Topic by p0rtal_0f_rain

Posted: 10/4/2009 3:43 AM

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p0rtal_0f_rain

Banned User

Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone

this game drives me nuts, too, so you're not the only one, lol anyhow, I guess a decent strategy would be to get LV3 unarmed just to get the ability to use drop-kicks for speed and concentrating on putting the gun at LV2/LV3 before facing the band-aid miniboss. I also want to know if it's a good idea to level up the laser gun after defeating the first boss (ex: Overkill)? I thought the laser gun was used in that single-segment speedrun at SDA?! For now, I give a preview of a preferred stage (mountain climb) after defeating Overkill... http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/63001547/gi-joe-p0rtal0frain.fcm

Posted: 10/4/2009 4:20 PM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

p0rtal_0f_rain wrote:

I also want to know if it's a good idea to level up the laser gun after defeating the first boss (ex: Overkill)? I thought the laser gun was used in that single-segment speedrun at SDA?!

Yes, as much as possible. You did a pretty good job of it on the mountain climb and there's plenty in the next level as well.

Posted: 10/11/2009 3:48 AM

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p0rtal_0f_rain

Banned User

Joined: 12/5/2007
Posts: 742
Location: Gone

Okay, though this method would take a lot of frames, it seems useful to push "Down+Select" to bring up Spirit and then push A to confirm restoring life. Only use if you can't find rations or if you get seriously tied up in a TAS.

Posted: 5/28/2010 6:19 AM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

I tried accessing some of the WIP's based on the links above, but Microstorage kept giving me dead-link errors with messages like "Data error accessing video." If anyone has the WIP's listed above, that they once downloaded, please re-upload them so that I can review them and compare. I spent practically a bit of time on this game, now Overkill got pwn3d right at frame 10600 - which I thought that everything was well-optimized altogether. I climb a mountain on the next level from which I read. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/968331596/gi.joe.2.wip.C0DE.RED.fm2 Inzult: I discovered that you have a certain bare-hand attacking pattern that was very helpful in this optimization. All it took was a repeated B-Down-Right-per-frame and B-Down-Left-per-frame that significantly cracked down some time to defeat minibosses, and even Overkill! On the third stage, I think I even optimized their mini-boss! Again, I can't tell until I get my hands on the WIP's. I also discovered that you're able to push Start at frame 815, and again at frame 819. 815 when the main menu is ready and 819 to skip the opening storyline. Then you go through the radar/character screens until the frame that you start on the opening route. This saves 28 frames. However, possible random memory forces you to re-think the entire manipulation strategy as you jump and collect the POW icons all the way to Bare Hands LV3. On a lazy-man's note, I already tried mirroring your frame-by-frame actions during the run despite the earlier start technique, it doesn't work that way. I managed to obtain your recent wip FCM before I kept getting error messages from Microstorage - I even converted it to FM2. Here you go: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1852415410/gijoe2-inzult-wip_1.fm2 Edit ~ I managed to proceed past the mountain to Route 11. I was in desperate need of bullets to make sure I've gotten ready for Destro. I am sure there were even more bullets underwater, but you have to give up a lot of frames just to throw in Wet Suit and have to go there. Then going into Area D, I had to pause for a moment to finally level up Gen. Hawk's laser gun. A LV 3 lasergun is okay, but LV 4 seems to be much quicker. After all of this, I defeat Destro. Expect weird frame-by-frame actions during this Destro battle! http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/66763885/gi.joe.2.wip.C0DE.RED.fm2

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 5/28/2010 2:27 PM

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wicked

Joined: 1/22/2008
Posts: 319
Location: Brasil

nice wip

Run..Run...Run.....

Posted: 5/28/2010 2:43 PM

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Baxter

Skilled player (1402)

Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 1821

Very nice to see someone working on this again! Some parts of that last level looked a bit dodgy though. Also, not moving at the end of the first big boss would have saved at least 5 frames due to lag reduction. Anyway, keep it up :)

http://tasvideos.org/Baxter.html

Posted: 5/28/2010 3:51 PM
(Edited: 5/30/2010 3:53 AM)

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

I played more, and now I beated the game. The record so far is 08:37.75 so if anyone runs through this route again and came out with anything higher, you know something's wrong. Now I'll be seeking to investigate because there may be a flaw or two and optimization is the next step. I may need some extra eyes, be on the lookout and let me know what's better and what to avoid. I should have everything else patented down. :] http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1449025300/gi.joe.2.wip.C0DE.RED.fm2 (annoying error message) http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/5/29/2874529/gi.joe.2.wip.C0DE.RED.fm2

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 5/28/2010 4:56 PM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Ahhh of all times for my PC to be broken. I'd love to watch the run and maybe point some stuff out, but that can't happen right now. Any chance of an encode, anyone? edit: based on the filename of the wip of mine you posted as an .fm2 you're probably using the old boss strategy (which is slower). Kicking is better for bosses than punching.

Posted: 5/29/2010 2:01 AM
(Edited: 5/30/2010 3:58 AM)

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

I'll be pondering some of the alternate methods of how to quickly kill bosses and minibosses using bare-hand-LV3 kicks. There is no telling how difficult it will be to corner them, especially if they have room outside the screen to move around. There are walls in the boss rooms (Overkill, Destro, and Cobra Commander). Overkill could be easy to corner since he walks more than shooting rockets and doing stunts. For Destro and Cobra Commander, I already checked out their stunts and movements - no way. By then, Gen. Hawk's will have a level 4 laser gun. Of course, I will pull a different strategy to get a level 4 laser gun much sooner - and that is when I can defeat him in a shorter time. Inzult: Sorry to hear about your PC, man. If I have to encode, which page on here do I need to view, to try to get the best guidelines for encoding to MP4?

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 5/29/2010 6:30 AM
(Edited: 5/30/2010 3:59 AM)

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

No doubt the Overkill fight is improvable. There was luck manipulation involved as I positioned myself against the right hand wall of Overkill's room to where he has me cornered. Then I start doing a series of punches and knee-drops to knock the guy loose. A single knee-drop (best demonstrated on the final stage) pushes Gen. Hawk back. That's one thing that aggravates me about using LV4 knee drop. But in this battle, Gen. Hawk has nowhere to fall back since he is pinned against the wall. He can also score a few more punches as he tries to regroup. It took 824 frames to pwn Overkill (the WIP I posted), but here, this battle only took 747. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1074516360/overkill-LV4.fm2 (WTF?) An edit: I did it again, this time without starting off with the gun. I got to the other end quicker with that dashing drop kick! But here, the only difference is an extra 22 frames. And from the way it looks, I thought I inflicted more damage with 2 opening drop-kicks than 5 bullets anyway. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/573056155/overkill-LV4.fm2 (Grr!) I wanted to delete the old Overkill link, but I chose to leave it here for everyone to see and feel the difference.

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 5/29/2010 11:28 PM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

C0DE RED wrote:

Sorry to hear about your PC, man. If I have to encode, which page on here do I need to view, to try to get the best guidelines for encoding to MP4?

I'll ask my brother when I see him tomorrow if I can borrow his thinkpad, so don't worry about it. I'll have a look at your wips then.

Posted: 5/30/2010 3:35 AM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

Okie-doke! :) Guys, this gets even better! Now it takes 630 frames, instead of 725, to defeat Overkill. How many of you love optimization?! http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/5/29/2874529/overkill-LV4.630.fm2 I chose to use Fileden to free-host emulator movies since I had problems using Microstorage. Don't worry, it's safe.

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 5/30/2010 4:10 PM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

I was almost done with the optimization, but now I got to go back! Grr.... I found out that as long as there are not too many objects moving around the screen to cause a lag, and Gen. Hawk has LV 4 bareness; I discovered a more simple frame-by-frame punch pattern. It's kinda like the one that Inzult demonstrated, but this time, it's B-Right-B-Right-per-frame and B-Left-B-Left-per-frame depending on where these minibosses are located. I doubt that this will work on Route 01 because Gen. Hawk only had enough icons to power up to LV 3 bareness. Here's a recap of Route 01. And this time, I did a different change of plans on Route 02 - I reduced the number of bouncing power-up icons to avoid lag, got LV 4 bareness early, demonstrated the new punching pattern, and touched the second radio icon at frame 4081. On my full WIP, I didn't get to that same radio until frame 4170. http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/5/29/2874529/incomplete-053010-1.gi.joe.2.C0DE.RED.fm2

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 5/31/2010 1:02 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Alright, I watched your movie. The play is pretty good, though towards the end it got a bit sloppy. You should choose better POWs for your laser. ALSO, level 4 barehand attack makes you fall faster than just normal falling so you should get it by the time you're rescuing hostages. here's what I was talking about with using kicks: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/441660047/route1.fm2 It is your new run of run of route 1 with a different boss strategy at the end, ~26 frames faster. It could be even faster if the gun is used, I didn't use it at all. (also I didn't bother optimize the collection of the item at all). The kick strategy works on every boss, even the ones that get knocked back because you can walk forward the whole time. I'll do a demo of the next boss later if you need. When you get the laser, then you should focus on laser shots and use kicks when you have to wait to shoot in stead of punches :) Level 4 barehand does about twice the amount as the kick, so use it for the last hit to save one attack. Let me know if you have problem with mictrostorage I'll reup the file somewhere else.

Posted: 5/31/2010 4:29 AM
(Edited: 6/3/2010 11:21 PM)

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

I got your opening route, and that miniboss battle seemed quicker than the way I had it in mind. I'll have to study that. It's pretty easy to get LV4 barehand because you got 4 more POW's on Route 02. I got that covered. To me, it's crucial to collect POW's and ammunition for the laser gun once Overkill is defeated. We know that 12 POW's will put any weapon on LV4, including the laser gun. And for that, I can find 11 POW's on Route 06 (mountain climb) and then top it off with 1 more on Route 11 (going toward Area D). Inzult:There has been improvements, believe it or not. This was my progress until you volunteered that improved mini-boss battle. I went as far as Route 13 (after defeating Destro). http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/5/29/2874529/gi.joe.2.wip.2.C0DE.RED.fm2

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 6/3/2010 7:16 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Okay, so I watched your new WIP c0de red, and the level of play in this new WIP is a lot better. I don't know if you've worked on it more or if you're still working on boss strategies but I have 2 things to show you: knockback boss strategy with kicks (~100 frames faster than your newest WIP): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1941691185/boss%20strategy.fm2 ^I made a few mistakes here but it's for demonstration purposes so hopefully it gives you a better idea of what I've been trying to say about bosses. example of how barehand level 4 falling is faster than normal falling (~10 frames faster than your newest WIP): http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/437025221/falling.fm2 Otherwise, the level of play is very high, good work! I know your next version will be worth submitting to the site proper. If you have problems with dehacked's microstorage let me know and I will reupload the files.

Posted: 6/3/2010 11:41 PM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

I re-did Route 02 and tagged its radio at frame 3943. Last time, I tagged it on 4081. There were three things I had to do here. I had to put bare hands on LV4, fight the miniboss (taking damage to deal with Hawk's invisibility which I thought seemed difficult), and collect 2 POW's toward a level 2 handgun. Why level 2 handgun you may ask? To be more prepared to face a miniboss on the second floor of Area A, of course! I want to score two hits on that miniboss, for every bullet used which seems to turn things up a notch. And I can't do anything with the extra POW's I come across until I defeat Overkill anyway. http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/5/29/2874529/gi.joe2.C0DE.RED.fm2 I also came across this image contributed by calthaer if this helps any.

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 6/4/2010 6:58 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Your link doesn't work. I'd love to see your progress though! Level 2 handgun will be very useful, yes. If you can get extra POWs without too much waiting of course.

Posted: 6/5/2010 2:25 AM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

As usual, the best thing I had to do was to power up the laser gun straight to LV 4 before I reached Area D. Another thing I had to do was to collect ammunition on Route 11. There were several more boxes of ammo I was able to get, but then I would kill more frames collecting them. This is the run toward Route 11, where I tagged that radio on frame 13838 compared to 14197 last time. So far, approximately 360 frames quicker altogether. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1678691249/gi.joe2.C0DE.RED.fm2 Inzult: Looking ahead, I noticed that Gen. Hawk is given a missile launcher after defeating Destro. This will greatly impact your kicking pattern for the minibosses beyond Area D. The reason is because it will take 4 to 8 frames (instead of 2 to 4) to cycle from the laser gun back to bare hands. For this, I would really advise using the other method, the frame-by-frame punch. If you still have one of my fully-completed WIP's from before, fast forward all the way to Route 16 and try your luck against their miniboss. Maybe you might come up with something better. I think I got the rest. ;)

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 6/5/2010 4:52 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Yeah, you're right. There are too many guns for kicks to be the main strategy later on. But even so, you're using laser against most bosses, right? There might be time for 1 kick in between shots, since the gun has to cool down and everything. I haven't really taken a close look at boss invulnerability periods, but I know some weird stuff happens if you're switching from guns to barehand so maybe kicks aren't used at all after Area D... Anyway, you should be okay with punches in the worst case :) I watched your new wip, without looking too closely at exact framecounts, it looks like you're on the right track. I wasn't too sure about the boss in Area A at first but after watching a couple of times it looks ok. Keep up the good work.

Posted: 6/5/2010 3:18 PM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

But even so, you're using laser against most bosses, right?

That's only if I have enough bullets, but since I would have to give up extra frames to collect more ammo, I would lay low and conserve. It took 51 bullets to defeat the Cobra Commander, while it took 66 to set an SDA record. Would I try 48 or lower? I weigh out the options, but good question! There is a way to conserve bullets and score 3 hits per bullet, and that is a level 3 hand gun! There should be enough POW's in Route 11 to power up this weapon. If you're saying that a single kick does 3 damage and assume that a level 3 handgun does 3 damage if they all hit the same (mini)boss, then there is finally a possibility that we can optimize and proceed. :)

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 6/6/2010 8:42 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Yes, level 3 gun does 3 damage per shot if all bullets hit, same as a kick. I will look at what a level 4 laser does when I have a chance, since I forget exactly. The rate of fire of the laser is very high, though. And punch/ducking is also faster than shooting the gun for enemies that aren't knocked back anyway, and is better for conserving ammo. so level 3 gun is probably not too useful overall. MAYBE for bosses with knockback but I would think laser would be the better choice there. When I have a chance I will also look at the HPs of all the bosses for Area D and on so we can get an estimate on how much ammo you'd need.

Posted: 6/6/2010 12:50 PM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

Inzult: There is only one miniboss and one major boss on Area D, but there are several on Area F. I'm once again on Area D with two rooms left to go before I meet Destro. Now this time, I have a change of plans for Destro. That boss battle will be known as "Destro Dance Revolution" where Gen. Hawk takes the dance floor. Destro on the other hand will be a disco ball floating around the screen; Gen. Hawk must avoid this while dancing! It may take a lot of re-records just for this.

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.

Posted: 6/7/2010 6:28 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Well ok, Level 4 laser does 8 damage, same as a level 4 barehanded attack (knee drop). Level 4 laser uses 3 bullets. Minibosses in Area F: 1) 70 HP 2) 60 HP 3) 70 HP 4) 90 HP Then Cobra commander with 168 HP Which means if you want to kill all 4 minibosses with only the laser you will need 111 ammo above what you have for Cobra Commander. Minus 3 for every knee drop or 8 punches you do. So 99 ammo if you do your finishing move as a knee drop on each boss. I didn't look at how much ammo a level 3 gun uses because I think it's worthless either way.

Posted: 6/7/2010 12:22 PM

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C0DE_RED

Banned User, Former player

Joined: 5/22/2010
Posts: 80
Location: WAR TOWN, Georgia (USA)

Inzult: Yeah, those HP's sound about right! I never even bothered to see how many knee drops it took to defeat the minibosses. In that case, I'll start watching the memory addresses.

Do I look like someone who really cares what God thinks?! "GI Joe: The Atlantis Factor" - May be improved in the future.