The 0x65C you want, is it a Move ID or a value you'd like to form using a nickname ?
Would your method also use Glitch Move with animation pointers on saved data, or would you use a pointer to the nickname of a PC Pokémon (in RAM) ?
Decamark, using the old box method. It's the same decamark ZZAZZ used in his original ACE save file. I'm just having trouble glitzer popping it :/
It could probably be repurposed for use with a glitch move, but I wrote that code before this was discovered
Metarkrai wrote:
Would it be possible to program longer jumps (mainly towards PC Items) using nicknames, or would the amount of characters limit the jumps too much ?
Depends on where you start from. Using relative branch instructions, you can go pretty far, but like you said it's very restricted
Another possibility is jumping to box nicknames instead. The way box nicknames laid out in the savedata, you could start from box 1's and end at box 14's without ever jumping in-between. Plus, you don't need to catch any extra Pokémon
EDIT: Oh, or you could just start in save section 0xD and execute a ton of 00000000's until you reach the box nicknames
Metarkrai wrote:
If you could use all possible values for every byte of your instructions (instead of only values from characters), would that reduce the amount of required nicknames for such a corruption ? (or for a corruption that would set a specific flag, or change a specific byte)
0x1
It could potentially be pushed lower, but the only improvements I know of are converting it to TAS strats. I haven't explored the possibilities, but at the least LDR and SBC could be replaced by a single MOV, provided you know the new checksum. Also, SWI could be replaced with a hard reset, bringing it down to 5 instructions
Metarkrai wrote:
Also, as credits seem to be triggered by the command special 0x113 (accordig to XSE), would it be easier to directly trigger that command/thing instead of performing a teleport towards HoF ?
Oh okay, you were mainly working with the first method using a Glitch Pokémon summary.
PC Pokemon corruption has been improved, and obtaining a specific Glitch Pokémon/Item/Move is now way easier in many ways.
This one will easily allow you to get 0x65C : http://pastebin.com/2kJpBQCr
Other Pokémon than in-game traded Pokémon can also be used if they have a specific PID (PID completely determines the way the data substructures of the Pokémon are swapped once PID is corrupted), but in-game traded Pokémon are easy to use (or Smeargles).
From what I saw in Thezzazz video, using things like built-in scripts wouldn't work with the Glitch Pokémon summary method because you're forced to reset/the game resets itself after a short amount of time.
However, it would be interesting for with the glitch move animation method because calling these scripts could maybe be faster than changing a value at a specific adress (like using a setflag command instead of changing the byte where the flag is stored)
Using Glitch Move Animation Pointers would allow for other manipulations that don't require you to change the save file data, but the beginning values can't be obtained with nicknames only.
However, as this method would be really useful in speedrun and for console, I am trying to get information about the ways to code similar instructions on PC Pokémon data (with strings of 8 bytes that can be "fully" manipulated, 10 bytes on some cases).
For a TAS, obtaining Glitch Pokémon 0x65C would require 3-4 Pomeg Glitches (at least 1-2 with a corruption initiator) with a really small training (having 0x65C exp on a Pokémon with a certain PID).
That sounds amazing! :o
Could there please be a video guide of those steps as well? I'm tempted to try it, but I once accidentally deleted a pokemon from emerald cloning due to messing up a step, so a visual guide that I can compare to what I'm doing would really help.
Also:
Glitch Pokemon can't be transferred to 4th Gen.
I wonder how they check it? Do they simply check the pokemon's ID number or something?
And uh....I wonder what happens if you traded a glitch pokemon to XD/Colosseum.
That sounds amazing! :o
Could there please be a video guide of those steps as well? I'm tempted to try it, but I once accidentally deleted a pokemon from emerald cloning due to messing up a step, so a visual guide that I can compare to what I'm doing would really help.
I have a video for an older procedure I had, but I don't have a video who shows the steps of the pastebin being done. That's why I tried to be quite explanative in rder to compensate for that (and for people that couldn't see my video if I were to make one).
But if you have issues with some steps or if you don't understand what I meant, feel free to ask (here, or on the video, or on skype) and I'll gladly help you.
For cloning :
-make a party with 1/2 Pokémon
- Put the Pokémon you want to clone in your PC (up to 5 if you have 1 Pokémon in your party, 4 if you have 2) and save
- Withdraw the Pokémon you want to clone
Don't deposit any other party Pokémon
- Go talk to the Battle Tower receptionist and choose 2 Pokémon to enter
Right before making a big save, the game makes a small save where party Pokémon (and other small things related to battle frontier data) are saved.
- When the game asks you to save, reset.
- You'll end up in front of the receptionist with the Pokémon in your party and in your PC.
And yeah, if you do it backwards (saving when the Pokémon are in your party, and depositing them afterwards), you'll lose them.
This method is useful to discard Eggs/Bad Eggs you obtain with Pomeg Glitch.
You can also obtain Glitch Pokémon that help in performing a faster and easier cloning method (like 0x288A for US Emerald). They can serve for cloning and discarding Pokémon.
They are really useful in FrLg as there is no other cloning/discarding method.
jlun2 wrote:
Also:
Glitch Pokemon can't be transferred to 4th Gen.
I wonder how they check it? Do they simply check the pokemon's ID number or something?
From what I saw, I think they have a correspondance table between Gen 3 identifiants and Gen 4 identifiants (because Pokémon 252-386 have an identifiant that isn't their Dex number as Game Freak left unused Unown placeholders between Celebi and Treecko, and because Hoenn Pokémon identifiants don't respect the Pokédex order too).
And all Pokémon with identifiants that aren't in this table are blocked from transferring. (Some of them don't even appear on Pal Park)
But I have another hypothesis that will need another test because I didn't check that.
It would be the recognition of the Pokémon using their National Dex number in the Gen III cartridge. (The game checks the Dex number linked to the species to determine which Pokémon he has in front of him)
As I didn't check the Nat Dex number of the Glitch Pokémon I tried transferring, I don't know if they were between 1 and 386 or way higher/0.
There is also a correspondance table for Items, and nearly all Glitch Items will either be prevented from transfer (the game says that the Pokémon can't be trasnferred, like if he knew a HM), or not appear on the Pokémon.
Some Glitch Items with low IDs (IDs that are between valid Items IDs) were recognized, but I misclicked to tell the guard to directly sent them to my Bag and saved before realizing my mistake.
Thus I don't know what were the items my Pokémon were holding once transferred (but that wasn't Glitch Items).
Luckily, Moves aren't checked at all (unless my tests for lucky), and you can transfer any Glitch Move you'd like.
I only did a few tests for Pal Park transfer, so I might have missed some interactions with Glitch Poké/Items and Pal Park.
jlun2 wrote:
And uh....I wonder what happens if you traded a glitch pokemon to XD/Colosseum.
Someone tested it, but I don't remember what he said about Glitch Pokémon on XD/Colosseum nor where he said it. (probably on the glitchcity topic about Pomeg Glitch, but I don't know in what page it would be)
And uh....I wonder what happens if you traded a glitch pokemon to XD/Colosseum.
Someone tested it, but I don't remember what he said about Glitch Pokémon on XD/Colosseum nor where he said it. (probably on the glitchcity topic about Pomeg Glitch, but I don't know in what page it would be)
Don't think that would always be the case, since I'm aware (for XD) there's that Bingo minigame where you play as a munchlax. While normally impossible to obtain outside it, glitched may allow it to be possible. Maybe.
the fact that they have a model for munchlax on XD doesn't mean it has an adress as usable poké in a 3rd gen game,it's like saying any actor model in the game necessarily has a pokémon counterpart in the adress table,if that's what you're implying.
Sorry if this goes offtopic,but back in topic,is there any expectation that these tricks might be usable in RTA runs or is it TAS only because of the memory allocation changing for the saved files?
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
IIRC, unlike Bonsly, which is available in Battle Bingo, Munchlax is never programmed to be used in battle. Maybe you are talking about Bonsly?
Back on topic, does this method of ACE have the potential to give the player 4 stars on trainer card right away?
the fact that they have a model for munchlax on XD doesn't mean it has an adress as usable poké in a 3rd gen game,it's like saying any actor model in the game necessarily has a pokémon counterpart in the adress table,if that's what you're implying.
Sorry if this goes offtopic,but back in topic,is there any expectation that these tricks might be usable in RTA runs or is it TAS only because of the memory allocation changing for the saved files?
Idk if this is accurate for console, but on emulator the save always starts out with a certain layout. I.e. the first save starts with section 0xD, the second starts with 0xC, the third with 0xB, and so on. After the first section, the sections ascend, looping back to 0 after 0xD, until all sections are written.
Therefore, if you save the same number of times every run, the savedata will always have the same layout, and thus ACE will always be first try.
According to TheZZAZZGlitch's video, when creating the save, the first segment is chosen randomly, and each save shifts every segment right by two segments (ie 23456789ABCD would turn into 0123456789ABCD).
For normal players, there is a 1/2 chance that 0 will never be the first segment no matter what. But no video game randomness is TAS-proof, so that's no problem for us.
According to TheZZAZZGlitch's video, when creating the save, the first segment is chosen randomly, and each save shifts every segment right by two segments (ie 23456789ABCD would turn into 0123456789ABCD).
For normal players, there is a 1/2 chance that 0 will never be the first segment no matter what. But no video game randomness is TAS-proof, so that's no problem for us.
I don't think any memory addresses are involved, just the randomness routine.
Wait, isn't it glitched in Emerald ? (Like, always being reseeded... Can't remember for sure)
Instead of choosing a different seed each time the game boots up (and by extension, a different sequence of pseudo-random numbers), Emerald always sets its seed as 0. This means that every time the game starts, the same numbers are always output in the same order. In an attempt to hide this, Emerald asks its RNG to spit out numbers at a considerable pace; approximately 60 times per second. Each of these instances is known as a "frame".
At first glance, battle videos don't appear to have any useful purpose, other than for entertainment. However, a video can be used to save and restore a specific PRNG value. Using a battle video allows cart players to reach frames that were once thought to be out of reach, as one can advance to a very high frame and save a value within quick reach of the target frame.
http://www.smogon.com/ingame/rng/emerald_rng_intro#battlevideos
In terms of a TAS of the battle frontier, that actually sounds (potentially) helpful, since someone mentioned the battle frontier rng cannot be manipulated during the battles, so if I understand this right, the battle videos can be used to "save" a good RNG.
In terms of a TAS of the battle frontier, that actually sounds (potentially) helpful, since someone mentioned the battle frontier rng cannot be manipulated during the battles, so if I understand this right, the battle videos can be used to "save" a good RNG.
Using a Battle Video to manipulate RNg would take too much time instead of waiting for a few/dozen of frames to get different opponents, or good move choices in Battle Palace.
As Glitch Moves (OHKO glitch move and Instant Flee Glitch move) would be used in Battle Frontier facilities (with some other moves to kill Steelix, Shuckle, and Shedinja of Frontier Brains), most of the manipulation would be to obtain Pokémon that are quick to kill (with a certain amount of HP to minimize the lenght of the HP loss animation, modulo the lenght of the Pokémon's cry) out of the possible pools (these pools depend on the facility you're in and on the value of your win streak),get an use of the OHKO Glitch Move in Battle Palace, and to get good layouts in Battle Pyramid.
A visit to the Move Deleter could be done before Battle Palace if it takes too many frames to get battles where the OHKO Glitch Move is picked consecutively 3 times (the Pokémon who woul know that move would also have 2 other offensive moves, Hydro Pump and Air Cutter).
The chane to use the OHKO Glitch Move in that situation is a bit higher than 1/4, which means 1/64 chance to get it 3 times, so an average of 64 frames to wait per fight, which means around 2240 frames = 37.33 seconds of waiting for all Battle Palace fights.
grassini wrote:
Sorry if this goes offtopic,but back in topic,is there any expectation that these tricks might be usable in RTA runs or is it TAS only because of the memory allocation changing for the saved files?
By using a Glitch Move animation instead of a Glitch Pokémon summary, and with some luck/manipulation regarding save positioning, using nicknames of PC Pokémon could be used in RTA.
With more time and more manipulations, Pyramid Bag Items and PC items could be used to write code in order to obtain all Dex entries, all Battle Frontier symbols, and all contest paintings.
It would take some time to obtaind the glitch items and their quantities, as well as some PC Pokémon with specific data (the glitch move animation pointer would point there in order to be more reliable than one on saved data), but that would still be faster than beating all Battle Frontier facilities and catching/evolving/hatching Pokémon for Dex entries.
Fortranm wrote:
Back on topic, does this method of ACE have the potential to give the player 4 stars on trainer card right away?
Yeah, I think that it would be possible.
For Pokedex entries, you would need to write a lot of FF in 4 (or 5) different RAM areas.
For Battle Frontier symbols, 3-4 FF would be enough.
And for contest paintings, I don't exactly remember the values that can trigger them, but some Pomeg Glitches could be enough.
If commands to write FF on a block of a certain amount of bytes can be done, then obtaining all the Dex entries wouldn't be a hassle to do.
As for XD/Colosseum or Pal Park transfer, if someone has the material to make a Pokémon transfer (and to use .sav files for Gen 3 games), I can provide a save with Glitch Pokémon, Moves, Items to test the transfers more deeply.
According to TheZZAZZGlitch's video, when creating the save, the first segment is chosen randomly, and each save shifts every segment right by two segments (ie 23456789ABCD would turn into 0123456789ABCD).
For normal players, there is a 1/2 chance that 0 will never be the first segment no matter what. But no video game randomness is TAS-proof, so that's no problem for us.
What? It isn't a valid save file if any sections are missing. It would be 23456789ABCD01.
Anyway, I cannot reproduce this. From my testing, every two saves always shift the sections right by two, and the second save always starts on 0xC. My initial testing was on no$gba, but I tried it a few times on mGBA to confirm.
According to TheZZAZZGlitch's video, when creating the save, the first segment is chosen randomly, and each save shifts every segment right by two segments (ie 23456789ABCD would turn into 0123456789ABCD).
For normal players, there is a 1/2 chance that 0 will never be the first segment no matter what. But no video game randomness is TAS-proof, so that's no problem for us.
What? It isn't a valid save file if any sections are missing. It would be 23456789ABCD01.
https://twitter.com/GoddessMaria15/status/756976034877145089
So GoddessMaria has started working on another Emerald run?
Coincidentally, I was route planning for a glitchless run with Makuhita/Hariyama as the main battle Pokemon. If you are doing a glitchless run, would you like to collaborate?
It's nice to see Machop in action again 7 years after [923] GBA Pokémon: Sapphire Version by FractalFusion in 1:35:07.97. Have you considered catching a Makuhita in Granite Cave though? It evolves earlier than Machop does, and Hariyama's attack is even higher than that of Machoke.
I don't have time to watch the movie at the moment, but how come (briefly skipping to the end) you're not at the halfway mark of the game, yet the Sapphire/Ruby run is around that same point 10 minutes earlier? Are the additional content in Emerald that great an impact on a TAS?
Not to offend or anything, just really curious.
It's nice to see Machop in action again 7 years after [923] GBA Pokémon: Sapphire Version by FractalFusion in 1:35:07.97. Have you considered catching a Makuhita in Granite Cave though? It evolves earlier than Machop does, and Hariyama's attack is even higher than that of Machoke.
The main problem with Makuhita/Hariyama is their poor movepool. This was also brought up in the Ruby/Sapphire thread ages ago before Machop/Machoke was used. Even if Hariyama has much higher base Attack than Machoke, it can't make good use of it.
jlun2 wrote:
I don't have time to watch the movie at the moment, but how come (briefly skipping to the end) you're not at the halfway mark of the game, yet the Sapphire/Ruby run is around that same point 10 minutes earlier? Are the additional content in Emerald that great an impact on a TAS?
Not to offend or anything, just really curious.
No offense taken! :)
There are many reasons why Emerald will end up a bit longer than Ruby/Sapphire and I will explain as much as I can. This includes the version differences.
* The way some trainers work in Ruby/Sapphire are different from Emerald.
- The Rich Boy and Lady trainers in Route 104 switched places in Emerald.
- The Twins on the bridge in Route 104 do not bother you at all in Ruby/Sapphire, but they will challenge you if you have at least 2 Pokémon active in your party in Emerald.
- Gym Leader Roxanne has 2 Pokémon in her party (a Geodude and a Nosepass) on Ruby/Sapphire. In Emerald, she has 3 Pokémon in her party (2 Geodude and the Nosepass).
- In Route 116, 2 additional trainers were added and 1 of them is mandatory to battle (Hiker Clark). Abra is also available here as an added encounter in Emerald while it's exclusive only to Granite Cave in Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Ruby/Sapphire, you don't get auto healed by Mr. Stone, you can immediately leave after exiting the Devon Co. building, and Brendan/May won't bother you at all when you are leaving Rustboro City. In Emerald, you get auto healed by Mr. Stone, you get stopped to be given the Match Call function for the Pokénav, and Brendan/May will stop you if you try to leave Rustboro City first without talking to him/her first.
- In Route 104 going to Mr. Briney cabin, you proceed to enter without interruption in Ruby/Sapphire. In Emerald, however, you can only enter it normally if you spoke to Brendan/May in Rustboro City otherwise he/she will appear there instead.
- In Route 105, you are stopped by a call from your Dad (Norman) in Emerald. This does not happen in Ruby/Sapphire.
- When talking to Steven in Granite Cave, he gives you his Pokénav number in Emerald as well as the usual delivery of the Letter from Ruby/Sapphire.
- Dewford Gym is changed between Ruby/Sapphire and Emerald. Ruby/Sapphire has you battle a Battle Girl first before getting to Brawly, but he has 2 Pokémon in his party. You can just battle the Gym Leader in Emerald, but he has 3 Pokémon in his party this time and they are higher leveled than Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Emerald, the ace Pokémon of the Gym Leaders are holding items and are higher leveled (except Roxanne's Nosepass which is equal and Wattson's Magneton whose place is changed and is a level lower now) from Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Emerald, you are stopped in Route 110 by Professor Birch, who gives you his number and asks about Brendan/May. This does not happen in Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Route 110, 3 trainers were added and the places of 3 were changed in Emerald with 4 of the Trainers being mandatory battles. In Ruby/Sapphire, they are all optional.
- Exclusive to Pokémon Emerald is an NPC named Scott who appears in various places to talk to you throughout your journey. After getting his number, he will call you occasionally to talk about your progress in the game. Places he appears at to talk to you are the following: Petalburg City (as you leave), Slateport City (after leaving the Museum), Mauville City (after defeating Wally), and Route 119 (after defeating Brendan/May). Other times, he calls you to talk about your increasing progress.
- Emerald suffers from lag in places like the menu while this isn't the case in Ruby/Sapphire.
- The puzzle in the Mauville City Gym works differently in Emerald than Ruby/Sapphire thus making it possible to battle just 1 trainer and Wattson as opposed to Ruby/Sapphire's 2 with Wattson.
- In Route 111, Cooltrainer Brooke is mandatory in Ruby/Sapphire and an optional in Emerald.
- In Route 114, Hiker Lucas is an optional in Ruby/Sapphire and mandatory in Emerald.
- In Route 115, there are 2 additional trainers are optionals (although if going the same path as Ruby/Sapphire, they become mandatory). These trainers are not present in Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Rusturf Tunnel, Hiker Mike is an optional in Ruby/Sapphire. For Emerald, however, his view radius increases by 2 tiles making him mandatory.
- The layout for Jagged Pass is different in Emerald than Ruby/Sapphire.
- Gym Leader Flannery has a different roster in Emerald than Ruby/Sapphire.
- Gym Leader Wattson has a different roster in Emerald than Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Petalburg City Gym, Cooltrainer [M] George and Cooltrainer [M] Berke have Linoone and Zangoose respectively while those trainers uses Slakoth and Vigoroth respectively in Emerald.
- Gym Leader Norman has a different roster in Emerald than Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Emerald, Wally's Dad will come to the Gym Leader Room to take you back to Wally's house to give you HM03 Surf. In Ruby/Sapphire, you have to walk all the way out on your own to get it from Wally's Dad.
- In Route 103 (East), the Twins Liv & Viv will battle you if you move directly in front of them in Emerald. This is not the case in Ruby/Sapphire.
- In Route 118 (East), 1 trainer was added into Emerald with 2 trainers being mandatory in Emerald: Youngster Deandre and Aroma Lady Rose. In Ruby/Sapphire, Deandre isn't present and Aroma Lady Rose is an optional.
- In Route 119, 2 additional trainers were added into Emerald and one of them makes the otherwise clear path in Ruby/Sapphire a mandatory one if you go that direction.
- There is one less Magma/Aqua Grunt present in the second floor of the Weather Institute in Ruby/Sapphire and the extra Aqua Grunt in Emerald is mandatory.
- In Emerald after defeating Aqua Admin Shelly, an Aqua Grunt quickly comes to inform Shelly that Team Magma has went past them going to Mt. Pyre. When you are given the Castform, you are given the option to give it a nickname. These do not happen in Ruby/Sapphire.
- There aren't any trainers blocking your way outside of Tall Grass in Ruby/Sapphire. In Emerald, there are a few trainers that do.
- All gyms have a different layout in Emerald than Ruby/Sapphire.
- Both Team Magma and Team Aqua are the antagonists in Emerald while there's only one specific to their version in Ruby/Sapphire.
Phew...! That's a hell of a lot and there's still much more to list... Anyway, these should hopefully clear up why Emerald cannot be compared to Ruby/Sapphire as there are too many differences and changes between them. This should also clear up why the WIP is slower than that of the Sapphire run from 7 years ago.
~GoddessMaria
Thanks for the explanation.
Have you considered getting Secret Power? It seems you fought the optional trainer in the tunnel in order to get Strength early in every run so far. Secret Power's base power is only lowered than that of Strength by 10. Maybe it can work as the substitute for Strength before you get Fly.
the problem i see with secret power is :
1manipulating for no effects in case you don't ohko and don't need the effects given,terrain might not give what you'd want anyway
2the fact it's not necessary to the story
3it also has big dialogue
TAS i'm interested:
megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched
fighting games with speed goals in general
the problem i see with secret power is :
1manipulating for no effects in case you don't ohko and don't need the effects given,terrain might not give what you'd want anyway
2the fact it's not necessary to the story
3it also has big dialogue
Sure, but it allows you to skip an optional trainer with 3 Pokemon.
