Topic by fuwafuwa

Posted: 12/8/2004 1:57 AM

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fuwafuwa

Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95

Boco wrote:

Some of your gain rates are wrong.

Check out the Algorithm FAQ by BSiron (simply labeled as FAQ): http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/nes/game/7721.html Numbers for everything. Sadly, though, most stats don't mean a whole lot.. the biggest advantage is that you should be able to always force high-HP gains, which (by L15ish) would be on the order of 100+ HP per character (versus a normal game).

Posted: 12/8/2004 2:00 AM

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qbproger

Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 69

I don't know if you've read all the faqs on gamefaqs, but the single white mage run talks about stat manipulation. It says to save before leveling up because the white mage has a 50% chance of getting STR. So if you don't get it just go back to the save point, and level up again. So, I think it's just random whether you get a specific stat or not at the time of level up.

Posted: 12/8/2004 2:15 AM

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Boco

Former player

Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination

qbproger wrote:

So, I think it's just random whether you get a specific stat or not at the time of level up.

Not quite. There is a specific list of stats that increase at specific levels. Every stat that isn't "forced" to increase has a 50% chance to increase. The list is on GameFAQs in the larger "Character Guide" which is actually an algorithms guide.

someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.

Posted: 12/8/2004 3:57 AM

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qbproger

Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 69

for the white mage the STR would be one of those. It can be played with a bit...

Posted: 12/8/2004 4:05 AM

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Paulygon

Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California

To manipulate the stat gains (and HP gains for strong level-ups only), it's all in the timing with the last command you give in the final battle round. Once you choose that final command, I think your stat gains are set in stone. It's like trying to get a good outcome for a battle round in addition to also trying to roll for the desired stat increases (i.e. that much more that has to go right). For HP gains, classes have "strong" level-ups or "weak" ones. It's not possible to manipulate this, AFAIK. For weak, the amount of HP you get is always Vitality divided by 4 (drop remainder) + 1. For strong, you get the same thing, plus a bonus amount, which is random between 20-25. The random amount can be manipulated, as described above. FAST doubles the number of hits only, which is always based on hit % divided by 32. SABR is supposed to increase your hit % in addition to damage, while TMPR increases damage only, but neither works for players. Even if you could increase your hit % in this way, it wouldn't affect your number of hits.. just increases accuracy. Too high of a level required for SABR in such a run, so it's a moot point anyway. Also, somebody mentioned using SLEP. You can, but just know that it's buggy. When it works, the affected enemy always wakes on their next turn. At best, it will give you a free hit against that enemy.. at worst, they would wake up before anyone got to hit them.

Posted: 12/8/2004 6:44 PM

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fuwafuwa

Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95

Paulygon wrote:

For HP gains, classes have "strong" level-ups or "weak" ones. It's not possible to manipulate this, AFAIK.

Is this hardcoded in the game, or is it something that could be manipulated via name selection/character order? Can someone with more free time on their hands test and find out?

Posted: 12/8/2004 10:54 PM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Paulygon wrote:

To manipulate the stat gains (and HP gains for strong level-ups only), it's all in the timing with the last command you give in the final battle round...

That pretty much answers my question. I just wasn't sure if it was decided in battle or when the game is turned on. Pretty well everything seems to be determined by those 2 factors. But also, I'm trying to not have the next fight be a monster strikes first situation. Or at least, I will pay more attention to that than before in the next movie. Even more that has to go right. Also, since SLEP only lasts one round, it's not worth the time to get. Although, FEAR might be something worth considering, in the case that I can't run from an enemy.

Posted: 12/9/2004 9:27 AM

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Paulygon

Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California

Each level-up for each character class has several characteristics that are explicitly defined and do not ever vary... the exp required for the next level, the spell levels that will be increased, the weak/strong factor, and certain stat increases. You can see all of this in FF Hackster. The only things that are variable at level-up are the HP bonus for strong level-ups, and the non-guaranteed stats (as boco said). Fear might be a good option.. each type of enemy has a certain "morale" level that's associated with them (see hackster again for actual values :). The level of the lead character is the main factor. The formula is equivalent to this: Morale - (2 * LeadCharacterLevel) + Random(0 to 50). If this number is less than 80, the enemy will run.. otherwise it will not. This check is performed for each enemy once per round. The FEAR spell reduces the affected enemy's morale by 40, which has a noticeable effect on most enemies. If an enemy has high morale, though, this reduction may still not be enough for them to even have a chance to run. Also, some enemies have high magic resistance, so will require additional manipulation of luck to get it to work. The effect does stack, so repeated successful applications will reduce morale further, yielding ever-higher chances of running.

Posted: 12/9/2004 9:48 AM

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BoltR

Former player

Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada

Does the Morale check apply to bosses? If so would it technically be possible to make them run from you?

Posted: 12/9/2004 2:22 PM

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Bob_Whoops

Former player

Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA

Yes, it does apply to them. The only problem is that they all have 255, so it's never going to happen. Unless you edit that number: http://geocities.com/ffpizzawarriors/run.html

Posted: 12/9/2004 2:35 PM
(Edited: 12/9/2004 3:19 PM)

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Bisqwit

Editor, Active player (296)

Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth

So you'd need to be at least level 113 for the boss to even consider running, if you don't use Fear. I created a program which will calculate the chances of the enemy running away from battle depending on player level and the number of Fear spells used, assuming the formula posted is correct and assuming the range of random numbers (0..50) is inclusive. http://bisqwit.iki.fi/src/ffcalc.zip Example usage:

$ ./ffcalc 100
for morale=100
p-level fear*0  fear*1
1       -       44.0%
2       -       48.0%
3       -       52.0%
4       -       56.0%
5       -       60.0%
6       -       64.0%
7       -       68.0%
8       -       72.0%
9       -       76.0%
10      -       80.0%
11      4.0%    84.0%
12      8.0%    88.0%
13      12.0%   92.0%
14      16.0%   96.0%
15      20.0%   always
16      24.0%   always
17      28.0%   always
18      32.0%   always
19      36.0%   always
20      40.0%   always
21      44.0%   always
22      48.0%   always
23      52.0%   always
24      56.0%   always
25      60.0%   always
26      64.0%   always
27      68.0%   always
28      72.0%   always
29      76.0%   always
30      80.0%   always
31      84.0%   always
32      88.0%   always
33      92.0%   always
34      96.0%   always
35      always  always
36      always  always
37      always  always
38      always  always
39      always  always
40      always  always
41      always  always
42      always  always
43      always  always
44      always  always
45      always  always
46      always  always
47      always  always
48      always  always
49      always  always
50      always  always

Posted: 12/9/2004 2:44 PM

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Bob_Whoops

Former player

Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA

But you can only reach level 50.

Posted: 12/9/2004 10:06 PM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Paulygon wrote:

Morale - (2 * LeadCharacterLevel) + Random(0 to 50). If this number is less than 80, the enemy will run.. otherwise it will not. This check is performed for each enemy once per round. The FEAR spell reduces the affected enemy's morale by 40, which has a noticeable effect on most enemies. If an enemy has high morale, though, this reduction may still not be enough for them to even have a chance to run. Also, some enemies have high magic resistance, so will require additional manipulation of luck to get it to work. The effect does stack, so repeated successful applications will reduce morale further, yielding ever-higher chances of running.

So a party at level 14 with a White Mage—with 4 charges of FEAR—could make, say, Chaos run if all 4 charges hit. (24% chance) Further, a WM and a RM at level 11, with 5 charges of FEAR combined could make Chaos run fairly easily, if all 5 charges hit. (92% chance :O!) Titilating! However, one use of BANE would still kill chaos in 1 hit. But It's still interesting to think about making that fat bastid run away. The strategy is plausable for, say, Kraken, if I can work a trip back to Elfland into the plan. Does anyone know if the HOLD spell automatically wears off after x number of rounds?

Posted: 12/10/2004 3:59 AM

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Paulygon

Joined: 4/6/2004
Posts: 74
Location: California

As far as I can tell, it doesn't. I tried it on some cobras and got it to last at least 10 rounds. One time it wore off, but a little luck manipulation got the paralysis to persist, instead.

Posted: 12/10/2004 8:02 AM

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TheAxeMan

Ambassador, Experienced player (696)

Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE

FEAR is level 4 and can only be used by a white mage/wizard. I don't see it being useful considering other options. I will vouch for HOLD though, I've messed around and had an enemy stunned for quite a while. It's level 3 black magic and can be used by red and black mage/wiz and also ninjas. If you want to talk about status effects, what about the wizard staff? You could confuse Chaos and make him kill himself! You'll have to visit that treasure room anyway, and you can use the item as much as you want then. I know confuse lasts multiple turns, and the enemy stays confused even if you hit him or he hits himself. If you build up to level 12 you can cast the BANE spell. It's level 5 black, usable as black mage (or red mage at higher level). Likely targets would be Kraken and the blue dragon in Mirage Tower. This would take you to getting Bane sword and then it would be free. By the way, is it confirmed that BANE works on everyone? I've never tried it on Chaos, but some pretty trustworthy faqs seem to say that some enemies are immune, including Chaos and Kary.

Posted: 12/10/2004 1:40 PM

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OmegaFlareX

Joined: 7/20/2004
Posts: 108

TheAxeMan wrote:

By the way, is it confirmed that BANE works on everyone?

Yes, it has been. Further back in the thread:

Paulygon wrote:

With the proper luck, you can Bane any enemy. Nothing is totally immune to anything in this game.. from what I understand (from other ASM hackers at the gamefaqs FF1 message board), the lowest probability of success is 3/256.

Posted: 12/10/2004 2:27 PM

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Bob_Whoops

Former player

Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA

Does FEAR actually work on bosses? I don't think that the game allows bosses to run.

Posted: 12/10/2004 9:24 PM

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Zoizite

Former player

Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.

The first time I ever beat FF1, I killed chaos with RUB, so I'd imagine BANE would work as well. I got pretty damned lucky.

If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.

Posted: 12/10/2004 10:07 PM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

TheAxeMan wrote:

FEAR is level 4 and can only be used by a white mage/wizard. I don't see it being useful considering other options...

Whoops, RM can't use it... Ah well, I do concede that it's not useful, considering other options. I was just... musing. Nerdishly.

TheAxeMan wrote:

...If you want to talk about status effects, what about the wizard staff?...

Yeah, it'll hopefully save me some trouble (and HP) vs some bosses and any monsters I can't run from. It'll definately tide me over until I get the BANE sword.

TheAxeMan wrote:

...If you build up to level 12 you can cast the BANE spell. It's level 5 black, usable as black mage (or red mage at higher level)...

In my current run, getting to level 12 won't be a problem. However, I'm already past Crecent Lake. A second stop would take some time... besides, I'll have FAST and probably the Wizard Staff for Kraken, and for the Blue D. That should be sufficient. In my next movie, I plan on being in an even lower level, and money will be even tighter. I have what treasure chests I'm going for planned out, and unless I run into lots of Wizards, I won't have enough. Edit: Level 5 magic. Melmond. Have to go back for the SLAB. Brain: Damaged. Possibility to use in current run: High. Possibility for brain to work: low.

Posted: 12/11/2004 3:39 AM

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TheAxeMan

Ambassador, Experienced player (696)

Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE

Well, if you get BANE after you go back to Melmond with the SLAB then you'll barely get any use before you get bane sword. I guess you should be all right with the waterfall treasure, but I was thinking in the future you would get this on your way to or from earth cave. If you aren't going to hit level 12 then never mind. Also, I was wondering what treasure you're planning on getting? At least one of the Cardia islands has a 5-figure stash which might be worthwhile.

Posted: 12/11/2004 4:10 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

I don't really need money for anything any more... besides the proring... should I make a special trip? Anyway; I doubt I'll hit level 16, so level 6+ spells are out. Maybe I'll pick up Fir3 on my way back through melmond, but I already have 8000 bux, so no money needed there. So getting more boxes depends on proring. For the future run, though, I've been thinking... If I equip my fighters with bracelets in stead of armor, and manipulate stat bonuses on level ups, I can rely heavily on evade and have a backup decent-level absorb. Combined with a spell like SLOW, to reduce enemies Hit%, I can give myself yet another way to stretch out the HPs. The only drawback is it takes additional cash monies to buy those bracelets, as the Opal Bracelet is the only one which is really on the way, leaving me to need to buy a Gold Bracelet or two. Also, it leaves me near-naked for a long time. Sheilds are safe, as they don't lower evade, the helmet of choice is, of course, the ribbon. Also, the proring would be ideal (but again, costly since there's only really 1 to be found along the way). This would only be a sacrifice of 3 evade for a max. of 55 absorb. 55 is the highest I can obtain without a Knight anyway. (Assuming I want the ribbon equipped. Which I do.) Of course, there's only 1 opal bracelet, so everyone else will get the hard and slippery, but the first fighter takes the brunt of the blows anyway... so, I beleive it's a fair tradeoff. Any thoughts?

Posted: 12/11/2004 4:54 AM

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TheAxeMan

Ambassador, Experienced player (696)

Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE

I agree, opal bracelet will probably be the leader's armor, and since he will take 50% of the attacks (even more if you have someone dead), this will help a lot. I was wondering if prorings would be doable, it would require quite a bit of money. What if you did Gurgu Volcano before visiting Gaia? You would have to do it without some useful items, but you could get a pretty nice chunk of cash. Say, how do you plan on getting past the lava? I think with one hp you can just keep walking and you don't encounter any enemies, so going over as much of it as possible would be faster. It seems the only in-dungeon healing you'll come across is going to be a heal helmet from floating castle, unless you buy heal potions. Both are s...l...o...w. Is no-damage combat reasonable? In Gurgu there are quite a few not-too-tough fights with high payouts if you can manage it. But it seems that it would just be so much easier to wait until you have Bane sword, Kary would be a bitch to kill without it. Wow, there sure are a lot of things to worry about, huh?

Posted: 12/12/2004 12:17 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

In the sea shrine, I ran into some R Sahags and some Wz Sahags, and I don't seem to be able to run. Once again, Lit2 would be of use. Otherwise, this fight will take... well, a long time. -1 for the FAST/bm strategy.

Posted: 12/12/2004 12:40 AM

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NecroVMX

Player (70)

Joined: 8/13/2004
Posts: 205

making chaos run? that would mess up the game, no? would he go through his entire disentigration process? that's sort of a scripted event, that killing him starts, how would it work if you made him run?

Posted: 12/12/2004 7:46 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

I got off my posterior and beat the sea shrine. Then I ran into more enemeis I can't run from. You don't know how annoying it is to constantly have to fight monsters you can't beat. Anyway... I grabbed some boxes, so I should have enoungh for 3 prorings. Gaia is close enough to Leifin that stopping to buy them won't be too much trouble. The Kraken fight was fun. Wee. Anyway, I'm pushing an hour and a half. My original goal was to pass the game in under 3 hours. Under 2 is now all too realistic. I'm leaving town for 3 days, so, uh, this is my progress thus far, and it shall not budge for that time. That is all.