slot 0, after loading Save Slot 1, then what am I supposed to do? I can't just start over the whole game with just one Save Slot. If I use the save slots that are after 0, then I'll end up running out of them, since there are only 10.
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
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Location: Rio, Brazil
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Actually, I do it identically to you, with the saves 0 and 1. But every time before I load or save 0, I make a backup of the movie. Also, you don't have to erase all the way back to 0 if you made a mistake with 1. Playback from state 0 and save 1 before the mistake, then resume record from savestate 1. (Perhaps this is what you do but I couldn't make that out from your description.) I have no idea what is causing this trouble for you. :(
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 213
Location: Montréal, Québec
If you're using sound, be sure to have these sound settings : -Sound enabled -Sound rate 44khz -Stereo -All sound chips enabled exept DAC Quicksaving and switching savestate shouldn't affect movie synchronization unless this game use some obscure register unsaved in savestate.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
I'd just gotten back from work, so I shall now answer the questions. To FODA: I'd just bought a new computer about 2 weeks ago, and it's top of the line, so it's not slow. To Truncated: I'd said that if it's something completely unavoidable (like with the MK 2 video that I'm creating while fighting Jax as Sub-Zero, and he avoids every attack), or if I believe that the level that I'd completed is not what I prefer, after watching it, then I'll use Save Slot 0. To Jyzero: I have my sound enabled, my sound rate is 44hz, it's stereo, and I have all of my sound chips enabled, even DAC. So, I shall now try it without the DAC sound enabled (I don't know what that means...) Also, I don't quite understand how the sound chips can effect the video frame skipping...it just doesn't make sense. Are you able to explain it?
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I have only had one desync problem while watching some one elses run. And that was because the person had fiddled with the config file. I use the default config besides the controls. Oh. I have had desync with my own movies. But that was only because I accidently used wrong save state to play from.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
Well, I'd tried it without the DAC sound chip on. Obviously, some sounds go away (I'd recorded NBA Jam). Unfortunately, it did skip, but it was much further on in the recording, instead of happening right away, so that's good, but I think that I might have figured out why it's been skipping (I'd even seen it skip, while I was recording). I'd put the game on slow motion so that I could steal the ball, and make a slam dunk, as usual, but what I had done at some points is turn off slow motion while it was still recording (not a problem, you believe), but...when I turn slow motion back on, the recording game pauses, so I'd press it again and it'd go back to normal speed (so that I'd be able to press it again to have it go back in slow motion). What I'd noticed, from then on, is when I'd change it to normal speed, slow motion would still be checked off, as if Gens 9a had thought that it was still on, when it really wasn't. It'd still work like normal, but some of the time, when playing on normal speed, slow motion would be checked, as I'd just previously stated. If anyone else has noticed this happening, then inform me, because if it's happening to others, then it might be a good idea to fix this for the next version that could be released.
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Yeah. I have seen it checked as well when using a quick key for it. But I didn't think it caused any harm. As far as I can tell it hasn't done anything to my run. But then again, I'm not sure if I recorded while using the quick keys or if I simply clicked the option. I will stay away from it while recording though. Hurry up with that NBA Jam movie. I played that alot with my brother many years ago.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
I am trying to speed along with my NBA Jam video. I'm actually going to make 2 of them. One that is pure speed (steal and slam dunk to see how many points I can make), the other will also be for speed, but it will have style, which will not be as fast as the pure speed video (you'll see it, when it's posted, or I might post both), but up to you guys if you really like it. I've also tried other games, and had seen if that stupid glitch happens (checked off slow motion, when it's not in slow motion at all), and it has happened in all of the other games, as I'd figured it would. I'd played beyond that point for a tiny bit, then I'd watch my videos (I was still trying to be perfect in the testing of these video, but I'd wanted to see if it would desync), and it did desync on all of them at the exact point that the checked off slow motion would stay on, even when it wasn't (I have been using the quick key). So, this is something that needs to be fixed. Obviously, try it out yourself, Jyzero, (maybe you could fix this problem) as well as others. It should happen to all of you (it won't happen all of the time). Either that's a problem that causes the desyncing (which is, obviously, what I've concluded), or just has happened to me, which would be quite surprising.
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 213
Location: Montréal, Québec
The menu problem with slowdown check is known. It is really a menu problem and not a slowdown problem. When using quickkeys, the menu isn't refreshed. I don't know if I can fix this problem. Otherwise I will have the remove the check and rename Slow Mode to Toggle Slow Mode. You shouldn't use the default config. The sound rate by default is 22khz. It's okay for PAL games. However, with NTSC games, anything lower than 44khz will cause rounding errors in sound timing. In future version, 44khz will be the default configuration. The problem with DAC (and sound in general) is timing. There is a lot of rounding errors created when computing the timing for each emulated frame. Some games (Like Sonic 1) are completly independant of sound timing. Other games (like Castlevania for example) that are dependant of sound timing are prone to desync. I will try to play with NBA Jam to see if there are ways to avoid desync.
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Hmm.. Didn't know that about sound timing.
Joined: 4/25/2004
Posts: 32
Location: USA
Now, I'm back, again. As for the NBA Jam video, now...I have just stopped trying to make one, because the video is desyncing way too much. It's now desyning for every time that I make a slam dunk (yes, I'm a very patient person, but you'd have to admit that even this is a little overboard).
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Sad. I would love to see a movie of that.