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Method description

  • 2 players(1 control 2)
  • Make players die to achieve some goals
  • Manage luck

Game objectives

  • Complete the game as soon as possible without restriction

Detail explanation

  • 1.In some cases,when the character moves,it will bring some lag frames,which can be avoided by stopping the continuous movement.
  • 2.Only three (and five) enemies of the same kind appeared at the same time.after knocking down the enemy's explosive effect,the enemy will reappear until the end.
  • 3.The position of the role will affect the location of the enemy,but the number of enemy soldiers is the same.therefore,by trying different mobile routes,can indirectly control the position of the enemy,and then get better luck or tactics.
  • 4.Raph's killing efficiency is the highest of the four roles,so he has to be on the stage all the time.
  • 5.There are more enemies in a two-player game,so choose to kill 1P or 2P to reduce the number of enemies(boss HP).
  • 6.Although Mike and Don are the most efficient fighters in the boss battle.but keep Raph in the game,Don's three AB attacks will be more efficient than Mike,so i gave up Mike.
  • 7.Boss has "super armor" time when attacking,such as stage 1 collision,stage 3 chain attack and so on, but there are exceptions.
  • 8.Stage 7's snapping turtle can use its arrow legs (jump B) to trigger it to raise its shield,so that Don's AB can hit three times and interrupt its jump bite to hit three times as well.
  • 9.When super shredder releases lightning bolt attacks, Mike's AB can hit three times, and it also brings some lag frames, but faster.
feos: Judging!
feos: Trimmed 43 blank frames from the movie.
feos: I did an extra comparison and here what I got:
In 2 levels this run loses a bit of time to existing movies, but overall the level of play is significantly better. I can assume that time was lost due to character choice. Since this game is RNG heavy and also involves planning out the score (which gives extra lives that players can borrow from each other), redoing a single level would invalidate most of the future events. So implementing those known improvements would require redoing the whole run.
Nowhere does this movie look sloppy, the author does their best with their character choice, so I believe this movie is worth publishing as a considerable improvement. I also encourage the author to improve it even further through testing various character choices available upon turtle death and probably manipulating the bosses better. Accepting to Moons over [983] NES Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III: The Manhattan Project "2 players" by Xipo in 30:30.87.
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Posted: 12/30/2018 7:33 AM
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electricslide
Joined: 1/27/2014
Posts: 181
Ok. Finally watched this. Why does only one player go at the boss when both could attack him? I see what you've done with the life management to reduce boss health, but it seems to me that both players could team up. At times there are periods where there's nothing going on, or player 2, usually donatello isn't moving. This is good, but I can see what was being said about this not really feeling like a superplay. I don't get the feel of 'style' with this. Does it really belong in Moons?
Posted: 12/30/2018 8:21 AM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
electricslide wrote:
This is good, but I can see what was being said about this not really feeling like a superplay. I don't get the feel of 'style' with this. Does it really belong in Moons?
Good question, I thought about it for this and the previous runs, we'll see how rating goes.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 12/30/2018 3:25 PM
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Memory
She/Her
Site Admin, Skilled player (1558)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1767
Location: Dumpster
GBA TASer of 2020 GBA TAS of 2020 GBA TASer of 2019 Exotic platforms TAS of 2018
I think the problem is that no attempts were made to entertain during downtime, a typical staple of TAS.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Posted: 2/16/2019 7:20 AM
Post subject: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20683
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Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
@feos I improved the game, but I used BUG in Stage 3-1.I would like to ask, is this BUG allowed in the rules?If it's not allowed, give it up this WIP 7-2unfinished work.fm2
Posted: 2/16/2019 8:09 AM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
It looks really awesome this time! I don't see anything problematic with this bug, but please explain how it happens.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 2/16/2019 10:55 AM
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Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
feos wrote:
It looks really awesome this time! I don't see anything problematic with this bug, but please explain how it happens.
This bug is not what I found,I saw it in another video,I don't know who the author is. The author of the video is not the discoverer of bugs. I don't understand the principle,Use this bug only in Stage 3,A role can only be achieved in 0 life. Bugs can lead to the following situations： 1.Bug role has no enemy attention(Similar to World of Warcraft terminology TPS) 2.Bug role, as long as it doesn't die, bugs always exist. 3.This bug make the game 1 palyer mode 4.When the bug character dies, it returns to normal
Posted: 2/16/2019 10:57 AM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Geesk wrote:
3.This bug make the game 1 palyer mode
Does this mean that for the rest of the game you don't have to die with one player anymore to reduce enemies stats?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 2/16/2019 12:28 PM
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Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
feos wrote:
Does this mean that for the rest of the game you don't have to die with one player anymore to reduce enemies stats?
Yes,And boss's HP is also 1 player mode,Until the bug character dies But I'm going to replace Raph with Mike in stage 8-2, so I'll cancel this BUG before then.
Posted: 2/16/2019 12:30 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Okay, sounds valid.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 2/16/2019 7:12 PM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Geesk wrote:
This bug is not what I found,I saw it in another video,I don't know who the author is. The author of the video is not the discoverer of bugs.
Can you link the video, please? EDIT: I've looked into this a bit. First, some useful RAM addresses:
$006A = P1 lives
$006B = P2 lives

$04EB = P1 status
$04EC = P2 status

$04F1 = P1 health
$04F2 = P2 health
The four lowest bits of the status address seem to be the most important; the highest bits can vary depending on which turtle is selected. Usually when a player gets game over, the status address is set to 0x03 for some time, and then to 0x00. When the glitch occurs, P2 status goes from 0x37 (beginning part of jump) to 0x06 (taking damage while in the air?) to 0x04 (rotating part of jump) to 0x35 (standing in place in the ground). It never reaches 0x03, for some reason; this might be the key to the glitch. The P2 lives address, however, goes to 0xC0, which indicates a "game over" state; this is probably why enemies ignore the player.
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 2/17/2019 9:17 PM
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Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
Dacicus wrote:
Can you link the video, please?
Sorry,I have no intention of concealing the discoverer of BUG. Even if I complete the WIP, the BUG discoverer will appear on my list of thanks. The video was re-recorded by a friend of mine.no uploads to the website, so no links.But there are some strategies for pictures and words. This is a link.
Posted: 2/17/2019 9:28 PM
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Dacicus
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Geesk wrote:
Sorry,I have no intention of concealing the discoverer of BUG.
Unfortunately, I don't know the language in the link. Does the discoverer know how the bug works?
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
Posted: 2/17/2019 11:45 PM
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Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
Dacicus wrote:
Unfortunately, I don't know the language in the link. Does the discoverer know how the bug works?
Sorry, my English is too bad to translate. I don't know if the discoverer knows the principle. Because it's also a post from a long time ago. The display is in 2013. 1.Supplementary links 2.Supplementary links
Posted: 2/22/2019 4:29 AM
Post subject: Improvement to glitched state bug?
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ahdok
He/Him
Joined: 2/22/2019
Posts: 1
Location: Cambridge
Hello Geesk. A couple of friends of mine, speedrunners Mecha and PJ (also known as theSuperSNES) were experimenting today with TMNT3, after seeing your video. They have a history of speedrunning this game and the glitched state bug where you kill one player was interesting to them to see how easy it is to use in human play - and they were streaming, so a lot of other people were watching and offering suggestions too. Anyway. I'm not sure if you've tried this... but, after you set up the glitched state for one player, they can then do the exact same process to set up the glitched state on the second player - putting BOTH players into the glitched state. Is this useful? well it looks like with both players in the glitched state, enemies target neither player, (or at least their behaviour is strange.) Additionally, bosses have even less health, and there are multiple missing spawns. It's difficult to maintain the state with 2 human players, because some enemies and effects still deal damage (and you can accidentally kill each other) - but for a TAS, you might be able to save even more time. I've made a highlight video, but Twitch has a bit of an issue right now where new highlights aren't viewable - hopefully that'll be fixed soon. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/384673505
Posted: 2/22/2019 1:55 PM
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feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
That links asks for paid subscription. Here's a better one: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/384570127?t=01h52m22s
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 2/22/2019 8:40 PM
Quote
Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
I also found this problem. I'm working with a friend to improve this TAS It is currently in production. I can't watch videos because of the Internet restrictions in China.(for https://www.twitch.tv/)
Posted: 2/23/2019 12:03 AM
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PJ
He/Him
Joined: 2/1/2011
Posts: 182
Location: Western NY
Yea, the subscriber-only thing was a bug on Twitch's end. I will never lock my content behind a paywall, so I'm pretty upset by the bug. Sorry for the inconvenience! It seems to be resolved now. As Ahdok mentioned, Mecha Richter and I tested activating this glitch on both players and noticed that there were even fewer waves of enemies than with 1 player. I don't know if boss health was reduced further or not. It seems like playing through in this state to get "0 player" spawns might be ideal. Either way, I'm really excited to see the new TAS! Thanks again for sharing this glitch with us! This is a very exciting development.
Posted: 2/23/2019 12:18 AM
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Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
I'm going to finish this WIP first.New ideas may have uncontrollable factors, such as other bugs.It's wasteful to just give up this wip.
Posted: 3/6/2019 7:21 PM
Post subject: Re: Improvement to glitched state bug?
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Geesk
Player (52)
Joined: 12/6/2018
Posts: 30
Location: China
Because of the busy work, my friends and I can't continue this WIP anymore. But we don't think it's necessary to use two-role bugs at all. Because double-role bugs can lead to other unknown consequences，I already know where not refresh is.Some ideas about these not refresh locations： 01.Stage 3 here, killing a player can achieve not refresh(Here are three Spearmen，Continued to three white knife soldiers) 02.Stage 3 here,killing a player can achieve not refresh(Go straight to the boss) 03. Stage 4 and Stage 5 are normal checkpoints, and there will be no non-refresh positions.(That's why we believe that maintaining a character's hatred can help improve the efficiency of killing boss.) 04.stage 6 here，killing a player can achieve not refresh(But it doesn't affect the speed of the rollers here. It doesn't matter if it doesn't die here.) 05.stage 7 here，killing a player can achieve not refresh(Phase 7 has a trade-off,If you kill a player beforehand, there won't be no refresh.) 06.stage 7 here，killing a player can achieve not refresh(Phase 7 has a trade-off,If you kill a player beforehand, there won't be no refresh.) 07.stage 7 here，killing a player can achieve not refresh(Phase 7 has a trade-off,If you kill a player beforehand, there won't be no refresh.) 08.stage 7 here，killing a player can achieve not refresh(If you kill a player beforehand, there won't be no refresh.Go straight to the boss) 09.Stage 8 are normal checkpoints,and there will be no non-refresh positions. 10.Overall, I recommend maintaining a character's hatred.Because if two role bugs are used，There will be bugs that can't continue the game. Here, for example, if two role bugs were used, the two soldiers would never appear.There are many similar consequences.I'm just illustrating one. summary，If a team or individual wants to continue to complete the WIP，Some more techniques: 1.The oblique movement of the character is faster than the lateral movement. 2.Raph is the quickest way to deal with ordinary enemies. 3.Try not to achieve life-rewarding scores when killing boss(Because of the sound effect, the sound effect has a delay of 40 frames.) 4.Control the flying altitude of raph in killing enemy. 5.Krang and super shredder, it's better to Don and Mike. We are confident that we can push the completion time to 27-28 minutes.Unfortunately, the work is too busy.
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