Oh, I was thinking about the shaman on Ninja Training Grounds, but that's great!
Hmm, about ninja grounds:
There is check by only X, so no matter how high your jump.
But there is some bug:
If you stay there, spinning not happens.
So, you can:
1) Double jump at platform over head at start, then need to spend almost all 900
2) Double jump right at that place
3) You freezed
3) Enemy hit you -> you gain control
4) Wait until all projectiles created and deleted
Profit?!?! I don't know how it's long, but you can test.
I think it caused by removing offscreen sprites. But I'm not sure.
Main task to skip animation - avoid somehow "spin" projectiles. When they hit you, you'll start spin and lost control.
Edit: here is sample:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11594630560405037EDIT2: I was totally right!
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11595112124230204
it is offscreen removal.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Can't watch it right now, but the take-damage-to-regain-control seems to be the best option.
I used a hack to move Donald around and no matter how far he is from the shaman, he will always lose control as he touches the ground.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
I'll go home in a few minutes, but I can't wait to watch it!
by the by, your TASing skills are getting better by the minute! You're making this old man proud :)
edit:
watched already, and that was a tricky trick!
- the shaman was like, what??? Where's Donald?
clever, indeed.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Script Updates:
1) Messages timeout in different way, so they dissapear even after save/load
2) Turned on buttons highlight.
3) Added Muddrake Mayhem boss info/status, to manipulate him. To kill him fast, keep enemy count < 4 when frames timer goes to 0. Win check: (left == -1) and enemy count = 0.
4) Added the Sacrifice of Maui boss prediction curves. Green - fly trajectory without hit, if you stand still. White - fly trajectory after hit, and if you stay still. (stand still means X,Y is same).
Also:
1) Abuse collisions push! It's very useful, because its speed = 16. As you know, ninja run speed = 8.
2) I don't recomend to use sync option in my script for TASing, it's made only for watching or recording.
3) Hidden buttons works too... It's not bug...
4) Me was wrong. You can't hit if invincible time != 0, but in some frames, inv time decreased before your hit, and sometimes you can hit when my script show inv time = 1.
Dooty wrote:
by the by, your TASing skills are getting better by the minute! You're making this old man proud :)
My TASing skills depends on goal.
When I say not frame precise: means only route.
When I say nothing: attempt to get frame precise - but without too much effort.
I don't know what I say when I got frame precise :D.
Script updated again: spikes, rope, mud, bamboo, lava, warp, end of level now showed.
And, you know?)
I was already thinking about autoscroll level Realm of Dead part 2. I was already run through it already like crazy, to test, if it ends in top, but nope.
And today, I have found with script, end of level at its top!
Here:
You will found it only if you suicide bomber :D
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Nice, like always :)
I just finished putting together everything we found so far, sorry about the Mud Drake fight, but again, it's just a comparison movie so we can have something to beat;
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1842955043/Dooty-and-r57shell-MauiMallard.gmv
I did it before reading your post so it may be obsolete, but it's ~10000 frames faster than our first attempt, so I couldn't resist to post it!
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
I just finished putting together everything we found so far
Awesome!
Dooty wrote:
sorry about the Mud Drake fight, but again, it's just a comparison movie so we can have something to beat
It was plan to beat him in such way (red + white combo).
It can be faster if and only if you can reach enemy count = 0 when my script shows left = 0 and timer 0:1.
I have done Mansion without boss myself. Just to compare...
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11663665321120928
And, somewhere my segments better than yours. (in previous WIP, without all tricks)
Added totems pos into script, for tracking them offscreen.
Ok, then I'll add some levels into this run that you posted now.
Edit: reviewing your movie, some questions
1) Last bomb does not hit first boss?
2) Why you jump twice at frame 6620? How this bug works? "door" already open.
By the way... Awesome shaman in ninja grounds timing. And, now with horizontal abusing ok.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
r57shell wrote:
1) Last bomb does not hit first boss?
2) Why you jump twice at frame 6620? How this bug works? "door" already open.
1) The last bomb, um... I'll have to check it out, but I'm pretty sure it hits. edit: no, it doesn't hit :(
2) That weird jump somehow made it possible to reach the hook; Donald's hight changed after that jump.
Watched your Mojo Mansion and I loved your playaround, it's also faster in some segments, but not here;
But I found out why; the frame you touch this bug determines how fast the platforms will appear.
(some kind of manipulation, I guess)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
r57shell wrote:
Ok, I'll look how platforms appears.
Actually, you can manipulate only the last platform, not all of them.
talking about platforms, in Ninja Training Grounds, your script say; platform 1,2 or 3 what does it mean?
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Second jump in ninja grounds:
Almost all checks in game works with pixels only. Hooks hits, ground stand too. After jump in that place you always have 322 Y pixel, but subpixel "rerolled".
Before jump you have 322.891, after jump 322.00, for Y coordinate it is higher than 322.891, and you can jump higher to reach Y pixel that you need to hit hook.
So, to avoid jump, you can "reroll" y subpixel in any other place before this jump.
For example - just wait 1 frame more, before hiting hook below.
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11673381951478501
One frame much better than whole jump :D
"Latern" bug in Mansion:
Indeed, you are right! There is 8 cases, depending on framecounter.
Script updated: now it show message which case was triggered.
I don't know which case is faster. Latern moves randomly, according to algorithm. Algorithm depends on case, and platforms appears according X coordinate of "latern". So, assuming that, you can trigger case, then look frame when last platform appears, and make decisions.
Dooty wrote:
Actually, you can manipulate only the last platform, not all of them.
No, they all depends on case, but case depends only on time of picking bug. They all manipulated at once.
Dooty wrote:
talking about platforms, in Ninja Training Grounds, your script say; platform 1,2 or 3 what does it mean?
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
I salute you for figuring out that Y coordinate thing, it's a lot faster and looks more "professional" now!
The Mud Drake fight; you made it look easy :) Let's see if we can do even more of those tricks on the final run!
I swear I saw Donald in a forever-falling-animation just like the one you showed in your last file, but since I only TAS at night, I must have been asleep while TASing :)
But it's funny, so of course it will be on the final run. (I'll try to remember where I saw it though...)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Do you watch without sound?
Because, it must be tap dance! Not just "infinite flying". And, we need some beat. Or... irish dance. Tap vs Irish dance youtube
You can see it in my mansion run, but it was rerecorded to much less fun than was before, when I LOL...
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Tap dance is not very popular here in Brazil, you know? But watching the video makes the trick have a whole lot of sense to me :)
So, we should sync it in some way with the game, with the music or even perform some well-known "tap dancing", something easier to recognize, even if the viewer does not know anything about tap dance.
Maybe mix it with the other sound effects Donald can make? Shooting or crouching perhaps?
But it’s almost New Year’s Day, so let’s take another break, happy holidays to you and see you in 2014!
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Pretty good.
I'll put together everything we did so far with TAS Movie Editor. I'll try to fix the mistakes while I'm at it, like the missed shot on boss one.
Notice; it's still NOT the final version, and some of you may think it's a waste of time to keep working on this file.
But it's not! Everytime we play a new stage, there's a fairly high possibility to find new tricks.
This way, we can test and include every possible trick on the entire run, without lame excuses like; we just found this trick near the end... ;)
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
I know it. I have plan to make sketch, then wait yours sketch, and then... do final run.
I would like to be Quality Control :D of final run :) I want to check all levels to make sure that there is no possible improvements.
I don't want to see any "Obsoleted" in near future :).
Edit: Added one level
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11765151404487087
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Nice. I'm splicing the movie and I'll include that stage too, thank you.
I was really close to finish, but I finally figured out how to take advantage of those moving platforms of Ninja Training Grounds and I'm doing it all again. :(
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
At last, I have done my sketch
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11794815928063263
Last level added, and last boss beaten.
I'm not sure about routes, but it shows main ideas/tricks.
Don't rush, it is just for you to have all info/routes.
Found one trick in last level part 1: your speed x saved when you leave water zone.
I need to make more invistigations:
1) Second boss (time when next ninja summons).
2) Last boss (conditions: flame/kick).
3) Look into Frog boss platforms creation
4) Player movement system, to make sure that there is nothing like "hold ^v to make something faster" :)))
But, now I'm in break. Now it's your turn :) Don't rush.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Okay, thank you. It's been a wonderful ride so far, let's keep it up!
The mistakes of the old movie are all fixed and the movie is slightly faster, but now comes the hard part; play the new stages you've added!
Don't worry, I won't rush, but it won't take forever, I promise. :)
In my opinion, improvements are a lot easier than making runs from scratch;
when you work on someone else's runs, no matter how optimized the run is,
you can always think of something new.
I hope we can find lots of new stuff for the final version of our run. See you soon then.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Script Updated. Ninja Grounds Boss info added.
First 4 battles are perfect in your previous run.
All battles are +- 4 seconds precision.
1,2,3,4 battles: 4 seconds
5,6 battles: 8 seconds (but I don't think that 4 seconds is possible)
7 battle: 12 seconds
Total: 44 seconds
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sorry, it's taking a little bit longer than I wanted to, but I lost some time testing some different strategies on the Skull boss.
Using a combo, the same used on boss one, seems to be the best way to keep damaging the boss constantly.
I'm working at Test of Duckhood at the moment, so it will take a while untill I can finish the comparison run.
I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.
Using a combo, the same used on boss one, seems to be the best way to keep damaging the boss constantly.
There is goal: beat level as fast as you can. So, you can pick more weapons to finish him faster, or few weapon to rich him fast. But, I don't think that you can beat second and third state faster than ultimate weapon (lets call it so? :) ).
About first state: I didn't try to shoot him. May be it's faster... But I think, it's possible to keep him close whole time, to beat him with ninja. I didn't spend lot of time to test it.
Dooty wrote:
I'm working at Test of Duckhood at the moment, so it will take a while untill I can finish the comparison run.
Any WIP would be interesting :)
ATM we have:
1) spider
3) skull
5) frog
7) shaman
bosses improvable.
Other bosses - we already reached maximum speed in my opinion.
2) ninjas: +- 4 seconds, so I don't think is possible.
4) muddrakes: it can be faster not pick up red bug and shoot them with simple weapon. Also, it can be more entertainment.
6) flying duckman: It's fastest way to kill him with this bug.
If you stay there, spinning not happens.
So, you can:
1) Double jump at platform over head at start, then need to spend almost all 900
2) Double jump right at that place
3) You freezed
3) Enemy hit you -> you gain control
4) Wait until all projectiles created and deleted
Profit?!?! I don't know how it's long, but you can test.
I think it caused by removing offscreen sprites. But I'm not sure.
Main task to skip animation - avoid somehow "spin" projectiles. When they hit you, you'll start spin and lost control.
Edit: here is sample:
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11594630560405037
EDIT2: I was totally right!
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/11595112124230204
it is offscreen removal.
You will found it only if you suicide bomber :D
But I found out why; the frame you touch this bug determines how fast the platforms will appear.
(some kind of manipulation, I guess)
