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Posted: 6/5/2004 3:55 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Basically your either trying to complete the game as fast possible or your not, I think a run where this is the case should be made reguardless of anything else.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/5/2004 7:27 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Then make it, Herr Swiffle.
Posted: 6/5/2004 10:15 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Is anyone apposed to a completed as fast as possible run? This does not mean that other runs can't also be made.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/5/2004 11:03 PM
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BillBull
Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
I, personally, prefer fastest completion runs. I think it's cooler to see a game completed in a crazy-fast speed than to see it completed really-fast with some extra things added in to look cooler. Oh, and crazy-fast is faster than really-fast :)
Posted: 6/5/2004 11:10 PM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (768)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
Is anyone opposed to a completed as fast as possible run? This does not mean that other runs can't also be made.
What do you mean... isn't that what I'm doing? It's almost finished too.
Posted: 6/6/2004 4:18 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Not if a non-Kraid route works and is faster.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/6/2004 9:50 PM
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xebra
Joined: 5/3/2004
Posts: 1203
Read this thread in its entirety, Arc has a post detailing that he has already tested a non-Kraid route and found it to be deficient! So for the love of God stop whining about it! If you think his comprehension of your proposed route is insufficient to fully explore its time-saving potential, then make the damn video yourself! Sheesh.
Posted: 6/11/2004 11:15 PM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (768)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
I am doing this again. I have extensively thought about/studied/attempted using the door glitch, but there was only one place where it was worth trying, and it ended up being much slower than the regular way. So I am still using my original route.
Posted: 6/15/2004 3:45 AM
(Edited: 6/15/2004 8:41 PM)
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I like your v5 run a lot Arc, I never would have thought you could save 40 seconds off the route in v4. I came home this week and fired up the nes and used a password I found. I could never get the rinkas to drop anything, so if you go down to 4 missiles in tourian and can’t kill the MB or kill a metroid you have to leave Tourian, and if you used the trick to get there you kind of lose ;\ unless you can bomb boost out. There was one good thing I found though; the MB did remember her damage. So I only see one possible non-Kraid route that could work. You’d need 15 missiles so you’d have 5 lift over after destroying the 10 missile door to kill a metroid. Arc already showed the only way to get the 25 MP cluster wouldn’t work, so the plausible route I see left is: get the first MP, then go down in Norfair and get the MP to the left, then get bombs and go up and get the MP in the top row of Brinstar (I assume you can’t get this coming from the left without bombs or else Arc would have done that) (*EDIT* this would take a ridiculous bomb boost without icebeam I do believe), go back to the right, down the to the row you came in with, get the ice beam, and go to Tourian. You’d need to go back and refill off the closest metroid after killing each blockage thing, then you could fire 9 missiles at the MB each time (the glass gar replaces itself) that makes (*EDIT* you could use all 15 on the last trip) 8 trips back to kill the metroid ;\
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/15/2004 10:08 AM
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Bladegash
Former player
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
Another possible way of getting 15 missiles would be to use the 'door jump' trick to enter Kraid's lair early, without bombs, then go to the first door on the right and collect the missile pack there. After that exit and get the missile pack near Norfair, collect the bombs, then bomb jump to the upper corridor of Brinstar and collect a third missile pack on the way back. Whether this will be faster or slower than the current route or the route mentioned in the post above is yet to be determined, however.
Posted: 6/15/2004 7:47 PM
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Spider-Waffle
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Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
That door to the right is red, I don't see any MPs in Kraid's hideout you could get without bombs, icebeam, or missiles, unless that secret passage in the first door on the left doesn't require bombs. I was thinking you could skip the icebeam and bomb boost out of the lava to get to Tourian. I'm almost positive you can get that high with bomb boosts. You couldn't get more missiles off metroids without icebeam though. To complete Tourian you need at least 81 missiles by my count and Arc's route gets 80 ;\ but you could get the close MP kraid's hideout Bladegash metioned.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/15/2004 8:38 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Arc, I’m wondering if you considered using the door glitch with a different routing scheme. There are a few other options that might be faster with the aid of a door glitch: Riddley and not Kraid, at least 15 missiles and neither mini-boss, at least 85 missiles and no ice beam, both Riddley and Kraid and no ice beam and/or bombs.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/15/2004 10:02 PM
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Bladegash
Former player
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 484
Location: ­­
Oops, I forgot about the red door. Maybe the Norfair one would be preferable then.
Posted: 6/15/2004 11:00 PM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (768)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
Without the ice beam and some health, the metroids will drain Samus. Does anyone want to predict the final time for this version? I won't because I pretty much know the answer (but I'm not telling.)
Posted: 6/16/2004 3:58 AM
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Spider-Waffle
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Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I was thinking you might be able to get around them with some really nice usage of bombs and missiles. Also, they go off you if you go through a door way, maybe you can bomb open the last door while one or two of the last ones are on you. I think this might be something to consider more. For my time guess: I'm assuming your using the same route last time I would have thought 10-15 seconds could be cut and 40 were; this time I think about 5 seconds could be cut, so I'll go with 16 seconds cut.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/18/2004 11:08 PM
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Spider-Waffle
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Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I noticed you can get boosted up slightly by enimies and it works when your in a ball too. using this, I managed to get into that secret passage to the MP in the first door on the left in Kraid's hideout but you need bomb or something while in there to get make it all the way. I've got a much better idea for this though, I just tested this on a rinka. You can freeze them, get into a ball on top, and when they unfreeze you'll be boosted up. I was thinking you could use this on the trick to Tourian without having to get bombs. The enemy boost is at least 1 unit high becuase it got me into the secret passage. So as long as you could freeze the flying thing 1 unit down from the ledge and get onto top, you should be able to get in without bombs.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/19/2004 12:47 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I manged to use the door trick serveral times to get into Kraid's hideout yearly, get missles in there and get to Kraid. Was this what you did Arc that turned out to be slower? I think way I did it could be faster than what you did in v5.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 6/19/2004 1:15 AM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (768)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
Perhaps you should try to make a door-glitch-using movie that completely works out and is quicker while I am working on my current attempt.
Posted: 6/19/2004 3:12 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I don't think I'll ever work a timeattack for nes, if I did something like this I would want to get be high quality and I've never done anything like before, it's something I'd really have to get into, I'd rather leave it to the pros. I am working a HL speed run with some other guys and taking classes so I'm too busy right now anyway. I used the door trick to get down and get the high jump boots. I'm almost posistive you could instead use it to go up to the 5 MPs. You could start from the door that leads to the ice beam by getting a boost up from the wall climber. I should have metioned this in my other post, but I didn't think about it so carefully. If doing the no bomb strat, to get the ice beam you'd need to do the door trick to get down, then to get up you'd want the green flying thing to be at the top of the row when get there and it can boost you out of there. Then when you get to the place to do the trick to Tourian, I'm pretty sure you need to make a 4 unit high jump out of the lava, which I believe is 1 unit higher than is possible without high jump. I've got some ideas to get around this. You had ought to be able to get 2 flying guys in there at once if you froze 1, and had the other one come on the screen at the right time. Another way, involving just 1, would be to roll off the frozen flying guy while he's heading up, jump out, freeze him, and get on top again.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 7/8/2004 3:46 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
When's the new version expected? I'm eager to see :)
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 7/8/2004 5:34 PM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (768)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
I'm at the entrance to Tourian. It will be about another week. It's going very well.
Posted: 7/8/2004 10:40 PM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Do you think you'll do a door glitch run sometime?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 7/10/2004 3:15 AM
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Arc
Editor, Experienced player (768)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
NES TAS of 2021
Not any time soon.
Posted: 7/12/2004 9:42 AM
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Spider-Waffle
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
If you, or someone else wants to get around to it, if you could direct me to the forum rules I could help figure out the potentials and details more precisely for you. Edited by Bisqwit: As stated by people after this post.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Posted: 7/12/2004 12:26 PM
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Nach
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Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
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Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
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