I think this would be a great game for a speedrun.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
um, it's a side scroller, it didn't come out very early, there were other x-men side scrollers for 16-bit systems before it.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
I was serious, not only is this is a great game in itself, but also it would be great for speedrunning on so many different levels.
-Some charcters have moves that allow them to move faster than walking, like slides.
-You have to use all 5 different charcters on their own unique levels for the first phase of the game.
-In the following levels you get to chose which charcter you will use, their are very different stratigies to imploy with each charcter (they have different move speeds, different modle sizes, different moves and abilities, different jumping heights) so finding the fastest charcter for the level would be quite intresting.
-You often have to clear enemies before you can move on, finding the fastest way to do this would be quite intresting. Certain moves will make them fall down so they can't hit you for awhile but you also can't hit them, if you finish a combo they will fall down as well. You would need to imploy a large variety of moves and combos to clear each section of guys in the fastest manner.
-Boss fights would be espically intresting for the reasons above, and some bosses only allow you to hit them for a certain amount of time during the the interval when they are valnurable.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
WiP_beta
goes all the way to magneto where im having a horrible time. a lot can be improved, i agree, especially in choosing JUST gambit to complete the restof the game.
if i missed something, let me know. wolvie does have a move that lets him go forward, but theres more lag in it. cyke's was horrible... he went like an inch (scaled to his size) and then stayed there a second and then i could move again.
a LOT of rerecords came from trying to use the special moves... psylocke in particular did either the knife, a rising knee or sliding kick... and that got EXTREMELY frustrating.
also, the bosses can be done faster. i figured the special attacks could do more damage, but the combos ended up being much more damaging (look at psylocke's boss fight). im putting it off for a little bit to work on C64, but i figured id put it up to get input.
I liked the idea of the run and look forward to seeing your improvements. I especially liked how you manipulated the various collision detection errors.
a LOT of rerecords came from trying to use the special moves... psylocke in particular did either the knife, a rising knee or sliding kick... and that got EXTREMELY frustrating.
No kidding! I never figured out exactly how long the delay is supposed to be between keypresses in order to actually execute the move you're trying to do... but I don't think it's even constant.
I finished a run of this a few days ago, but it's not very fast since it was just for my own amusement. If someone does submit a run, I hope they'll use my screenshot...
I'll let you figure out why he's recoiling in disgust like that.
Edit:
Firstly, here's my run. The damn thing desyncs in beast's stage, so load the save file when you see the robot, and everything should be fine.
I did a little comparison, guesstimating the frame numbers, and found a few places where you could improve significantly. The start-end frames are roughly where the player gets control, and the frame where "mission complete" graphic stops moving.
/*-'s run:
Cyclops: 1630-7340 (5710)
Psylocke: 8960-15983 (7093)
Gambit: 17183-25380 (8197)
Wolverine: 28360-31480 (3120)
Beast: 32635-38855 (6220)
Mission 1: 39925-44120 (4195)
Mission 2: 45850-47765 (1925)
Mission 3: 48841-54770 (5929)
Mission 4: 56000-57910 (1910)
Mission 5: 59310-60670 (1360)
Mission 6: 61840-69120 (7280)
Mission 7: 69980-72748
Dromiceius' run:
Psylocke: 2350-10250 (7900)
Cyclops: 11320-18110 (6790)
Beast: 19120-25670 (6550)
Wolverine: 26560-33270 (6710)
Gambit: 34480-44386 (9906)
Mission 1: 45775-52240 (6465)
Mission 2: 53440-55790 (2350)
Mission 3: 56825-62360 (5535)
Mission 4: 63690-65635 (1945) I might have beaten you if I hadn't let Omega kick my ass! :D
Mission 5: 67030-69790 (2760)
Mission 6: 71150-78168 (7018)
Mission 7: 78985-86618 (7633)
About Psylocke's mission...
I *think* my version of psylocke's level is faster in that first section of fighting. It's probably better not to knock anybody down... until they're ready to stay down, that is. :)
There's a ~400 frame difference in mission 3. Psylocke is the clear choice for this level since she can get past those barrier thingies... particularly if you don't stop to grab that stupid X-token. Since this is the case here, you might consider replacing Gambit altogether.
The rocket part of Psylocke's "exodus" level seems to be faster than Gambit's hologram fight. I suppose it bears testing the other 3 characters for other advantages of this sort.
Gambit is probably as good as anyone against Magneto, particularly if you can figure out the best combo to use. I haven't figured out how to manipulate him into NOT flying around like the invincible bastard that he is, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to stop him from doing that.
Seems to have something to do with where you're standing... or maybe which buttons are held down? Not sure.
The exact amount of time that the bosses stay vulnerable seems to change depending on how fast they are struck, when struck repeatedly. I noticed this when fighting omega red: if I pressed the button on every other frame, I could only get two hits in, but if I added slight delays, I could occasionally get three.
I double-checked some of these numbers to make sure I did, in fact, go faster. But, my math skills are as awful and twisted as my sense of humor, so I still could have messed something up. I should also point out that I used the J version, which doesn't sync with the U version, but appears to make very little difference.
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
*Phoenix Down*
Ok, after my atempt to Ristar is fail (somebody make it before me and i'm much newbie to perfect that now) I wanna try another game that's don't have record here either. I choose X-men because i love this game and this TAS will be very good to see (I'll do my best :P)
I start it today morning and finish Beast stage. I could do a WIP more advanced, but i'm not so sure that i make this perfect, and want to hear opinions.
WIP 0.1
(Sorry by the bad english)
[EDIT] I waste all my Holyday and finish the five starting levels of all the X-men. New link in sequence:
WIP 0.5
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Let's Copy Dromiceius and put the times of the stages. In the end i finish the five levels in frame 38315, a improvement of 540 frames by the run of */-
Beast Stage: 1769 - 7303 (5534) Thanks to the double-hit headbutt.
Gambit Stage: 8432 - 16293 (7861) Avoid two jumps ins the moving plataforms.
Psylocke Stage: 18128 - 24901 (6773) And note that in a moment I stop without explanation. I need to edit this, but don't wanna to make the run again.
Wolverine Stage: 26044 - 31362 (5318) I'm a dumb with wolvie. >.<
Cyclops Stage: 32750 - 38315 (5565) Just luck
I just need to edit the Psylocke run (if have a way) and really improve the wolvie run.
[EDIT AGAIN] New version, with Psylocke and Cyclops redone. Gained 300+ frames for sure. I can't stay close to /*- and do Wolverine stage with more than 4500 frames. But am good improvement from my last run.
WIP 0.6
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Ok, I'm gonig crazy about of /*-'s time and try my better to be next him. But watching both runs the same time, i see that i be much more faster than /*-. He don't next to 3100 frames like Dromiceius says.
Check the screenshots. When i'm fighting with the Sentinel, /*- is comming to fight the boss and the energy bar don't even appear. Maybe the two windows have a delay of some frames, but the difference is over 500 frames for sure.
Then yesterday i saty on my computer either 4:00 AM and finish Juggernaut fight. I just need now to play Magneto's Stage with all the five persons and find who is faster. I think that's will be Wolvie or Psylocke. Both have fast stages and can do invencibles uppercuts to hit Magneto in the air. Gambit is fast, but the hologram fight may be slow.
WIP 0.9. Maybe Saturday or Sunday i submit it. :)
The movie extend to a little play in real time in wolvie final stage, but consider that the movie finish with the Juggernaut fight, ok?
Ah I am glad to see someone is doing this game, I want to help critique, which wips should I watch?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Ah I am glad to see someone is doing this game, I want to help critique, which wips should I watch?
A little time ago, is the 0.9 version. It goes to the end of Juggernaut Fight. (The rest is just real time play, to train some things). But now i in the final stage, and having a lot of trouble with Magneto. Because the Exodus Stage is Different for each person, i did this stage with ALL x-men and fight with magneto with ALL of then too. (err... for the moment, i just don't fight yet '^^)
It is a .rar file that has five .smv files. Each one is identical either the Juggernaut level, and the name in the end is the person who play the Exodus level.
WIP version 0.99999
I'm ended the Exodus level with all x-men yesterday, and probably finish the movie today after sleep. The 2-hit Headbutt of Beast is much more usefull than i think initially. He was the second faster against Tusk (Gambit and his long-range attacks win by less than 200 frames), and his Exodus level was the faster of all. But for sure he will be in a pain to fight Magneto. He don't have invincible moves like Wolvie or Psylocke, and the backstep of headbutt will be hard to avoid damage. Cyclops and Gambit may be medium, but not faster than Wolvie/Psylocke/Beast. But in the start i say "Beast is the worst person of this game", but i change my idea for a TAS ^^
hmm, that wip 0.9 desyncs for me during pyslocks boss fight, what version are you using?
I think beast may be the fastest for the last level. The magneto fight takes up most of that time. With beast it's possible to hit magneto with jumping punch, normal punch, then both hits of his special move. I've always reguarded beast as the fastest damage dealer, mostly because of his two hit headbutt is the best finishing move, his normal punches also do good damage.
Things you might be able to improve on:
BEAST:
For the beast miniboss, it's faster to do down+y move near the middle of him. Then do mid air punch above him just barely hitting him, then down+y, mid air punch, and so on. Also you might to stick to the lower pipe right after doing down+y and you can immediately do the hanging punch, so you could alternate between down+y and hanging punch. Then you may want finish him off with mid air punch, normal punch, special attack.
Basically when doing the down+y for damage, you don’t want to go too high in the air, it wastes time, it’s better to start at the bottom then do them series of three.
When jumping over the brass knuckle guy, try to do it with the up+y move instead of having to wait for that explosive thing on the platform.
For the sentinel bosses, try doing this combo: jumping punch x3, normal punch x 2, special attack. You’d probably need to be behind them and have them not attack. If that doesn’t kill them, you could try throwing in either normal punch in the beginning, or down+y.
GAMBIT:
Near the begining, you can jump and get hit in the air from a gernade and be boost up to the platform your going to, or you can kill the first brown guy, then there will be a brown guy up there who can boost you up, sometimes there's a green guy on the boxes instead, I think he needs to do the jump attack to boost you up.
That barrel in the elevator chamber will kill everything after it explodes, save it for the last set of elevator guys.
When fighting the brass knuckle guy I think it's faster to not knock him down. Do your set of staff attacks, then either pause long enough, or do a duck attack or card toss to the opposite side, or do two jump attacks on him, then do another series of staff attacks. I think doing the jump attacks is faster.
Was doing up+y three times on the final boss faster than doing staff attack combos?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Spider-Waffle wrote:
hmm, that wip 0.9 desyncs for me during pyslocks boss fight, what version are you using?
Using (U)(!) version.
Thanks for the feedback. I did the Beast and Gambit stage BEFORE see the WIP of /*-. Really both stages can be done faster, but that's my first TAS, and i am faster than the previous WIP.
I was trying do what you say in Beast subboss. Don't work so well because his eletric shots hit me after i did 3 hits. The sentinels can die with just one combo like you said, but two headbutts are faster. I just want to kill the first and third sentinel like i kill the second: Without need to do a jump.
About Gambit, if I throw a card or do a low attack to the oposite side, the big guy smash me. Maybe it can be done if i stay in a safe distance (like i did with psylocke in Apocalypse stage) and surelly is a great improvement if i could do that. The exploding barrel in the elevator i just don't know about it. To me, it's only a object with a energy recharge. I find this when i'm looking for /*-'s run. But at this time i'm already concluded all five starting levels, and already redid Psylocke stage 3 times.
Was doing up+y three times on the final boss faster than doing staff attack combos?
If you using the full combo, the pilot will die for the first hit of the up+y, and it hit one of the green guys behind Gambit BEFORE kill the boss. It take off some frames (5~20, i believe). Doing up+y three times, i don't hit him, what i belive that is faster. The last low hit is just for waste time. After kill the final boss, the number of frames to finish the level is the same, instead of wath you do. I use it to play around with cyclops too.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Do you know if a can simple redo the Gambit and Beast stage and do a hexedit to paste the other stages in sequence? I believe the stages are not defined by the first levels, but only by thenselves, but i'm not sure. And the last time i'll try do do that, i lost four levels for free.
I you might be able to just paste levels together like that, the randomness might be affected though by what you did on previous levels like it is for megaman.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Just following want FODA says, i'm redoing the TAS and optimizing it. I'm have a better knowledge about TASing now, and i expected that time i'll make a good movie.
No WIP this time, but i already gained 1200 frames in two stages (that's enough to prove me that the previous movie is very bad in TASing) and studying much more possibilities.
After finish the five starting levels, i'll post a WIP here.
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Ok, after a little time, i have a new WIP. SW give me a hand with a lot of tips, and i gained 3028 frames only in my 5 starting levels. (50,4 seconds)
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1342/X-men%20Mutant%20Apocalypse%20(Vers%E3o%202).smv
I try a lot of ways to finish each stage, and was a great surprise discover that jumpig is faster than walk in this game, but only Wolverine and Cyclops can use this. Gambit, Beast and Psylocke have slides, much more faster than other moves.
Joined: 4/13/2006
Posts: 150
Location: Caratinga - MG - Brazil
Flood o/
New WIP. I'm impressed, but in Apocalypse stage i saved 1800 frames!!!! Yes, i can do the stage 30 secs faster than my last run. Beast really make this thing much easier.
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1356/x.smv
At this moment, i improve my full run to 4693 frames (1 min, 34 secs). I hope this time i'll be published.
Just 3 and a half stages to finish the game. Wish me luck o/
I'll let you figure out why he's recoiling in disgust like that.
Edit:
Firstly, here's my run. The damn thing desyncs in beast's stage, so load the save file when you see the robot, and everything should be fine.
I did a little comparison, guesstimating the frame numbers, and found a few places where you could improve significantly. The start-end frames are roughly where the player gets control, and the frame where "mission complete" graphic stops moving.
/*-'s run:
Cyclops: 1630-7340 (5710)
Psylocke: 8960-15983 (7093)
Gambit: 17183-25380 (8197)
Wolverine: 28360-31480 (3120)
Beast: 32635-38855 (6220)
Mission 1: 39925-44120 (4195)
Mission 2: 45850-47765 (1925)
Mission 3: 48841-54770 (5929)
Mission 4: 56000-57910 (1910)
Mission 5: 59310-60670 (1360)
Mission 6: 61840-69120 (7280)
Mission 7: 69980-72748
Dromiceius' run:
Psylocke: 2350-10250 (7900)
Cyclops: 11320-18110 (6790)
Beast: 19120-25670 (6550)
Wolverine: 26560-33270 (6710)
Gambit: 34480-44386 (9906)
Mission 1: 45775-52240 (6465)
Mission 2: 53440-55790 (2350)
Mission 3: 56825-62360 (5535)
Mission 4: 63690-65635 (1945) I might have beaten you if I hadn't let Omega kick my ass! :D
Mission 5: 67030-69790 (2760)
Mission 6: 71150-78168 (7018)
Mission 7: 78985-86618 (7633)
About Psylocke's mission...
I *think* my version of psylocke's level is faster in that first section of fighting. It's probably better not to knock anybody down... until they're ready to stay down, that is. :)
There's a ~400 frame difference in mission 3. Psylocke is the clear choice for this level since she can get past those barrier thingies... particularly if you don't stop to grab that stupid X-token. Since this is the case here, you might consider replacing Gambit altogether.
The rocket part of Psylocke's "exodus" level seems to be faster than Gambit's hologram fight. I suppose it bears testing the other 3 characters for other advantages of this sort.
Gambit is probably as good as anyone against Magneto, particularly if you can figure out the best combo to use. I haven't figured out how to manipulate him into NOT flying around like the invincible bastard that he is, but I'm pretty sure it's possible to stop him from doing that.
Seems to have something to do with where you're standing... or maybe which buttons are held down? Not sure.
The exact amount of time that the bosses stay vulnerable seems to change depending on how fast they are struck, when struck repeatedly. I noticed this when fighting omega red: if I pressed the button on every other frame, I could only get two hits in, but if I added slight delays, I could occasionally get three.
I double-checked some of these numbers to make sure I did, in fact, go faster. But, my math skills are as awful and twisted as my sense of humor, so I still could have messed something up. I should also point out that I used the J version, which doesn't sync with the U version, but appears to make very little difference.
