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Race by Gay that is fast, less time than the previous establishment.

FISHERIES

This is where most of the improvement coming. Better handling of luck for more points = a faster finish.

LEAP OF ICE

This is a pain level of TAS. Especially since there are many platforms that would save much time if they could reach. I removed tradeoffs. It saves 80 frames.

HOCKEY

Not much to say about this. It was optimized even in the last race. Saving is minor; a new trick is to be as fair as possible to trigger the signal YOU WON some faster frame.

SNOWBALL FIGHT

Another place where I saved a lot of time. Better manipulation.
Total improvement: 469 frames. 7.81 seconds.

Noxxa: Replaced submission file with a 134-frame improvement.
Noxxa: Judging.
Noxxa: Delaying, pending a potential improvement.

Noxxa
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hopper wrote:
Kurabupengin wrote:
downgrade to vault.
Gay wrote:
Disrespect. It is no insult to be beating. Be happy.
No, he's absolutely right. I had intended to write the following comment about the previous run's submission: "Why would you cost yourself frames in order to show off a glitch? This is obviously a Vault run, so anyone will be able to obsolete your run just by removing those wasted frames. The glitch isn't that impressive that it's worth losing frames over." I never did, and then my jaw dropped when I saw that it was published non-Vault. The cut scenes and walking to the mini-games take longer than the action, and the "action" is just four boring mini-games. The previous run should never have been published outside of the Vault and, barring some amazing glitch (ideally one that skips almost all of the cutscenes), there is probably nothing that you or anyone else can do to make it entertaining. I second the motion to downgrade.
The previous run was sent to Moons because viewer response was generally surprisingly positive, with user comments, votes and ratings all indicating that. The minigames aren't the greatest, but I suppose the game just has an endearing appearance, which can also be a relevant factor. That said, since the previous run was good enough for Moons, why would this run, which is just basically the same except ten seconds faster, not be? Why would this run have to be 'downgraded' compared to the previous run?
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
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Mothrayas wrote:
That said, since the previous run was good enough for Moons, why would this run, which is just basically the same except ten seconds faster, not be? Why would this run have to be 'downgraded' compared to the previous run?
That's what I'm saying: the previous run wasn't good enough for Moons!
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It's because the run is only 10 minutes long so it's just short enough for it to be enjoyable. Most vaulted games have the same boring gameplay throughout the run with barely any varying activity. Each mini-game is at least different than the last and it has cute cutscenes to watch. At no point during the run I felt it was mind numbing.
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hopper wrote:
Mothrayas wrote:
That said, since the previous run was good enough for Moons, why would this run, which is just basically the same except ten seconds faster, not be? Why would this run have to be 'downgraded' compared to the previous run?
That's what I'm saying: the previous run wasn't good enough for Moons!
Well hello there! I just came back from my 3 day break... glad that nothing has changed around here. Umm... you know I apologized, right?
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Weegeechan15 wrote:
It's because the run is only 10 minutes long so it's just short enough for it to be enjoyable. Most vaulted games have the same boring gameplay throughout the run with barely any varying activity. Each mini-game is at least different than the last and it has cute cutscenes to watch. At no point during the run I felt it was mind numbing.
Only maybe a fifth of that is the very simplistic minigames. The rest is cutscenes and walking to and from them.
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I'd disagree with calling them very simplistic if you can save over ten seconds from them.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
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I'm not going to lie, part of why I can gain some entertainment out of the cut scene bits is my nostalgia for the show. But if we're to look at this game from an objective standpoint... well, how many other games where, I think it's safe to say, 60% of it is cut scenes would make it to moons? Hell, I'd say the other penguin game had a lot better interactivity/cut scene ratio. Don't get me wrong, due to nostalgia I can find the game itself entertaining and I don't think this is a bad TAS whatsoever, but I can understand how a general viewer might raise an eyebrow. Then again, I'm not certain how this run got to moons. But that's just me.
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NitroGenesis wrote:
I'd disagree with calling them very simplistic if you can save over ten seconds from them.
The suboptimality of the first attempt means that the first attempt was suboptimal. That's all. The amount of improvement possible is not an indication of the complexity of the game. This run of far more minigames was improved by nearly half an hour and still deemed not complex enough for the vault.
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TehBerral wrote:
I'm not going to lie, part of why I can gain some entertainment out of the cut scene bits is my nostalgia for the show. But if we're to look at this game from an objective standpoint... well, how many other games where, I think it's safe to say, 60% of it is cut scenes would make it to moons? Hell, I'd say the other penguin game had a lot better interactivity/cut scene ratio. Don't get me wrong, due to nostalgia I can find the game itself entertaining and I don't think this is a bad TAS whatsoever, but I can understand how a general viewer might raise an eyebrow. Then again, I'm not certain how this run got to moons. But that's just me.
I suppose that's true. Perhaps my nostalgia for the show is also getting in the way a little bit too :P When you think about it, there are "game end glitch" runs vaulted that are only a minute long and I would say they are just as entertaining as this. I guess this is more fit for the vault and should have been put there in the first place.
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Tangent wrote:
NitroGenesis wrote:
I'd disagree with calling them very simplistic if you can save over ten seconds from them.
The suboptimality of the first attempt means that the first attempt was suboptimal. That's all. The amount of improvement possible is not an indication of the complexity of the game. This run of far more minigames was improved by nearly half an hour and still deemed not complex enough for the vault.
The improvement in that movie is trivial (resetting to skip cutscenes) and each minigame is fixed length. I wouldn't compare them to this game.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
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NitroGenesis wrote:
Tangent wrote:
NitroGenesis wrote:
I'd disagree with calling them very simplistic if you can save over ten seconds from them.
The suboptimality of the first attempt means that the first attempt was suboptimal. That's all. The amount of improvement possible is not an indication of the complexity of the game. This run of far more minigames was improved by nearly half an hour and still deemed not complex enough for the vault.
The improvement in that movie is trivial (resetting to skip cutscenes) and each minigame is fixed length. I wouldn't compare them to this game.
That is incorrect. Not all minigames are the same length. Manipulating a different set will save time. Furthermore, many are not fixed length. It also doesn't invalidate the point I was making. Being able to save time is only an indicator that time can be saved, not that the content is complex.
NitroGenesis
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Sorry, I'm not familiar with WarioWare. There is no luck manipulation in that run, probably why it was rejected. (I also don't see any that aren't fixed length but I only watched around 5 minutes.)
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
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NitroGenesis wrote:
Sorry, I'm not familiar with WarioWare. There is no luck manipulation in that run, probably why it was rejected. (I also don't see any that aren't fixed length but I only watched around 5 minutes.)
There are some easy ones to see in Kat & Ana's games (about 10 minutes in) that are finished before the timer even comes up. Compare to here, and you can see many of the same that cut off with the timer not yet expired: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=458cfe_Jq-A And there are lists of the minigames in each set here. Only a limited number are played from each set in the 'story' mode, so there's absolutely manipulation that can happen to choose the fastest of the games. Not that the minigames themselves aren't trivial in a TAS setting, but I would say no more than the ones here are, and would involve a lot more luck manipulation instead of playing 4 hardset ones.
NitroGenesis
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Ok, makes sense. I still disagree with the comparison of WarioWare and this game, and, well, there is no luck manipulation in Florian's run according to his comments.
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
dekutony
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Can I ask the author a very simple question? Why did you imroved the published run? For curiousity sake, can you please tell me what are you going to TAS next?
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om, nom, nom... blech, bitter!
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I canceled it. There are still improvements to be made, likely, and tasing this game is not rewarding. Someone else can try a shot.
Kurabupengin wrote:
Why did you imroved the published run? For curiousity sake, can you please tell me what are you going to TAS next?
1. It's a simple game, and I see potential for improvements in it, when I saw it. 2. Still testing out games. It is likely to be an improvement NES game.
Gay Dominguez Jr.
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Gay wrote:
I canceled it. There are still improvements to be made, likely, and tasing this game is not rewarding. Someone else can try a shot.
I can give it a shot when I'm done with some other things. Thanks.
Gay wrote:
1. It's a simple game, and I see potential for improvements in it, when I saw it. 2. Still testing out games. It is likely to be an improvement NES game.
1. Ok! I thought it was something suspicious, thank you for the clarification. 2. I can let you know if I find a fitting game for you, I even can PM you if I need help with projects of my own... just please don't take my projects away in secret, ok pal?
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Gay
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Does anyone still interested in making a new run of this game? I wanted to try again, but I see people like Kurabupengin and Samsara, who is willing to take a chance. But since then, they never did anything about this game, I wonder if they are still interested.
Gay Dominguez Jr.
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Gay wrote:
Does anyone still interested in making a new run of this game? I wanted to try again, but I see people like Kurabupengin and Samsara, who is willing to take a chance. But since then, they never did anything about this game, I wonder if they are still interested.
I'm currently working on a couple of collab projects, so I don't really have time to check in the game. Maybe later, but I'm not so sure. Maybe after that we can work together some time.
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