Post subject: The Nightmare Before Christmas - The Pumpkin King
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Joined: 8/14/2014
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Location: North Kilttown
Note: The full name of the game wouldn't fit in the subject box. I'm pretty sure we already know who Tim Burton is anyway. So I was searching around and couldn't find a topic for this game, so I decided to make one. I've only been playing around with the game for an hour and I think a pretty interesting TAS(es) can come of it. Hopefully others will want to pitch in. Some Notes (basically everything I know so far): * Jumping and turning is much, much faster than turning around since it skips Jack's long turning animation. * Jack starts off running slowly before getting to his max speed * When ascending platforms where you need to run a certain distance before being able to make the next jump, turning around in mid-air just before landing does two things: for one you can jump up to the platform so that you land where you need to start running from in order to make the next jump; two, because Jack has already turned around in mid-air, once he lands he'll skip some of his slow jog before running at full speed. * Later in the first stage, you gain a weapon. While standing on the ground, you can only fire (at most) 2 shots in the span of 4 frames. After that you have to wait another 11 frames before you can fire a third shot. In case you're using turbo, depending on which frame you start firing you may only fire once every 11 frames without firing two at first. In the air, however, you can spam fire to your heart's desire. It doesn't do too much good to this in the video other than being slightly more chaotic since the boss has a long I-frame cool down time. But this is useful for swarms of enemies, or big enemies with shorter cool down times. Link to video
Somewhat damaged.
Editor, Experienced player (942)
Joined: 7/20/2011
Posts: 345
Nice, this was in my wishlist for GBA games. I made it up to using the ghost platforms playing through it a while back but couldn't figure out what to do. It seems interesting enough, you have a variety of abilities, cool bosses and good level design. As far as TAS techniques I never really attempted it yet, but you might want to see if switching between the attacks causes you to be able to shoot faster or something. Probably not but worth a try. Anyway, looking forward to seeing this game!
Current thoughts: Hachiemon (J) for GBA.
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Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
So I started taking some baby steps with this, seeing as this WIP is much shorter that what I usually upload. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20476944263506497 But before I went too far in I wanted to share what I had found so far: Title Screen/Opening Cutscenes Before you ask, no I can't reset to skip the language selection screen. I tried that with both a hard and a soft reset and I still needed to select it anyway. Besides, the game wouldn't let me soft reset until after the "licensed by Nintendo" screen goes away, and after resetting and watching that unskippable screen again, it would take more time than the language screen anyway. Thankfully the option to "press start" can be done by hitting the A button while I can "Start game" with the Start button on the next frame. Lastly, before the start of the first level, there's a cutscene you don't see since you can cancel it way before it visually shows up. (Edit) Instead of double-posting, I'll place my update here. Link to video I've been working on the first level and found a number of optimizations to improve on some of my rough drafts. These techs in particular are used a fair bit in this WIP: * There's a specific part (the bottom corners) of any given ledge that you can clip into to cause Jack to grab on and climb much quicker than normal. * Using turbo to rapidly jump while running up slopes (let's say... Turbo Hopping) Jack gets pushed up the slope a tad faster and allows you to gain a few pixels by the end of the slope. * Jumping for 2 frames after a standstill also pushes Jack forward a few pixels and gets him to running speed a little quicker. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/20567826649566765 I haven't done the boss fight yet since I'll have to search around to find Mr. Bospider's HP address to make this optimal. Plus I want to try out a few different boss strats to figure out how I want to approach the fight.
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Active player (264)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
So for the past few months I've been doing a lot with this game and found a number of good finds. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/23426970216360348 One good thing that I did was I restarted the TAS using the Japanese version. The advantages (as far as I know) are obviously shorter text for those rare unskippable text boxes, but more importantly, there's no "Licensed by Nintendo" logo when loading the rom and no language selection. Overall this only saves 109 frames, but it's frames saved and more frames used actually playing the game. Second, I've been digging into the memory and finding Jack's speed address helped me plan out some of the movement more efficiently. Jumping to get Jack running faster could be more precisely monitored as well: Speed Address - $55D0 – 2byte - IWRAM>sgd. Jump duration------Max speed achieved in: 0 frames------------19 frames 1 frames------------18 frames 2 frames------------21 frames 3 frames------------16 frames 4 frames------------19 frames |Running speed caps at|163840| |Jumping speed caps at|131072| Maintaining max speed while damage boosting was also helped by memory examination. * For some reason, if Jack happens to jump on the same frame as he lands from another jump his speed resets to 0. This doesn’t actually affect his speed, but it makes it hard to monitor. Sometimes this effect can last for one frame or for the entire time the player holds the ‘A’ button. Jumping to turn around is faster than simply holding the other direction. Mega Spider Mega Spider’s health address is $569C. The nice thing about this address is that it also acts as the invulnerability timer, making optimization (and RAM searching) easier. Mega Spider’s damage isn’t counted until the I-frame timer runs out- 32 frames after the hit connects. This boss starts out with 25 HP and loses 2 HP per hit. This means that before the final hit the boss is left with 1 HP, this implies that the boss must be below zero (rather than simply zero) to die. This could lead to some nice glitches if that number could be under flowed somehow. But that’s theoretical. What’s not is that in game timers are paused when in the menu or the map screen. So no Yellow Devil trick as far as I know – the menu/map fades in and out slowly anyway so it would be much slower if it was possible. Oddly, my last Eng wip wasn't too bad. I was only able to chop off 3 frames. In fact, altogether this wip saved 144 frames off of my last Eng wip. (But as you can imagine, the work flow was more calculated and less trial and error this time around) I was also able to kill enemies along the way without losing a single frame this time.
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Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928
TehBarrel's newest WIP. Saw he posted it on userfiles. Link to video
Active player (264)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
Thanks Solarplex, haven't gotten around to making any encodes myself (my computer is a bit slow in that regard). I've kinda been meaning to ask an encoder what they thought about this idea, but whenever this gets finished and submitted, what would you think about me making an alternate encode that cuts out all of the post boss dances? There's no way to skip them and they take up 20 seconds a piece (roughly 3 minutes throughout the entire game). I don't know, do you think it's worth the effort? I might just go ahead and do it, but I just want to know if watching them is really as tedious I think it is.
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Active player (274)
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I say its fine to leave them in. When it gets to the submission, I can make you a temp alternative encode that has the dance cut out just for fun.
Active player (264)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
I'm a fair way into the game at this point, but I still have a ways to go. So I figured I'd post an update. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/25887288603037695 I also decided to make an encode real quick too. Link to video I'm still tweaking some things as I think I may be able to kill the last robot in lower Halloween town quicker, but I'm still working some things out in that regard. I'm also running into another problem I wasn't aware of before. Since I've been working on this TAS since very early into this year the version of BizHawk I'm using (1.9.4) has been made obsolete a couple times since. I wasn't too worried before but now every time I try to run the TAS through one of the newer versions of BizHawk it immediately crashes. I don't want post this in the BizHawk bug reporting thread just yet if this turns out to either be a bug/issue that is known that I'm not aware of or if this is a game-specific issue. I'd really like to continue this TAS as it is and avoid starting over and delay its completion yet again if I can.
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Editor, Skilled player (1824)
Joined: 8/25/2013
Posts: 1200
just keep using the version you have, it's fine.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
Active player (258)
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Location: Belgium
Wow! That's really nice! Keep up this way ;)
New PCSX2-rr
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Joined: 8/14/2014
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Location: North Kilttown
I wanted to make an update to make specific mention of this room. In the next area of the game (the second section of the Pumpkin Patch) there are these invincible bugs that act as a screen timer. After a certain amount of time has passed the bug will stop Jack and grab him and make you restart the screen all over again. The only way to avoid this is to either stand underneath specific mushrooms that cast a shadow, keeping you safe from the bug. Or get out of the room within the time limit. This room in particular was hard to TAS. Link to video There is only six frames of leeway and it required pushing Jack's pixel position to a specific value so that he would grab the ledge a frame early. The only time I could feasibly adjust it was in the room before. Given the odd slope degrees the interval for turbo-hopping up the hills was odd (usually a jump every 4 frames or so). So by starting the uphill jump cycle at a specific time on each of the hills I was able to put Jack at an odd pixel position which would then allow him to grab the first ledge a frame sooner. Thankfully, this doesn't affect the next ledges since the climb animation resets his position to a set spot anyway. The point is, without this manipulation there's only about 5 frames of error (less than Bob Skip).
Somewhat damaged.
Active player (264)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
Figured I'd post an update since it's been a while. I'm still working on this TAS but with the holiday season and my work schedule being - for lack of a better, more funny word - ridiculous I haven't had time to work on it as much as I want to. Plus after updating to Windows 10 BizHawk crashes whenever I attempt to "record OSD" for temp encodes, making muddy, low-quality temps the only thing I can do. To add onto that, I notice BH 1.9.4 (which I unfortunately am using) runs much more slow with Win 10 making each frame advance take roughly a second to register and re-records are even slower. (This adds up) All of these excuses aside, I'm just entering the final area of the game, Oogie's Lair and I expect to post an update file sometime during this weekend. This area, though, is going to take a while to complete seeing as not only is it a huge area requiring the utilization of many different forms of movement tech to traverse a single room, but also health/ammo management is very, VERY much a thing seeing as the area houses multiple bosses. Just fair warning for when you all don't hear from me working on this TAS for long periods of time.
Somewhat damaged.