Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
I was just wondering, at around frame 21400 when you go in and out killing the... whatever it is with a ghost flying around, wouldn't it be worth to give the ghost a killing as well seeing how he is close to you in the end before leaving the screen?
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
The ghost can be killed and gives 8 life points (out of a total of 80 max), but due to the way and speed at which the ghost moves it cannot be killed without taking an extra swing (20 frames). The only boost that I recall skipping after this point was a spaceman up in the sky, which only saves ~10 frames, so not worth it timewise.
Obviously, if the ghost gave golds, it would be a different story.
Incidentally, I refer to those big white monsters that shoot fireballs as "spacemen"
Hey Lord Tom, once you complete this run, would you mind divulging your discoveries with the memory addresses? I'm very curious to know more about this game.
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Yes, I like to write very-detailed run comments and will describe the memory addresses I used along with all the tricks I discovered with some use for saving time.
Also, there are many more hidden items in the game than appear in any speed run, TAS or online map that I have seen. After the run is done I will try to put this info up on a web site or something.
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Submission is in; final time was 23:24 for an improvement of 7:37. Not quite as much as I'd hoped, but waaaay below where I thought I could get it early on. Enjoy!
I don't think this was ever mentioned, but there is a glitch whereby you can gain another 1500 golds from the king.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1240329231/Faxanadu-moneyglitch.fcm
The mechanics is, the king only checks to see if your pockets are empty (0 golds.) If so, he tells you to go forth and do awesome and good. If false, he tells you that he can't do anything else for you. So really you just have to devise a way to spend exactly 1500 golds after he gives you money. I did it with Elixir (use Elixir), another Elixir, red potion, deluge OR dagger and three J Keys.
Considering that skipping the boss of the first tower means that money is a lot more difficult to come by, this may be a viable alternative.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day,
Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
This trick was known and discussed back when Walker Boh did his run. When I was designing my run, I also thought it might be a faster way to earn gold. Alas, the king is just too far away, and talks way too long...it's something like 20s faster to earn the gold by killing monsters outside the 3rd town.
Incidentally, a much faster way to get down to 0 golds is to buy just what you need and then die on the spiky creatures. You can lose most of your life en route to see the king the 1st time so it only takes one hit after you're done shopping. Buying/using items in this game is very slow because of all the messages.
Another fun challenge is to skip buying the dagger...
I have some questions about the detailed workings of this game that somebody witch hacking experience may be able to answer, if they can spare the time. What are the first 2 missing bits of game events used for? I also need a couple questions answered about some missing values in my guide, regarding equipment.
A Black Onyx reduces damage received by 1/8, right? Does it also give this reduction to magic damage? Does it have any other special powers?
I also need verification on the following values...
Weapon Damage Dealt Damage With Pendant
Hand Dagger 5 4
Long Sword 10 8
Giant Blade 15 12
Dragon Slayer 20 16
And I assume a Glove increases damage dealt by 1/5, right?
Magic Casting Cost (MP) Damage Dealt Damage/MP Damage With Magic Rod
Deluge 2 6 3 9
Thunder 4 9 2.25 13
Fire 6 24 4 36
Death 10 34 3.4 51
Tilte 16 38 2.375 57
I am unsure about Death's value. I thought I remember firing it 7 times before it ran out. Out of an 80-point meter, this would be incorrect if my memory is right.
I also would like to know what enemies are resistant to what types of magic. For example, the Death Mage that appears in the mist at the top of the screen seems unaffected by Death and Thunder, IIRC (and I can’t even reach it with Deluge). Does anyone have a list of enemies and their resistances to certain magics?
Armor Physical Damage Reduction Shield Magic Damage Reduction
Leather/None 0 Small Shield
Studded Mail 1/8 Large Shield
Full Plate 1/4 Magic Shield
Battle Suit Battle Helmet
I am unsure about a couple things. In one test with a sword-swinging dwarf, I took as many hits to die with a full life meter wearing the Studded Mail versus the Leather Armor. Is there a glitch where the Studded mail gives no reduction, where some enemies don't give it a reduction, a glitch with certain enemy attacks, or some anomaly that occurred with my testing? I used a password to start at Victim with all armors, then went left of there and let the sword-swinging dwarf kill me wearing each armor.
The Full Plate and Battle Suit gave proper reductions, but I can't remember what they were. It also seems that the Battle Helmet is completely useless. I can't seem to get any magic blocked by it at all. Is there a glitch with it, as I suspect? The most obvious example is the fight against the Evil One. His fireballs qualify as magic, IIRC, but won't hit the helmet (and therefore won't harm you with Ointment).
I'd appreciate any help I can get in filling in these missing values and will add credit in my guide for the help (please note if you want to be referred to as something other than your username). Thanks!
Life is like a box of chocolates-when you want peanut butter, all you get is coconut.
On the subject of drudging up old topics, I wonder if there is any merit in this idea:
Play the game exactly as is, until you reach the room with the Guru who gives you Key JO.
Spend a couple of additional seconds doing four up/down screen transitions against the bees to acquire a second pair of Wing Boots.
Continue to the fountain as normal and deathwarp back to town.
Enter the equipment shop with your 500 Golds, sell the second pair of Wing Boots for 1400 Golds, buy the Longsword (1600 Golds).
You have to kill two mages to make back the 200 Golds required to buy the Key Q, but this is faster than before because the Longsword does twice as much damage as the Dagger.
Now you have the Longsword for the rest of the run, which has to be an improvement.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
On the subject of drudging up old topics, I wonder if there is any merit in this idea:
Play the game exactly as is, until you reach the room with the Guru who gives you Key JO.
Spend a couple of additional seconds doing four up/down screen transitions against the bees to acquire a second pair of Wing Boots.
Continue to the fountain as normal and deathwarp back to town.
Enter the equipment shop with your 500 Golds, sell the second pair of Wing Boots for 1400 Golds, buy the Longsword (1600 Golds).
You have to kill two mages to make back the 200 Golds required to buy the Key Q, but this is faster than before because the Longsword does twice as much damage as the Dagger.
Now you have the Longsword for the rest of the run, which has to be an improvement.
If you're going to do that, why not grab the Longsword the first time in town and use the freebie in The Burning Mists?
The farming done before the town acquires 2800 Golds, to buy the Wing Boots. Acquiring another 1600 Golds by killing the lone Mage is 14 kills (115 Golds apiece), which is 28 screen transitions. I don't think that would be gained back by having the Longsword during the dungeon.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Well, no; I'm proposing farming for longsword + Q Key, then getting wing boots from the aforementioned freebie.
It's been a while since I've watched the movie, though, so I don't remember how many are needed or where they get used.
Okay, yeah, nevermind, I forgot that the skyfountain had to be done first to get that dungeon done in one go. Next best plan is to do the extra wing boots plan - you can get the money back fairly quickly, though it still may lose about as much time as is saved due to screwing up the room counter for other freebies.
Except that everything in the game (in my experience) is on a four room counter. So, getting the Wing Boots above Key JO and then getting a second pair (4 8 more rooms) doesn't affect the counter.
And, actually, having to kill two more wizards (four screen transitions) is also four more rooms. And and, if it was fewer rooms, that would mean not having to spend as many room transitions getting the Ointment on the way to the Dragon, Ring, and Misty world.
Edit: 4 visits to the Wing Boots rooms != 4 more rooms, it is 8 more rooms. Oops.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
I want to say the counter only increments when you enter a Freebie room though, so that's still extra room transitions somewhere (even if it's just in the bees room). I'll check the ram tomorrow, my LP playthrough is pretty close to a few freebie rooms and the counter location is known.
Even if that is the case (that it only increments in freebie rooms), you're adding 4 (0) rooms by getting a second pair of Boots, and then you still have to acquire the Ointment on leaving town.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Ehh, good point, it is only one extra batch of four room transitions.
The counter is at NES RAM 043A, it increments once each time you enter a freebie room and you get a freebie whenever you clear the room and the counter is equal to 0 (or at least that is the case with the ointment right outside of Forepaw). It counts 0 - 1 - 2 - 3 - 0...
Right, so the time tradeoff between getting the Longsword on the first visit to town versus the second is:
time (killing 16 wizards with the Dagger + 32 entering/leaving town transitions)
versus
time (killing 3 bees + 8 dungeon screen transitions + selling Wing Boots + killing 2 wizards with the Longsword + 4 entering/leaving town transitions)
I am fairly certain that the dungeon route is faster, as the bee room is done really quickly, and killing wizards with the Longsword is faster than with the Dagger. (Deluge remains a constant, of course.)
The other question, and I think the answer is, "Obviously yes," is: 'Does taking this time to get the weapon get made back by having it?'
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
The dungeon route is faster because you need to get the Wing Boots fountain before going into the dungeon. If it wasn't for that, the early longsword would be at least theoretically viable.
I think I am going to put my non-existent TASing abilities to the test, to get an improvement on this wonderful video.
I've made a couple of notes where improvement might be possible:
- Instead of killing the mage immediately outside of Forepaw, it might be faster to kill the mage a screen away on the top path. Unless, of course, the screen transition is slower, in which case time would probably be lost.
- Seeing if it is faster to approach the Key JO dungeon from the right by flying up on the previous screen. It's quite possible that jumping from the Great Spring is the fastest way up.
- Acquiring the Long Sword, as stated in the previous posts.
- Seeing how quickly the gargoyle/dragon thing can be beaten with the Long Sword, to acquire 4500 Golds for the three Key Ks, to see if that saves time over killing things along the way.
- Determining whether it is faster to kill the rifleman outside of the three buildings in Mist for money by entering/exiting than killing things along the way.
- Finding the right mix of the above two points to reach 4500 Golds without things becoming too repetitive or boring.
Path-wise, I feel that Lord Tom's route is as optimal as it's going to get without some crazy warping glitch being discovered.
I have been considering the time tradeoff of dying in Eolis versus not having magic until the Forepaw death warp, but my gut feeling is that so much time is spent fighting to get 2800 Golds that not having magic would make each fight take longer than the ~400 frames of death message and the 450 frames of getting hit and dying.
Actually, thinking about it while I type this, I realize that the main time loss on the no MP route is the spike thing that is in the Mattock room. Because the dagger doesn't hit low, I'd have to miss the platform twice, and that would be a major time loss.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
As a compromise, is it at all possible to do the no MP route while buying an MP recharge in Eolis, or does that eat too much golds?
E: At 200 golds for 40 MP, the main concern is now timing.
It eats too much Golds, I would have to stop in Apolune to buy two keys, at raised prices.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
Okay, so skipping the Eolis Suicide is out.
We can't farm the wyvern near Apolune since if we're going to do that it'd already be in the route for the Mattock it drops.
There's a Wyvern in the Tower of Fortress, to the right of the Guru's hideout. If we're going to grind for the Long Sword without doing the Wing Boots thing, that's the best place to get what we don't already have. (In a realtime run I'd suggest doing the Mushroomer or the Collapse Frog instead - it's nearer to the Freebie Elixir as a safety net, but the yields are far lower, and the Collapse Frog room can give Wing Boots.)
It's too bad there's no Big Arms to farm off of before the Mists World of Branch; they drop the most Golds, their AI is easy to cheese, and they don't shoot fireballs.
E: Big Arms tomfoolery below.
Link to video
The Wyvern I was referring to was the one behind the Key JO door, after acquiring the Long Sword, in order to buy three Key K, not either of the earlier ones, since the first one takes too much time and the second one happens before the death warp.
I am still the wizard that did it.
"On my business card, I am a corporate president. In my mind, I am a game developer. But in my heart, I am a gamer." -- Satoru Iwata
<scrimpy> at least I now know where every map, energy and save room in this game is
