Posted: 12/8/2004 1:14 AM
Post subject: What's Japanese about Japanese Animation?
Quote
Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
So I'm writing this paper.. and I want people's definitions of "Japanese animation", specifically how to differentiate it from other "kinds" of animation, if even such a distinction exists or is possible to make. Some things to think about: Batman: the Animated Series - the pilot was animated in Japan, but the rest of the show in the US Batman Beyond - animated by Sunrise (the same Japanese studio responsible for Gundam and Cowboy Bebop), but written in America Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust - animated by Madhouse (Japanese studio that did Pitaten, X, Hajime no Ippo, etc), but released first in America The Big O II - produced by the same team that did the first Big O, but made for an American audience and funded by Americans Duel Masters - concepted, written, and funded by Americans, but produced and released in Japan Robotech - written by Americans, but all animation is taken from unrelated Japanese works Transformers - originally written and animated in America (and occasionally Canada), but the current US-marketted version was written and animated in Japan Studio Ghibli films - written and produced in Japan, but for a global audience and in a non-Japanese style; funded by Disney Teen Titans, Garage Kids, Totally Spies, etc - shows with little to no Japanese staff but which try to imitate Japanese "style" Which of the above is Japanese, and why? Or, is there no such thing as "Japanese animation" as a separate category? EDIT: Also, manga. "Rising Stars of Manga" and other Amerimanga VS Korean manwha VS Japanese manga.. is there a difference, and if so, what?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 12/8/2004 2:46 AM
Quote
nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
hmm you probably know that japanese would call any comic book "manga" no matter if it's japanese or not. even xmen they call manga. the japanese style of story telling is more explicit, it shows the moment of the punch hitting the oponents face, while the western style shows the moment after the punch. japanese style thinks a lot about the camera, likes to use perspective, it also has a rithym that just look like a movie, at least that's how i feel about it. the stories really get 'into' the character personality, most of the time the heroes have big problems going on, weaknesses, etc.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 12/8/2004 2:53 AM
Quote
Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Yeah, the Japanese terms "manga" and "anime" are inclusive. Even Tom & Jerry is anime in Japan. But is there a difference? Is it valid to make a distinction? For you, it's about pacing and style. So what about Samurai Jack - is that Japanese?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 12/8/2004 3:25 AM
Quote
feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I guess I would lean towards a literal definition: "Japanese Animation" is animation created by Japanese people. "Creation" is a multi-part process, so I guess I'm going along the lines of "the more Japanese, the better." After all, we've all heard the line from the Simpsons: "I'm here in Korea where American cartoons are made..." I'm pretty sure Koreans end up doing most of the animation for a variety of foreign countries. However, I wouldn't consider them "creators." So "Transformers" is not "Japanese Animation" as it was written (and I think produced) by Americans, not to mention originally performed in English. Same goes for "Samurai Jack" and most everything else Cartoon Network pumps out these days. In our increasingly global society, this issue of "creative nationality" is becoming a hot topic. You might have heard of the recent French film (the name escapes me) which was deemed "not French" because of foreign investors.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 12/8/2004 3:35 AM
Quote
Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
So you would draw the line where? Or is it a sliding scale? For example.. all of the staff (writing, storyboarding, animation, etc) on Big O II is Japanese, but it was funded by Americans and produced for an American audience. Now, the same for Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, except the production staff and voice acting is now American, but the writing, direction, animation, is Japanese, and is based on a Japanese novel. (No Japanese dub exists) Robotech is an American rewrite of a Japanese series. Dual Masters is an entirely Japanese implementation of an American concept, using American funding. So.. "the more Japanese, the better"? Which of these is Japanese? Or is the distinction meaningless?
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 12/8/2004 4:35 AM
Quote
feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I guess it's not a line so much as it is a checklist. Big O II and Bloodlust sound like Japanese creations, even if their intended market is American. Robotech is a "rewrite," you say? Like MXC is a "rewrite" of Takeshi's Castle? If so, then Robotech is an American creation based on a Japanese animation. Dual Masters sounds like a Japanese animation based on an American work, unless I misunderstood your description. Is your paper about Japanese Animation specifically? You could include a paragraph summing up the difficulty of classifying media by nations.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 12/8/2004 4:45 AM
Quote
Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Actually, the paper is about western (in particular, American and French) imitation of Japanese "style", but it will end up mostly as defining what is and is not "Japanese animation" and I'm pretty sure the conclusion will be that the distinction has lost its usefulness, especially with the advent of such hard-to-classify works as exist above, along with Korean works and Japanese works that aren't stylistically the same as most other anime (like Mamoru Oshii's stuff). I just want a lot of people's opinions on how to define "Japanese animation" and why it is a distinct category so I can mention all of those criterion and their usefulness. Robotech takes the animation from three unrelated Japanese anime and splices them together with a completely original plot. I don't know how else to describe it or even anything else that's even remotely similar. Maybe like if a Kingdom Hearts movie came out, but all of the animation was from the original Disney movies and TV shows, just recut in such a way that the new story made sense with it all.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 12/8/2004 3:37 PM
Quote
feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
So the popularity of "Japanese animation" has destroyed its distinctiveness, at least categorically speaking? How ironic.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 12/8/2004 6:12 PM
Quote
Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
You see, this is what happens when you try to put a lable on everything. ^^
Posted: 12/8/2004 6:51 PM
Quote
Booda
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
When Japanese animation was first introduced to me (technically reintroduced, since I didn't know Voltron was anime when I was 4), it was usually in reference to the culture and style of the television show or the movie. Although the term "animation" is in there, it's not literally the animation that defines Japanese animation. It's the style of how the characters are drawn, the choreography, plot, personality, and the overall perspective of the media. Japanese animation is one of those terms like "graphic novels" that people use because they think "Japanese cartoons" sounds too cheap or childish. Americans think of cartoons as Merrie Melodies and Tom & Jerry. Meanwhile, Batman and Justice League are "animated series." As far as the media they use, they're both the same. Think of it in more specific terms. Akira Toriyama designed the characters for Dragonball Z, but did he personally draw every frame of animation in the series? Of course not, a team of animators did. Yet, they still kept Toriyama's distinct style. Likewise, it doesn't matter who's actually doing the dirty work, either Japanese or American. It matters what the style is.
Posted: 12/8/2004 10:01 PM
Quote
feitclub
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I believe "cartoon," by definition, is a satirical or humorous drawing, so "Animation" applies to anything animated without categorizing its content.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 12/9/2004 2:45 AM
Quote
Booda
Joined: 4/26/2004
Posts: 149
Again, compare graphic novel and comic book. There is, in a strict definition, something called graphic novels. Yet, just about anyone will call them comics. The word "comic" itself is residual from the word comedy, so it's very close to the cartoon-animation comparison. Personally, I go with what's catchy. People remember it better.