Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Defeat Vampire. Is this Boss Fight Ok? Fast enough and look good? I must one or two time walk a little circle that the little bats fly in the wrong way, or they will hit me. I have try many times and many different ways, but this has work good and look good I think.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Vampire fight looks pretty good. I have some questions though, and there some spots you can definitely improve. In the swamp on the first screen after leaving Kett's and some other places you have missed hits with your weapon when you try to attack too fast. If you wait and attack when you can hit the enemy, could you kill some enemies faster? For example, the last lizardman before you get the key. On the last screen before the battleaxe shop, you move around the swamp plants. But with one sickle swing you can get through on the left side much faster. Also, you should take a hit on the spikes near the last stairs before the chain. When you backtrack, you'll gain a level and then you can take another hit. Ok, one more idea-is it necessary to get "the man" to follow you in marsh cave? He talks for a while, wasting time, and his shots are pretty weak. What happens if you don't get him, can you still go through the cave?
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Kill enemies faster? Not sure. Sometimes when the Will is higher, I will defeat them too faster, but it takes time at the beginning till the Will is higher. So I try in some places to hit them as fast as possible. When I wait some seconds to hit again it takes too a bit time. Swamp, not sure. I walk all the time and when I use the weapon I can't walk and it takes too a bit time till the way is open. Its only some steps up and down again. So I am not sure what is faster. I want to take no damage, when there is another way. So at the end I will only take damage 4 times. Spikes around the stairs in the Castle. Lava infront of a door and the spikes in the Mantis Ant room 2 times. I will count this then as no damage run, because there is no way around these places, but all other places you must not take damage. I can too get damage from enemies and they push me faster to the door, but I don't want this in my run. When someone will do a faster run and take all the time damage, its ok. But I want a clean run with a few damage as possible. Its much harder and look better for me. About the man too not sure, I think you can skip him like chocobo first time. But I think he hit the Hydra too much when he is far away where I can't hit and this help me maybe to defeat Hydra faster, so I get him to help me. In some rooms he has kill too some enemies, so I think it save a bit time.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Defeat Megapede. Always hit him without missing and as soon as possible. At the beginning he looks one time out from his cave and later came complete out. I have hit him the first time he looked out too and last hit was as he try to came out the third time. This time I have not change the weapon in this Stage, because the Battle Axe is stronger then the other weapons I own. With Frame Advance & SaveStates the switches are too very easy with Axe and the Boss is too easy. Inside the cart I have always spin, looks better then do nothing. I have too defeat some spiders which in my way or around the cart. Edit: Have think, Battle Axe is my strongest weapon at the moment. But Chain is 2 AP more. Maybe I try Megapede again with the Chain and see how much faster this is. You can maybe hit him better with the long Chain and faster too. Will test it later. But maybe the Axe is better, because I need the Axe again after this Stage is done. So it save time, that I must not always equip new weapons. Try a bit with chain, but you can not hit him good enough I think. Axe attack in circle, so you can hit him good sometimes. For chain you must stand straight to his head and this is not often. So axe is better for 2 things. I must not reequip it after the fight and I can hit the Boss more times and faster. Buy Silver Sword after that fight and arrive now at the Airship. Done Airship. Werewolfs at the end was hard. But done without get damage. Arrive at Medusa Cave with Chocobo. He is faster, so I go the way and get him. Level Up to on the way, which will help me more for Boss Fights and other enemies. So its worth the way. And I will run the next ways all with chocobo.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Defeat Medusa. But chain was much better as Silver Sword. I have try both. 1. I must equip Silver Sword what take time. 2. I can't hit medusa so good with sword. I must go near her and can then only hit her one time. Then I must move to a better place or the snakes will hit me. And I can't hit her 2 times in a row, the second one will miss when I am to fast. And I record both times, but sword takes again much longer. So I defeat her with chain. There I can hit more times in a row without moveing from a save place.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
I looked at your movie and think the gameplay seems flawed. I made a new start with this game to see if it could be improved. I played up to Bogard's house and its more than 10 seconds faster, but I kill less enemies here and that might be bad. VBM file and this can be improved even further.
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
You must kill enemies, because its important to Level Up. So you can defeat the Bosses faster, and later you need enough HP points for Spikes or Lava where you can't go around. You lose much HP from the lava and the spikes in the Mantis Ant room. And you must go over it. When you defeat only Bosses and not enough enemies the lava and spikes will kill you. Maybe not the first spikes, but in the Mantis Ant room you lose much like by lava. And when you have a lower Level later you will take longer in Boss Fights. Then its maybe more then 10 seconds which get lost. I have see it in my first run by the Dragon. I defeat him near the same time as in the second run, where I hit him near perfect. By my first run I have make many errors and have not hit him so often. But was 1 Level higher I think. Or have I make other big errors? I now that some parts can maybe improved. But you must too manipulate luck much. So sometimes later in the game I wait 1 or 2 frames, that the next room is easier and I can run through it better. On GameFAQs somebody write about a Low Level Run. But the Lava kill him, because he has not enough HP. So Level Up is much important for this game. And I try to kill only enemies which in my way or which I can hit without go to far from the best way.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Great job Tafatt, I had suspected things could be faster. By my analysis you are 91 frames ahead after the first fight and 322 frames (5 sec) ahead after the second. It looks like you did the arena fights a little faster and maybe you are scrolling the dialog faster. Also, naming the girl with one letter makes her name go by faster since the text is displayed one letter at a time. What else could you do faster, kill even fewer enemies? I don't think many levels are needed to finish the game. Also, I believe that some of the spikes do damage based on your max hp or level, so on a low level you just have to make sure you take hits at the right time. By skipping to bigger enemies you can kill fewer enemies and get levels anyway. Well, I think you should both keep going with your runs. It sounds like Matty will be no damage and a little higher level, while Tafatt seems to be going for pure speed. Now that I think about it, I'm sorry to say this Matty, but I would prefer to see hits taken to speed things up. This makes the run more interesting because it adds another resource to be managed. Also, the lowest level possible will probably be best. For one thing, every time you get a level you have to listen to the jingle and then pick power, wasting time. The hp restore will be useful though. So Tafatt, I hope to see more of your run, make it as fast as possible. You've probably been following the thread so you know my suggestions. Matty, if you want to finish your current run then fine, but Tafatt has clearly demonstrated that you're doing something wrong...
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
I know that I have little errors on the text scrolling at the beginning. Till Bogard house. I have make a little error with Frame Advance and press buttons wrong to skip to the next text. So the next text came sometimes a bit slower. But after that I have make no big errors anymore. And Level Up for Bosses are much important to defeat them faster. As I say before. Wacht my first version and second version the Dragon Boss. Near the same time. 1. version many errors. 2. version no errors. And 1. version my Level was higher. And Low Level is near impossible. As I say before the lava and spikes in Mantis Ant will kill you. I lost many HP there in my first run. 1. Spikes around the stairs = 38 HP 2. Lava = 69 HP 3. Spikes Mantis Ant = 75-78 HP 2 times. You will lose much HP, has nothing to do with you Level I think. So I will Level up where I can and defeat enemies which in may way. So Bosses will be much faster too. When you try to kill later enemies for more exp points you must hit them more often and it takes more time too I think. But when you do you run to the finish Tafatt good luck. Maybe watch my bad first version to see which items you need at which time. 3 Mattock chests 5-6 Key chests (when you go another way you can save one Key. But I think the other way is longer) 6 Crystal chests EDIT: I defeat now Davias. Have think, that this fight will be hard. But it was very easy. He move always the same. And when you have luck he stay longer at one side and you can hit him more times in a row. Must only sometimes move because some Fireballs will hit you when you stand on the same place. And I use chain, because with sword I can't reach him. Can't go through his fireballs without get hit. And about the spikes. In this Davias Stage where both versions from the spikes. In the room with the magician are the same as in the Mantis Ant room. And this will kill me with this Level where I am right now with one hit. The other spikes not. These have maybe something to do with your Level, because in my first run where I have a higher Level I lose much more HP. But here I will not die. You lose ca. 2/3 from your HP I think.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
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And Low Level is near impossible.
"near impossible" is meaningless in the context of a timeattack. It's either possible or not, and even then it's hard to really say something is impossible. If you really need more hp from fewer levels then you could get stamina for some number of levelups. I don't think this will be necessary or desirable though, I'm sure you can find enough enemies to kill to get the hp from just power levelups. As far as keys and mattocks, it may be fine to get them all from enemies, but remember you can also buy them at the oil shop.
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
I have improved the part I played on. This time I kill 12 enemies instead of 3 and I am still 5 frames faster than the previous VBM file. Here is the new file. VBM file Some comments: 8930: Going up here instead of down would be faster but the enemies blocks the way. I like that I get a double kill here. 9185: I get pushed down by the walking mushroom and it is saving time (25 frames). Before I leave the screen I walk right some steps and by pressing down at the right time I get pushed into a better position when the next screen is loaded (saves up to 3 frames). I do this on all screens where it is possible later on. 13100: This screen would have been slightly faster if I wouldn't have been disturbed by the flying monster but I could not get any better spawn here.
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
I have test now the Crab Boss. I think there is chain the best weapon. Because you can hit him up and down. With Axe or Sword you can only hit him when you walk at the top part. So you must wait the half time to hit him and this cost much time I think. And I need Axe again after the fight and I have test it to with reequip the axe after the fight, but this is still faster and look better when use the chain then the axe for the Crab Boss. So I will defeat him later with chain.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
So now after over 1 hour an update from me. Defeat now more Bosses. Last was Dark Lord. Looks great, because I most hit him and run through him. Normaly he kill you when he touch you but when you are fast after the hit he can't kill you. A great room was the one in the Castle with the 2 soldiers which you must turn into snowman and push on the switches. After many tries and Luck Manipulation I have done it without ever touch a snowman. So 2 snowman on the switches without move them. Looks great and I have not lose much time with this. Hit only one soldier before with Morning Star, that he slide into the right way. But then I ice them onto the switches. I think the time is great too. When I right its 10 minutes faster then the 1st Version at this point. I hope I can win more time in the next stages too. And I hope a good time under 2 hours. I hope a time between 1:40 - 1:50 at the end. And this with a Lower Level at the moment. But I think I will Level up on the way to the Bone Cave. Because I need more HP later.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
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Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Say, I was wondering if Tafatt or anyone else is still working on this run. Just curious and hopeful for an improved attempt...
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Yes, it would be great to see a much improved version from this run. I will not do a third run, because it takes too much time and I have not the patience for this adventure game. Its maybe important to find out the lowest Level, which you need to get save over Lava and the Mantis Ant spikes. I have no idea, but you lose much HP there. I will start now with easier games and work hard on Catrap in the moment. It will too a long run (maybe 1 hour), but is much easier to run. And this will be fast as possible, when there are no faster routes through some Stages, which is maybe possible and when I have not found them yet.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Joined: 12/10/2004
Posts: 82
Location: Ruotsi
Sorry, I have not worked much on this. After Kett's I am about 43 seconds faster. Most time is saved because of better text scrolling.
Ambassador, Experienced player (709)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
Well, I hope you continue sometime, I know all too well how hard it can be to stay motivated through a long run like this. What you have so far is great, I love how you use the hits for a little boost.
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
I try it now again since some days. And saved myself 1810 Frames by the first arrive at Kett's. Still not so fast as Tafatt, but the main reason is the hits he takes and I will do a no hit run as the second version from this speedrun. So I am 256 Frames behind Tafatt's run. My first Boss fight is 2-8 Frames behind Tafatt's. But much faster (over 300 Frames) as my second try. And I saved 6 Frames from the name entry. I just enter one A by both characters. I do now a perfect text scrolling, which save much time, I think maybe more then Boss fights. I lose much in Bogards house, because I hold to long the button and have not know how Frame Advance work exact. And have not do a perfect scrolling in the complete game. Now I swing the sword not so often, because it takes longer then only hit infront of you. I try always to use the sword with the first step I can take, so I walk a bit and use the sword at the same time. So I lose not much time. You will still stand a bit, but not so long as you use the sword while you standing. This time it will take much longer I think, because I try to do my best this time. By every little fight Frame Advance to fight as fast as possible, take the first step and use sword. And see where I must enter the next screen to get the best way through enemies. So don't think it will be so fast finish as my second try. I will take much more time to do it, and will do much longer breaks. And I hope I don't lose my motivation so fast. Here my first work: Bronze Key EDIT: Defeat now the Lizards for the Bronze Key. Was a hard fight, but I think I found a fast and good way through it. I try to use only the sword when I can hit a lizard. Thats the reason, that it looks sometimes not so fast as possible. But then I can't hit the lizards anymore so it would be useless to attack. So I must wait some frames before I can hit them again. I must hit every lizard 4 times with this Level. 2746 Frames faster as my second one.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Restart again, because I know the 1. Boss was not so good as possible. Now I found the fastes way. Takes as long as Tafatt fight and its the fastest possible way. Because you must hit him 8 times and this is always the first Frame, where you can hit him. My fight end 6 Frames faster, because I just enter A for Girl too. But the fight is near the same, only a bit different moves, but same result and same speed. Only that I always attack with sword up and never swing the sword. And you can save I think 3 Frames, when you move like Tafatt done it through some screens, that the character jumps some frames to a site which you need. I try now to do it too everywhere it is possible and save time. PS: The file is the old one. Will update it later, when I have done a bit more. In the moment only the first Boss is done, and this is not much. New File: Fight for Bronze Key Is at this point 8 Frames faster the Tafatt runs. 6 Frames because only A and 2 Frames, because I use the trick which Tafatt found out later in his run. Done at the first screen to the right after speak with Willy. Saved 2 Frames. I think this is impossible to beat at this moment. Only later, because I still want to do a no damage from enemis run. ;) Edit: Arrive now at Kett's. And only 99 Frames behind Tafatt. Saved some time, because I don't fight so much enemies. And always use the room scroll glitch when its possible. Edit2: Bronze Key fight look great I think. This time I have luck (or manipulate it good enough), all Lizards at the right side. So I must not walk so far away. Only at the end I wait some Frames to defeat both Lizards with one hit. Saved 7 Frames, so its worth the waiting. :-)
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Hello to all. Maybe some have already read, that I now do a 3rd run from this game as perfect as possible. And I think my beginning is great and near as fast as possible in a no damage run. I need some advice what could I do about getting items. Earlier someone mean I should buy keys in the shop, where I must buy the oil. Thats maybe a good idea and will maybe save a bit time (I will test it maybe later how much it takes to buy items and how much the luck manipulation takes). I can too buy there mattocks. But one night on work I have think about something different, which will maybe help to get too a much better and faster time. That I can maybe manipulate the luck so good, that I always get so many chest which I need in the next Stages. This will save maybe too time, because the menu scrolling is so bad in this game and will take long till I scroll to the complete menu and equip the last items. So I must only get a new mattock or key chest, when I need it. So I must not scroll to the complete menu and the items always at the top from the menu. Only sometimes I need 2 key chest, because it is better to equip 4 new keys the equip 1 old key. I hope someone understand what I mean. But it will take long, because I must often see the complete movie and look, where I can get the next items. What is the best way and which is the fastest way. But at the end I think it is faster as when I have a full item list, because all needed items at the top.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
Nobody say something? Then I do it this way. I have make now a list, what I must get at which place. Can be, that this list contain one little error, after I look at this again. But I will watch my second movie again to find the best way to get items I hope. 7 mattock = 1 mattock chest 4 key = 1 key chest 1 Crystal = 1 Crystal chest Bogard house get 7 mattock (7 mattock) West Cave use 1 mattock (6 mattock) Marsh Cave get 7 mattock & 4 key use 5 mattock & 1 key (8 mattock & 3 key) Kett get 3 Crystal & 7 mattock use 1 Crystal, 5 mattock & 2 key (2 Crystal, 10 mattock & 1 key) Silver Cave use 4 mattock (2 Crystal, 6 mattock & 1 key) After Gaia Cave use 1 Crystal (1 Crystal, 6 mattock & 1 key) Flying Ship get 4 key & 2 Crystal use 1 key & 1 mattock (3 Crystal, 5 mattock & 4 key) Medusa Cave get 4 key use 2 mattock & 1 key (3 Crystal, 3 mattock & 7 key) Jadd Davis use 2 mattock & 2 key (3 Crystal, 1 mattock & 5 key) Montain Cave use 1 mattock, 2 key (3 Crystal, 3 key) Castle get 4 key & 1 Crystal use 2 key & 2 Crystal (2 Crystal, 5 key) Ice Cave use 2 key & 2 Crystal (3 key) Bone Cave use 2 key (1 key) Dime Tower get 8 keys use 4 keys (5 keys) ... Later you don't need any more keys chest, so the list is near complete now.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
Joined: 8/13/2005
Posts: 356
Location: Canada
What kind of help are you looking for, MattyXB? That list looks good, and your previous run also planned items pretty well. Are you just wondering about whether it's faster to buy keys or mattocks? One nice thing about getting the keys and mattocks from enemies is that it helps you to level up a little bit as well. This may seem like a backwards idea, but nobody seems to have mentioned it: is it possible that levelling Will could help? Even if you only do it a couple of times it would cut down on the very slow use of Crystal. It would mean a bit less strength though, so that might be a silly idea.
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
FreshFeeling wrote:
That list looks good, and your previous run also planned items pretty well. Are you just wondering about whether it's faster to buy keys or mattocks? One nice thing about getting the keys and mattocks from enemies is that it helps you to level up a little bit as well.
In my second run I have only planed to get all items as fast as possible and use them in the best order. It has work. I have all items complete after Kett's Mansion. But now my planing is much better and harder. I try to get the items at the last possible place where it is possible, to save time. Because menu scrolling is slow in this game and with this planing I have all items which I need at the top place from my item list. So its maybe to faster the just buy everything in the shop and still scroll so long down till I can equip the items. I will now try to work hard and good on this run in the next days. I hope I find enough time to complete it, this time near Frame perfected I think and hope.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty
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Wow, your plans and work so far look good. I suggested buying all the keys and mattocks earlier, but it's really not a big deal. Compared to changes in combat strategy, the menus won't make much of a difference. Honestly, I'd say all you really need to do to make this publishable is speed up the boss fights. Will is a bad deal, I think. It's always good to have more power, and the crystal makes the charging faster anyway.
Player (25)
Joined: 4/23/2005
Posts: 435
Location: Germany
TheAxeMan wrote:
Honestly, I'd say all you really need to do to make this publishable is speed up the boss fights
Yes, I will try my best this time. The first Boss is as fast as possible. And the Lizards look too great I think. No miss and most the ealiest Frame as possible I hit at last one Lizard. Sometimes I must wait some Frames, that I get not hit. Or by the last hit I wait a bit longer to hit both Lizards with one hit. This save too 7 Frames, because I must not use the sword again.
Last TAS finished: Final Fantasy Adventure (4.0 Warp Glitch Run) WIP in the moment: Tail Gator (GB) Matty