Submission Text Full Submission Page
Super Pitfall is a platforming game well known for glitchiness and overall poor programming.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: FCEUX 2.2.2
  • Beats the game as fast as possible
  • Abuses programming errors

Comments

This game is pretty poorly programmed, as anyone who has tried to play the game casually can attest.
'Wall Clip': This glitch occurs because a particular memory address ($00D5) is reused for multiple purposes in a frame. One of those purposes is for collision detection. Normally, this byte fails a check that prevents the player from moving forward when walking against a wall. However, it turns out that $00D5 is also changed at an interrupt of some sort. If the interrupt timing is just right, the value will be modified and not changed back before the collision detection check. When this happens the character moves one step into the wall. This is quite random, and I have found no way to consistently make it happen. Only a brute force search could really find the best case as far as I could tell. But it happens often enough to make it a time saver.
This run features several new clips, allowing slow deaths to be avoided.

Other comments

This is my first attempt at using automated re-recording to make a run, and I must say I am pretty happy with the results. This run probably contains more re-records then all my other runs combined, simply because of the blind brute forcing I did to make the clips as fast as possible.
There are a couple of other possible clips as illustrated by Arc, but I have not managed to make them save time over the current ones. Of course, I only tested a small fraction of the incredible number of potential combinations, so maybe if enough cpu time is devoted to the problem more improvements are still possible.
There is also a glitch (presented at a recent AGDQ but known for several years), that warps to the ending screen much faster, however it turns out the true ending state is not obtained this way, since it doesn't start the second world, and therefore not included in this submission.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15576
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4749: Arc, Kaylee & Alyosha's NES Super Pitfall in 06:10.51
Spikestuff
They/Them
Editor, Publisher, Expert player (2642)
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6438
Location: The land down under.
Walks off cliff Thanks Alyosha for that new version. sighs -v2 deleted- Final version is in the submission provided by Alyosha.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account. Something better for yourself and also others.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
EDIT: obsolete I found a new enemy manipulation trick that saves the girl much faster, please replace the movie file with this one. (sorry spikestuff)
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
The text of the submission really needs to be changed, since this run is not under 5 minutes anymore. Could you also put a small explanation there about why the credits glitch from the last submission is not used? (There were a fair number of posts in the old thread to sift through to figure it out.)
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Joined: 3/9/2009
Posts: 530
mklip2001 wrote:
The text of the submission really needs to be changed, since this run is not under 5 minutes anymore. Could you also put a small explanation there about why the credits glitch from the last submission is not used? (There were a fair number of posts in the old thread to sift through to figure it out.)
When you actually beat the game, you can press start and it goes into a Second Quest mode that moves the items you need to find to different places. There's also music for the win screen normally. The glitch brings up the win screen, but when you press start, it sends you back to the title, not into the second quest. It also doesn't play the ending music. It's a glitch that calls up the game won screen without doing any of the other game won routines. tl;dr It's not the same state you reach by actually beating the game.
Active player (264)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
Yes vote. I wasn't aware this game could get more brokenified.
Somewhat damaged.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
Submission text fixed. Somehow I missed the first line. Also added why the game over warp is removed.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (826)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I made a picture that shows the main difference between this run and the published one. Clipping through the wall looks like it saves about 7 seconds overall. Mainly because the old route required death, and it took about 11 seconds to go through the death sequence. It's also slower to swim through the water. I never considered going through that wall, because I thought it would take too long. Clever move. And then it looks like optimizing wall clipping and girl rescuing saves the other 4 seconds.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (826)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I've tested two particularly useful spots and found them to be possible to wall clip through. The question of whether the run could be faster depends on how quickly I can get through those walls. I'll have to test completely. One of them looks more likely than the other to be a time-saver.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
Arc wrote:
I've tested two particularly useful spots and found them to be possible to wall clip through. The question of whether the run could be faster depends on how quickly I can get through those walls. I'll have to test completely. One of them looks more likely than the other to be a time-saver.
I had tested a couple of potential wall clips as suggested to me by ventuz, but never came close to saving any time with them. I will be pretty surprised if you are able to get something to work. good luck!
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (826)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I have one idea that almost certainly is faster: wall clipping out of the room after grabbing the girl. I calculated the times needed to improve the run in those two spots that I mentioned before. I'm not sure whether they're possible: Challenge 1: If you can get through this wall and get the key in less than ~17 seconds, it will save time: Challenge 2: If you can get through this wall and grab the girl in less than ~20 seconds, it will save time.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036
Nice work, liked all the wall glitching! Yes vote.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
Looking at the map: http://vgmaps.com/Atlas/NES/SuperPitfall-DarkLair.png I don't think walking through the wall after getting the girl will save time. There isn't a quick way to get back to the warp point. You have to do a zig zag type path to the left. EDIT: at the moment I am ~250 frames slower going through the wall, and I got through the wall in ~500 frames. So unless that can be cut in half, looks like it's slower. Going to the right would work but you have to do another wall clip at the wall below the warp to jump up into it (avoiding the rope swinging.) I tested this, but there isn't enough on screen to make the glitch happen frequently enough to work. Going through the 3 walls to get the girl would take far longer than 20 seconds based on the testing I've done so far. not sure about going into the water to go through the wall in challenge 1. EDIT: you can get through that wall in the water rather quickly, so there might be an improvement there after all!
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (826)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Here is the route that I had in mind: When I tested the red route, starting from the top of the roof (after completing the left wall clip), it took only ~13 seconds to get to the end point. The blue route, starting from the girl, took ~26 seconds to get there. Starting from the girl, a wall clip completed in less than 13 seconds should save time. I know what you mean by going to the right. It didn't work for me either because you can't get into the wall. I tested another spot in the dark world that also would be faster if you could wall clip through it, but there aren't enough objects to make it work.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
Ahhh I see, good thinking! Since the glitch seems to be an interrupt timing of some sort, I created a lua script that just blindly tries random inputs over a 600 frame window to try and get through that wall. Incredibly, the winner so far did it in under 5 seconds. unfortunately I have had no such luck with the water wall. It takes significantly longer to get through since you need to go through the whole wall. Might be out of luck there. For now I will implement this and see what happens.
Active player (264)
Joined: 8/14/2014
Posts: 188
Location: North Kilttown
Not to be rude, but should this conversation be moved to the game's thread? It just seems a bit odd that all of this theoretical discussion and technical route and glitch planning is going on in a submission poll thread of what is (ideally) supposed to be a finished run. Wouldn't it make more sense to cancel/delay this submission and then come back after all of the teas have been dotted and the eyes have been crossed?
Somewhat damaged.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
So it looks like I will have to delay / cancel this submission after all. The amount of improvement I am getting from random brute force search is getting pretty large. For example the first wall clip in the original run can be done in under 1 second. So, stay tuned for a sub 6 minute run! I have no heuristics to really know when to press buttons, so it's all quite random, and the challenge now will be conserving gun ammo as a variable too. Which is best, delay or cancel?
Joined: 3/9/2009
Posts: 530
¿Por qué no los dos?
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
I'd say delay if you think it will be done within a week. I'm looking forward to the route changes, though I dare say the route planning is more interesting than the game itself :/
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/24065823953371508 Alright the update is finally done. In the end it was just under 5:50, so its a 30 second improvement compared to the published run, and ~18 second improvement over my last one. I even managed to make a video! Link in the submission. PLease update the movie file with this one.
mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
Nice improvement! The zip that avoids the death over the spike pit was pretty cool, though the escape from the girl's room is also interesting. Would it save you any frames of input to jump before the ending and let momentum carry you down to the location that triggers the ending screen?
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
mklip2001 wrote:
Nice improvement! The zip that avoids the death over the spike pit was pretty cool, though the escape from the girl's room is also interesting. Would it save you any frames of input to jump before the ending and let momentum carry you down to the location that triggers the ending screen?
Nope, as soon as you start falling you fall at full speed. The reason I usually jump to get down pits is that when you jump, you can still control left and right movement. When you just walk off, you just fall straight down. EDIT: Wait, D: I see what you mean now, you are right! Good catch! (fixed)
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (826)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Using the ladder for the downward wall clip is brilliant. It inspired me to go back and look at the routes again. I might have found something. I got the Dark World right wall clip to work. Link to video Currently, Girl-to-Warp takes ~56 seconds. This route is very close to that time. It has to be optimally TASed to find out whether it's faster or slower. It's about a 50/50 chance I think. Here is the route to take: The trick is that you have to spawn a flying dark reaper that drops stuff on you. You have to go just a little bit to the left when you reach the bottom. Then have him follow you over to the right side. When you go down the long ladder in this route, it should be possible to manipulate some of those quick downward slides by randomly stopping. That might be enough to make it faster. Another issue: is every gunshot necessary? It seems like a loss of time to pick up the second gun.
Skilled player (1741)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4981
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Arc wrote:
Using the ladder for the downward wall clip is brilliant. It inspired me to go back and look at the routes again. I might have found something. I got the Dark World right wall clip to work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3x-NnF59Zg Currently, Girl-to-Warp takes ~56 seconds. This route is very close to that time. It has to be optimally TASed to find out whether it's faster or slower. It's about a 50/50 chance I think. Here is the route to take: http://i.imgur.com/O2kpqAq.png The trick is that you have to spawn a flying dark reaper that drops stuff on you. You have to go just a little bit to the left when you reach the bottom. Then have him follow you over to the right side. When you go down the long ladder in this route, it should be possible to manipulate some of those quick downward slides by randomly stopping. That might be enough to make it faster. Another issue: is every gunshot necessary? It seems like a loss of time to pick up the second gun.
Is that long detour down needed? Can this be clip be done on midair by bruteforcing A/B presses?
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3821)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2829
Location: US
shooting (and the shooting animation) make the clips go much faster, by bout a factor of 2 as far as I can tell, so the shots are definitely needed. I will test that route, interesting idea. @jlun2: good question, I have never tested it, I guess I will throw Harry against a wall for a while and see what happens. In other news, I just successfully clipped through the 3 walls to get to the girl and saved over 6 seconds! Look like there is still more to this game yet! EDIT: the new route is very close. So far I have one quick ladder slide and a pretty optimized route, but its 20728 frames new route and 20692 old route.