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Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
What with all the attention being received by FF6 lately, I was kind of thinking.. what about the best game in the series, FF5? Would people be interested in a speedrun of this game? Or perhaps a low-level run (which can even be done on console with 2/2/2/3)?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Post subject: Re: Final Fantasy V
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Boco wrote:
What with all the attention being received by FF6 lately, I was kind of thinking.. what about the best game in the series, FF5?
I totally agree! This was the second RPG I played ever and I love it. Also one of my top games. If I got time for a project this big sometime I will do it if noone makes it before me. The characters and the story is one of the greatest ever! Atleast I think it is. Also the job-system is awesome. Uhm. How low level would be possible to have and still beat this game? And as I recall you can't skip that much out of the storyline. Maybe you can skip the 12 weapons but I guess they are good to have later on.
/Walker Boh
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Yeah I was about to ask, how linear is the game(I haven't played it in awhile)? While the job system would certainly allow for a lot of control over the game, if it's not very linear then it will still probably be very long. Of the super nintendo games, in the order of best to worst I'd probably go for FF6, FF5, FF4.
Former player
Joined: 4/24/2004
Posts: 50
Well, the first two worlds are pretty linear, with the exception of things like Gilgame. The last world isn't though. Once you get the airship (Get to the catapult), you can get to the Cleft of Dimension without getting the other sealed tablets, other legendary weapons, other summons, other songs, etc. And in the Cleft of Dimension, you can avoid 1 boss towards the end, but you give up the opportunity to steal Genji Armor from Gilgamesh. After the rescuing Lenna and getting Fork Tower, you can get the airship. By then, you will have 1 stone tablet from the Lonka Pyramid. I'd also stop by Mirage to get high level equipment, assuming you can afford it. Just remember to get dash before trying this one. The Trainer (Tamer) also has an attribute that allows you to avoid combat, right? I also read somewhere about a low level contest, but that may slow the game down? I think the lowest level is like 9, but the thing is that you need to have a guy at level 5 or 10, in order to get level 5 death. The job system is good here, because it allows unfair tactics against particular bosses. For example, in the first world, the boss in the canal can be whipped by 4 black mages. Consequently, many parts of the game can be sped through with 4 monks. Luck manipulation is essential, especially with bosses that have timed weaknesses. Don't forget to spend 2 minutes to get Lvl 5 Death in the Ancient Library from "Page 64", as MANY bosses are weak to it. (It's kind of weird that Square would do that, but what the heck, right?) The things is that when you get into the Cleft of Dimension, you will not have two or less ribbons, as well as inferior weapons and armor. (Except Excalibur and Masamune, which I would get on the required 1st sealed tablet.) Also, GP toss will be useless, since you will probably be running from most battles using the Escape command. EDIT: Don't forget Death Claw! Another one of those blue magics that may work to your advantage. You can manipulate Iron Claw into casting it, so you don't have anything to worry about.
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Aren't Chemists supposed to be awfully broken in general? I know they can level any enemy up to 255 by abusing a certain item, allowing you to Level 5 Death your way through the game. They can also Berserk any enemy, as I recall. This all may take way too much leveling and item gathering to be worth it, though... And FF5 is my least favorite of the 16-bit FF's. 4 and 6 had far more memorable soundtracks and characters IMO, though 5 probably dusts them both gameplay-wise. Would still like to see a run of every SNES FF, Josh.
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
The lowest levels possible for game completion are 2/2/2/3. You learn L5 Death by using Hero Drink or other temporary level boosters until you cap at 255.
Wodball wrote:
Don't forget to spend 2 minutes to get Lvl 5 Death in the Ancient Library from "Page 64", as MANY bosses are weak to it. (It's kind of weird that Square would do that, but what the heck, right?) [...] EDIT: Don't forget Death Claw! Another one of those blue magics that may work to your advantage. You can manipulate Iron Claw into casting it, so you don't have anything to worry about.
L5 Death can be abused on all bosses except one (Omega) through a combination of Old, Black Shock, Hero Drink, and other level manipulators. Death Claw is most useful for Catching monsies. Release is an incredibly useful attack. Would it be more interesting to see a clean low-level run, a rerecorded low-level run, or a rerecorded speedrun taht doesn't go out of its way to avoid EXP?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
I'd say most impressive would be without rerecords, but most interesting would be with rerecords as fast as possible.
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I'd vote for re-recorded.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I'd watch anything of this game. I love it and that's it. Now I only need to find those 100 hours I need to do this...
/Walker Boh
Former player
Joined: 9/24/2004
Posts: 177
Well, if you're interested in doing a speedrun, rerecorded or not, might as well help you get things started! Here's what my plan for the first hour or so of the game was: - While in the pirates' cave, fight a group of Steel Bats, giving you 9 EXP (this is almost always the first battle you fight once you enter the cave) - After you get Faris and the ship, go straight to the Wind Shrine. On F4, pick up the sword in the chest and equip it on Galuf - this allows you to kill the first boss before it hides behind its' wings. - After you get your first set of jobs, immediately switch to Blue Mage x3/Thief, and let anyone but Faris be the thief. Head to Tule Village and fight the monster-in-a-box in the chest in the Beginner's House (1x Goblin), learn Goblin Punch, then kill it to level up to 2/2/2/3. Afterwards, buy Fire, Ice, and Bolt at the Magic Shop, switch to Black Mage x3/Thief (this time, let Faris be the thief) then go on. - The next boss, Karlabos, dies to 6 shots of Bolt. - Anytime before the next story event on the Ship Graveyard, switch to Blue Mage x3/Thief (you'll get event-based healing mid-way through the ship graveyard). Start bombarding the next boss, Siren, with Goblin Punches (this ability does massive damage if the caster's level equals the target's). Immediately afterward, switch to Black Mage x3/Thief. - While heading toward Carwen Village or the North Mountain, fight a pair of Tatus (they're weak vs Ice) to level up to 3/3/3/4. - Go to Carwen Village and pick up the Ice Rod there (it's hidden under an underpass around the middle of town), then break it on the boss, Magisa, to kill her in one hit, and win a Whip. - Follow the story to Worus Tower. Right before the next boss (Galura), change to Blue Mage x3/Classless (let Faris be Classless), and equip the Whip on Faris. Now, let Faris keep Galura paralyzed while the rest of them beat up Galura with Goblin Punches (Galura is level 3). Afterward, switch to Black Mage x3/Thief. - While heading toward Karnak, fight any Wild Nacks you come across (they're weak vs Fire) - they're very good EXP and the absolute best source of money in world 1, period. Build yourself up to level 8 or 9 or so (I haven't precisely calculated out the number of battles you should fight, sorry), then once you're finished head into Karnak itself. Buy one Ice Rod for cheap, then come back to buy five more (you should have plenty enough money to do so, if not, come back to buy the rest after Karnak Castle blows up). - Go through the Steamship and kill the next boss, Liquidflame, by breaking an Ice Rod, attacking, then breaking one more Ice Rod. (I'm not certain if you can manipulate its' forms to be able to break two rods in a row without the second doing no damage, but I've never been able to do it in normal play). - Change to Blue Mage x3/Thief, and escape from Karnak. Kill the next boss, Iron Claw, by breaking a rod, waiting for it to change, letting it use Death Claw (this is a very important spell), then breaking one more rod to kill it. Hopefully you'll be able to align the battles you fought on your way to Karnak such that when you win, you'll reach 9/9/9/10 or 10/10/10/11 or something similar). - Afterward, go to the Ancient Library, and sometime there, learn Lv5 Death from a Page 64 there (preferrably during a Page 32/Page 64 battle). Then, kill Ifrit by breaking two more rods, then kill the next boss, Biblos, by using Death Claw then attacking. Afterwards, I haven't done any real in-depth planning, but it shouldn't be too much harder to speed through the rest of the game. I wouldn't be surprised if a 5 hour run of it is possible. There's a way to kill every boss in the game in some incredibly fast way - most of them are in the boss battling guides or the low level challenge guides on GameFAQs.
Joined: 8/11/2004
Posts: 11
Location: Luleå, Sweden
Blechy wrote:
I'd say most impressive would be without rerecords, but most interesting would be with rerecords as fast as possible.
I second this.
Post Count +1
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I was bored today so I started a new file on FF5 and tried to see how well I could follow the directions here. I think a lot of the switching between Jobs can be minimised. Stick with Black until you get a JLVL and then switch to Blue and equip Black Magic lv.1. Also, it takes quite a few battles with Wild Naks to get up to high enough that Iron Claw puts you at 9/9/9/10. I don't even remember if any of the stuff in the chests in Karnak is useful, but why not kill a few monster-in-a-box rather than more Wild Naks so you get stuff out of it if it's useful? I'm sure you can figure out a way to kill them extremely quickly (Wild Naks take 3 actions to take down, because Faris always goes first and is useless in battle, but you can spend more time fighting MIAB because it takes quite a while to trigger the 4 or 5 extra random battles outside Karnak you need.. Gigas is most of the MIAB and that's the same EXP as a Wild Nak battle). The Iron Claw battle will net 115 EXP, which means Faris needs 1161 or greater before you kill him. When I did it I still had to fight 2 more battles to get 9 and 10.. and I went into Karnak after freshly reaching lvls of 8 and 9, which took a few battles extra (walking straight to Karnak and fighting every Wild Nak party encountered - which was 100% of encounters - got me to the 6 and 7 range.. maybe it's better to aim for 4 and 5?). Anyway it took about 1h30m to reach the Ancient Library. But I was playing on a console and I wasted a lot of time doing unneccessary stuffs so doing all of the above ^^^ in 1h15m or even under 1h is definitely possible. EDIT: BTW I was also using Battle Speed 3 (about 1 second delay every time someone chooses or executes an action), Message Speed 3, and Wait style.. it should be 1, 1, and Active for the fastest speed. Random: it is amusing to me that there is a Jikuu spell that sets the Battle Speed to 5 for that battle and has no other effects.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I'd love to see a FF5 superplay. I once did a speedrun on that game and ended up with 7 hours 44 minutes. I also once played through it with max stats from the beginning and ended up with a time of about 2 hours. If the effects of killing every boss with one blow and being able to dash and use menus superplay-style cancel each other out, then you'd have a perfect movie of around 2 hours.
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I will make a low-precision demo video of the first world, or at least most of it. From there, if major strategies lead to more optimisation, good, if strategies for the second world are developed (aside from just following a LLG guide), good, etc., etc..
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
http://www.geocities.com/boco_xlvii/ff5movie.zip The first ~17 minutes. It can already be improved by a few seconds using optimisation and possibly more if the random battle algorithms were known... This is just the plot before the first dungeon. And now, off to class...
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
You're awesome. I'm gonna watch it right now. But which version of the ROM did you use? I'm sure I have it, but just for anybody who doesn't.
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
It works with "Final Fantasy V (J)", and doesn't with the translated version.
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Joined: 3/29/2004
Posts: 224
Why not use the translated version?
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Vaguely interesting so far. Some things: you should walk in clean lines rather than swirly ones. This looks a lot more determined. Also, why did you let Lenna hit the last bat in the first random encounter? It only wasted time because Butz would kill it in one blow with his move. Then again, you could have just avoided that battle alltogether.
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Locke wrote:
Why not use the translated version?
Because this game was never imported to USA. There are only fan translations, and as a policy, I don't allow them. Also, the Japanese version might be a little faster due to simpler text display routine :)
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I like the fan translated version more than the official translation for the PSX version. :p Also, wouldn't Japanese be faster simply because the language itself is much more compact, reducing the amount of dialogue screens?
Editor, Active player (296)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Omega wrote:
Also, wouldn't Japanese be faster simply because the language itself is much more compact, reducing the amount of dialogue screens?
That true, but English variable width font routine requires filling into the same 8x8 tiles multiple times, whereas the Japanese version only requires writing to them only once. It also requires more math to calculate the shifting and to do the shifting to get the letters into correct positions in the tiles.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
All in all, we're talking about an RPG with lots of dialogue, should be a few seconds in the end. :)
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Yeah, there's lots of room for improvement. (edit: first battle can be improved by some frames, third battle's ending can be improved, the battle with the bats can have Lenna defend (no switching character initiative in this game), taking more direct routes, etc). I'm not worried about that much because it can be ironed out later. After tomorrow I'll be without internet access for a few days so I'll work on it on my laptop during that time. The fight with the bats is to get EXP enough so that the fight with the goblins (in a while) will pump levels to 2/2/2/3. Then another fight will get 3/3/3/4 and then killing Iron Claw and his entourage will get 5/4/4/5, which is exactly right to learn L5 Death without wasting time killing Wild Naks. The only problem with this is half of the reason for the Naks is money for the rods to kill Iron Claw.. there's 2000 gil in Karnak that can be grabbed on the way out, but meanwhile I need 4 Ice Rods before then and opnly have the money for two. So in the ship graveyard I'll steal some Ethers. That combined with grabbing a few chests means I can sell off enough to get the Rods to kill Iron Claw and Liquid Flame and then get more with the 2k gil for Ifrit, and from there I can just use Ninja techniques (which cost like 200 gil instead of 700). Is playing the pianos worth it?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Former player
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I think it's time for me to get the SNES-emu so I can watch this. If you do finish this Boco I will worship you! Good luck lady!
/Walker Boh
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