1 2
7 8
Editor, Expert player (2312)
Joined: 5/15/2007
Posts: 3855
Location: Germany
I'm basicly a living example of what Warp said. Have been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome at age 2 or so, this has influenced my childhood life (how people treated me and how I was involved in activities, what schools I visited, etc.) by a great deal. What made me skeptical of this diagnosis as an adult was because I got to know better what kind of people my parents are, who would accept the diagnosis without questioning it and raise me accordingly. I can only wonder what kind of person I might have become if things had gone differently, but I also can say that I wouldn't have met the same people that I'm having friendships with now.
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5770
Location: Away
Warp wrote:
Heck, some of the most extrovert people out there may have the worst possible depression episodes imaginable, up to the absolutely worst possible outcome.
Oh yeah, this is actually way more common than it seems at first. Many charismatic and seemingly outward people, including actors, stage performers, and comedians, have struggled with depression and loneliness to the point where they either took their life or died to some silly incident, alone, with no-one noticing until way after the fact. The most devastatingly common mistake is to assume that a person who tends to joke and laugh a lot in social situations must be happy and mentally healthy. Just read some of the obituaries for people like Robin Williams or Keith Flint: you'll often see people (even those claiming to be their friends!) genuinely surprised that such a fun, clever, and charming person would actually be unhappy enough to commit suicide. The combination feels completely counterintuitive because the funny guy™ is very often an outward persona constructed over multiple formative years of mental self-defense against pain, anger, and anxiety. It isn't insincerity per se, but rather a way of perceiving and projecting (the more absurd aspects of) the world that makes it more tolerable. Laughing is by far the oldest, most common way to do so. When a person is laughing, they are, broadly speaking, projecting a message that they are okay and feel at least somewhat secure about the subject—this message can be deceptive even to the person in question. Very often a funny guy™ naturally strives to give other people a good time to vicariously enjoy the world through their eyes, or protect them from the same sort of darkness that gnaws at him, or fulfill a social obligation of not being a downer—all without being deliberate or even conscious about it. This sort of stealth depression is difficult to notice because such counterintuitive behavioral patterns successfully mask it for everyone involved. Speaking from experience, there are several possible traits to look out for in funny guys™: * humor growing darker, more self-depreciative, and/or more cynical over time * malfunctioning empathy, uncaring attitude, desensitization to taboo subjects * tendency towards a highly reclusive behavior, especially following intensely social situations * history of drug or alcohol addiction/abuse * history of abusive or otherwise codependent relationships * tendencies towards reckless behavior and/or extreme sports * tendencies towards body modification (tattoos, piercing, etc.) or sexual deviations * tendencies towards chronic procrastination or other commitment issues If you have a friend who is generally fun to be around but also exhibits some of those traits, pay more attention to them and maybe try to get to know them better. Much like Rick, they might actually be in great pain and longing for human connection.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Banned User, Former player
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
moozooh wrote:
If you have a friend who is generally fun to be around but also exhibits some of those traits, pay more attention to them and maybe try to get to know them better. Much like Rick, they might actually be in great pain and longing for human connection.
On the flipside, a friend who almost never laughs, even when everybody else is laughing (eg. because someone said something funny, or something funny happened) may also be an indication of some kind of long-term issue, such as chronic loneliness. Of course it might just be a personality trait, and there's nothing wrong, but it may also be that they don't laugh much because they don't feel like it because they have chronic depression, chronic loneliness, or some other kind of life situation that decreases happiness and sociability in the long run. How to help such a person is an extraordinarily difficult question, though.
Judge, Skilled player (1278)
Joined: 9/12/2016
Posts: 1645
Location: Italy
my personal page - my YouTube channel - my GitHub - my Discord: thunderaxe31 <Masterjun> if you look at the "NES" in a weird angle, it actually clearly says "GBA"
Site Admin, Skilled player (1235)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11264
Location: RU
Nice vid, it talks about some important things I noticed in myself. The main idea is, there is infinity of paradoxes in reality that we're always missing, and each such paradox can fix some tiny bit of our inner self if we discover it. If you're suffering from some emotion that always comes back and spoils everything, there's always some counter-intuitive notion that makes you go "oh shit, how was I so dumb for so long?! that's how it's supposed to work! hell yeah!". You may spend years not noticing it, with no one around you aware that there's even any solution, let alone knowing what to do exactly. She says that the problem is that your inner self keeps lying to you about things. And the solution is, refusing to get carried away by it. How? For every "unbearable" thought that bounces you around, for every "realistic" thought that pulls you deeper into negativity, it's possible to put your reactions to them on pause, like in emulation, and to examine them. Facing the idea that "the gremlin" gives you, without reacting to it, is very hard. But the thing is, facing it is meant to be hard, so you'd be afraid of seeing that problem in its entirety. If you think you can't bear experiencing some negative emotion or thought in its entirety, you'll keep being bounced and pulled around by its tip. But if you get ready and actually pause yourself in that "unbearable" state, accepting the negative parts of reality but not reacting to them, you'll find out that fear of that state is false, and that fear is the only real problem, blocking your path forward. It's hard to explain this in strict realistic words, so all I have is analogies (after all, feelings really depend on analogies, it's common to say "it feels like X", even if there's no X around you). So the way I learned treating my negative emotions is the same as pets. Every negative emotion is a pet inside you (or a part of you) that hasn't received due care in due time, and it just kept evolving without care, slowly mutating into something "foreign". It's very important to know that humans can not live without care, care is 100% essential to our nature. If you leave a babe in a forest, it will die. If you leave a child with wild animals, they will raise it as one of them, not as a human. Even if you can then take that child and try raising it normally, you'll need to invest tons of extra care to turn them back into human; the later you take them from their savagery, the harder it gets. So the main thesis is: results of lack of care can be fixed by extra care. But what to do if you're the only person who knows what's happening to you, and the only person who can, in theory, care about you? Bring your own care into your own hell! Take every negative emotion that appears, and treat it like a suffering pet: hug it, accept its feelings, and keep petting it calmly until there's no more fear. Once you cure the fear, you turn your previous negative emotion into a friend: a part of you that grew foreign is now back home! Every time you do this, with any new negative emotion or thought, you'll feel more and more alive and natural. Every such step is a part of your personal growth. And personal growth is the only way to turn previous negative experience into positive one!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1235)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11264
Location: RU
EZGames69 wrote:
I found a comic on Reddit today that shows common signs of undiagnosed ADHD, and how that can lead to some forms of depression. I have personally related to each one of these experiences, and I believe it has caused issues with my life as a whole. That’s not to say this is the only way some may experience depression, but it does personally speak to me as someone who does suffer from high functioning autism and ADHD.
I've been rather impulsive for most of my life, and it shows in some of my past forum posts, but I do believe it can be controlled to some degree. The first rule that I never realized was "Never follow your passion. But always take it with you." In 2018, when preparing to become a senior judge, I took it as seriously as I could, and managed to improve my impulsiveness by a lot. Now I can formalize the approach I took. Every new and exciting idea or just a thought that magically sparks you honestly feels awesome, enjoyable, pleasant, and following it promises to be honestly awesome too. Often, upon actually trying, it isn't. It kept happening with me on the internet and IRL for years. So I added an extra criterion. In addition to it being awesome, I now ask myself, will it also be flawlessly useful? It's like demanding everything you consider doing to mix both business and pleasure. How do you know it mixes them both? It takes learning a skill to reject anything that only promises joy. The "awesome" idea may even be harmful, but it still always relies on some kind of enjoyment. Reject any emotion that's related to the idea, ignore the idea itself, and ask your heart "is everyone seriously going to love this idea and find it useful?" If the answer is "not sure", work on it to hear "now it's actually perfect, reasonable, reusable, reliable, and also quite cool". Never take shortcuts. This approach is gradual, you develop it like a muscle, and it takes a certain level of despair, years of failures and consequences, to decide to learn it at any cost.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (3964)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2706
Location: Michigan
I see what you mean. It's pretty easy for someone to get carried away with thinking of the positive outcomes of such ideas, but never taking time to think of the cons because they are not happy thoughts. Sometimes that even leads to your idea not feeling like the best idea, which is a good thing. I still struggle with restraining myself, especially when it's about something I'm passionate about, whether it's TASing, making videos, talking with friends, etc. There are some things that I know I should restrain myself with, but my excitement gets the best of me. I think I've gotten better at restraining myself over the years, though it still sometimes slips. What I've actually done recently to help me is I created a private twitter account, where I can just rant about anything I feel would be too much for others to listen to. It has really been a good way for me to vent without having to DM someone in particular. Anyone that chooses to follow that twitter account can respond with their thoughts if they have something to say. But really the whole purpose of such an account is for me to SAY SOMETHING, and this way it doesn't intrude on anyone. Sometimes we all need to yell into a pillow if we are feeling angry or energetic, we don't wanna scare others away just because we have lots of energy that we don't yet know how to control. and yes, it definitely takes experience to learn how to cope with it.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Site Admin, Skilled player (1235)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11264
Location: RU
EZGames69 wrote:
I see what you mean. It's pretty easy for someone to get carried away with thinking of the positive outcomes of such ideas, but never taking time to think of the cons because they are not happy thoughts.
That's actually a misconception. If the idea combines honest joy and flawless usefulness, what can be better? And if it's so good that after all the perfection and implementation it also works out in reality, that's actual happiness! Until then, any idea can be improved. By a lot. It's what we have time for, just like in TASing. It's taking excitement to a new level. "Man I'm so excited by what this idea will become if I work on it super hard before implementing it publicly!"
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1235)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11264
Location: RU
feos wrote:
If you're suffering from some emotion that always comes back and spoils everything, there's always some counter-intuitive notion that makes you go "oh shit, how was I so dumb for so long?! that's how it's supposed to work! hell yeah!". [...] For every "unbearable" thought that bounces you around, for every "realistic" thought that pulls you deeper into negativity, it's possible to put your reactions to them on pause, like in emulation, and to examine them. Facing the idea that "the gremlin" gives you, without reacting to it, is very hard. But the thing is, facing it is meant to be hard, so you'd be afraid of seeing that problem in its entirety. If you think you can't bear experiencing some negative emotion or thought in its entirety, you'll keep being bounced and pulled around by its tip. But if you get ready and actually pause yourself in that "unbearable" state, accepting the negative parts of reality but not reacting to them, you'll find out that fear of that state is false, and that fear is the only real problem, blocking your path forward.
So I kept working on this for 2.5 years, and I have a more coherent strategy now. It's useless to try to deal with some horrible feeling or emotion in its entirety, because nothing will happen. And to deal with it otherwise, one needs to unlearn 3 things that don't help:
  • Denial/suppression
  • Fighting
  • Submission
After unlearning these 3 visceral ways to react to horror, do the following. Figure out which parts the feeling of horror consists of. Try to imagine a situation that could cause that horror for someone. It's like solving a psycho-moral puzzle that created a ghost that haunts some place and freaks people out. It can only be solved through empathy and emotional understanding. Horrible things happen because of lack of that.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
1 2
7 8