Montezuma's Revenge - for Colecovision

You play as Panama Joe; fearless explorer and treasure hunter. You have decided to brave the trap-filled pyramids of the ancient Aztecs in search of Montezuma's treasure.

Game Basics

  • The game consists of 9 pyramids that must be explored from top to bottom to reach a treasure room at the bottom of each pyramid.
  • Each pyramid gets progressively harder and each pyramid (while similar to the others) is unique:
    • Walls are moved around from stage to stage
    • Enemies are added
    • Traps are added
    • More dark rooms are added
  • Once the 9th stage is beaten, the game loops on Stage 9
  • Various items/tools can be collected
    • Gold Coins - Add points only
    • Amulet - Turns enemies grey and unable to harm you for a limited period of time. Activates upon pickup.
    • Sword/Dagger - Kills either a skull or spider. Once used it is lost. Snakes cannot be killed with this item.
    • Torch - Lights up rooms that would otherwise be dark.
    • Keys - Used to open doors of like color
  • Only 5 of these items can be held at any one time.

Pertinent Version Differences

We currently have a publication of this game for the Sega Master System. The following are differences in the C64/Colecovision port.
  • SMS has 11 pyramids, C64 and Colecovision only has 9
  • Treasure rooms
    • SMS are singular rooms; C64 and Colecovision are multiple screens wide and theoretically infinite screens vertically
    • SMS contain traps; C64 and Colecovision do not.
    • SMS can be finished by death or by exiting either side of the room.
    • C64 and Colecovision can be finished by reaching a pole on either extreme left or right side of the room; however, the Coleco version doesn't have a timeout period before you are kicked out to the next level entrance.

Tools Used:

Bizhawk 2.3.1 Ram Watch Lua Script (for generating frame counts for every room)

TAS Notes

I started working on this TAS by myself when EZGames69 referred DrD2K9 to me. This is when I found out that we were working on the same game, but for different consoles. Since the C64 turned into a glitch fest, we decided too embark on improving what I had. The collaboration was extremely fruitful and we got a lot out of this effort by challenging each others inputs.
Among our efforts, we committed to heavy experimentation (different routes, different key grabbing patterns, and movement optimization) and finally came to the conclusion, one level at a time on whether or not we thought this effort was optimized.
Finally, we get to see a full run of this game where no glitches were discovered. DrD2K9 was nice enough to hold up his submission until we cleared this one away so that we could submit them together.
Level 1
  • This is the only level that this route is used in. Two big things occur here that were used to cut the most time possible...and they were used in the same room.
  • A precise jump at frame 2584 allows a skip between an opening. This can only occur, when the character's body is shifted a certain way. At first, this wasn't thought possible, but DrD2K9 made the first part of this discovery. The second part came from me find a faster way to pass through the gap in the floor, without having to jump.
  • At frame 2793 a death was used. Dying will take you back to the beginning of the room, it cuts off a number of seconds without having to go through the slow rope climb.
  • It is important to note that any fall distance beyond 2 blocks deep, will cause a death; however, if you can catch a rope...you can fall as much as you like and avoid dying. At frame 4852, this is accomplished.
  • Also, jumping the rope is much faster than climbing, which is seen at frame 4885.
  • A jump at frame 5222 was done to maximize the fast fall without dying. This occurs on the edge of 3 blocks...in this case 2 block and 7 pixels...the absolute max fall distance to avoid death.
  • As with all level endings, there is a Treasure Room that just be traversed. In the Colecovision version...the behavior is much different than that of the Commodore 64 version done by DrD2K9. Here, lots of time can be save by traversing the the left or right side of the Treasure Room as fast as possible. The optimal situation is to land on the pole at the last frame near the bottom. This triggers the next room and continues on to the next level. With the C64 version, the fall continues for a few rooms and then matches up with the next level entrance.
    • The treasure rooms are purely RNG and can be controls by the frame you enter them on. With careful analysis, you can find the most optimum pattern.
Level 2
  • The entire game has a lot of similarities and you'll notice that the next 8 levels always has the same starting point. The difference each level, comes with different barriers and key placements. Because of this, routing starts to change...pushing us to discover the best route around the new obstacles.
  • At frame 7452, a bunny hop was performed to grab a key. This will not be seen much, since the bunny hop was the only way we knew in grabbing the key. Later on, I discovered the body shift that allowed us to grab it on the way down. Now, this make appear to make the TAS unoptimized, but the problem is trying to time up our route with the disappearing floors and chains. This bunny hop lost about 19 frames in some cases, but it wasn't enough to make up for passing through an area on an early cycle. So, this did not impact the TAS.
    • DrD2k9: Specifically, removing the bunny hop in the levels it exists would require an additional 29, 56, and 44 frames to be found elsewhere in levels 2, 3 and 5 respectively before the first disappearing floor that needs fallen through in those levels.
  • Another thing to note about the increasing difficulty of these levels, is that darkness will occur earlier and earlier.
Level 3
  • Same thing at the beginning. Route changes a bit and an early Red key is grabbed at frame 11755. This helped to reduce later traversing for an extra red key and gave us the ability to pass by another cycle of disappearing floors.
Level 4
  • At the start, the difficult is becoming more visible with more enemy obstacles.
  • At frame 16108, the first jump with a body shift occurs for grabbing the Grey key. This time, it was necessary to slip through a cycle in the coming rooms. This shift was made possible by stopping forward motion for one frame and then reversing the opposite direction.
Level 5
  • Almost the same route as 4. Darkness occurs even earlier.
Level 6
  • Same start as 5, but the early Red key is cut off from grabbing...so we had to alter the route to find a fast red key.
Level 7
  • The inputs for 7 seems to be a repeat of multiple levels before, but we struggled to find 2 or 3 frames in level to skip a cycle. I eventually reasoned out how it was better to approach from the right side to grab the key. This made it faster attach to the ladder from the left side...since you can start descending faster from the left, rather the right. Discovering this strategy made it possible to skip the upcoming cycle on the last frame and thus eliminating 103 frames for this level alone.
Level 8
  • More of the same. One thing to note though...the Treasure Room optimization caused us to come in on a different frame of the floor/chain cycle. Sometimes it was necessary to rearrange the grab order of keys in order to take advantage of the cycles.
Level 9
  • The final stage is in complete darkness, until the end...where a torch happened to be in the way of us moving towards the exit. This was unexpected, since our maps didn't show the item. On treasure room, the TAS needed to end on the last jump. So extra time was given to find out how far back we can make that last jump to make it over to the pole to the ending of the game.
  • The game is over now, since the next level is a repeat of Level 9.
Suggested Screen Shot: Frame 2284

feos: This game is quite impressive, with unexpectedly complicated routing and fast pace for this platform. Optimization looks good, and where it doesn't, it's the game's limitation. The game code makes it play level 9 indefinitely, and even though this movie's level 9 input doesn't sync on yet another level 9 (even after basic adjustments you die here), ending after level 9 is correct.
There wasn't a lot of feedback so it's hard to assess it, but I think this game does deserve a Moon, especially compared to other Coleco publications that feature simpler games and still have Moons ratings. Accepting.
fsvgm777: Processing.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15585
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #6374: nymx & DrD2k9's Coleco Montezuma's Revenge in 11:18.44
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4462)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2762
I really liked watching this one. The movements are incredibly tight and it really is satisfying to watch. Yes vote. Also am I the only one that finds it annoying to see an all lowercase name come before a name with capital letters in it? “nymx & DrD2K9” just looks weird to me for some reason.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2235)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
EZGames69 wrote:
Also am I the only one that finds it annoying to see an all lowercase name come before a name with capital letters in it? “nymx & DrD2K9” just looks weird to me for some reason.
Well, I know some people are picky about the capitalization of their name...but I can understand what you are talking about. I've used NYMX in other areas...but I think I have a bad case of OCD. So, I better figure out what I want to do with all my submissions...especially that SM TAS I did years ago! LOL
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
GJTASer2018
He/Him
Joined: 1/24/2018
Posts: 304
Location: Stafford, NY
I also voted Yes because it's fun watching the guy scamper around the screen (and I've also heard that the controls on the Colecovision version are not great to begin with, so TAS really helps in this case). I also think it would be worth trying a "max score" run i.e. collect everything you can get to, kill all the enemies you can and find the optimum treasure room run to collect as much as you can out of it. The Colecovision version has an advantage for that type of run considering you're not under a time limit there.
c-square wrote:
Yes, standard runs are needed and very appreciated here too
Dylon Stejakoski wrote:
Me and the boys starting over our games of choice for the infinityieth time in a row because of just-found optimizations
^ Why I don't have any submissions despite being on the forums for years now...
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2235)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
GJTASer2018 wrote:
I also voted Yes because it's fun watching the guy scamper around the screen (and I've also heard that the controls on the Colecovision version are not great to begin with, so TAS really helps in this case).
You got that right, but at the time we used those controllers...we really didn't know any better. So, it was ignorant fun. :)
GJTASer2018 wrote:
I also think it would be worth trying a "max score" run i.e. collect everything you can get to, kill all the enemies you can and find the optimum treasure room run to collect as much as you can out of it. The Colecovision version has an advantage for that type of run considering you're not under a time limit there.
I'm usually interested in any% only, but on rare occasions...I would consider others. A max score makes a bit more sense, but its not enough for me to TAS it. Would you be interested? I would be glad to share the knowledge we've learned from this game.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
DrD2k9
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2219)
Joined: 8/21/2016
Posts: 1090
Location: US
GJTASer2018 wrote:
I also think it would be worth trying a "max score" run i.e. collect everything you can get to, kill all the enemies you can and find the optimum treasure room run to collect as much as you can out of it.
In my opinion, this would essentially be a "100%" run. I'd define 100% as including all of the following:
    -Visiting each room at least once -Collect all Gold Coins -Collect and use all swords (likely not enough in each stage to kill all killable enemies) -Collect all torches (not sure if multiple can be collected within one stage or not) -Collect all amulets -Collect and use all keys (or at least as many keys as there are doors); if there are more keys than doors, finish the stage with as many extra keys as can be held (up to 5). -Collect the maximum possible treasure/coins in the treasure rooms until time runs out.
Truly the only major difference between 100% and max score would be the requirement to visit all rooms in 100%. Theoretically a 100% run should yield a max score run. Even if 100% didn't require visiting all rooms it would still likely yield a max score. The only major score variable would be optimization/maximization of treasure room coins collected. FWIW, I have no desire to 100% this game. I don't think it would be any more entertaining, and it would be so much longer with all the backtracking necessary to accomplish 100%. I wouldn't be surprised if it eclipsed the 2 hour mark. And the route planning would be INSANE! EDIT: After further thought, I don't think visiting every room should be necessary. We don't require visiting every room in other games to get 100% (Super Metroid for example).
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2235)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
DrD2k9 wrote:
And the route planning would be INSANE!
Absolutely!!!
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
$71A6 is level counter, and it does indeed cap out at 9.
Language: asm

8E38: 21 A6 71 LD HL, 71A6h AF:0444 BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A7 8E3B: 7E LD A, (HL) AF:0444 BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6 8E3C: FE 09 CP 09h AF:0844 BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6 8E3E: 30 01 JR NC, +01h AF:089B BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6 8E40: 34 INC (HL) AF:089B BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2235)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 932
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
feos wrote:
$71A6 is level counter, and it does indeed cap out at 9.
Language: asm

8E38: 21 A6 71 LD HL, 71A6h AF:0444 BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A7 8E3B: 7E LD A, (HL) AF:0444 BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6 8E3C: FE 09 CP 09h AF:0844 BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6 8E3E: 30 01 JR NC, +01h AF:089B BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6 8E40: 34 INC (HL) AF:089B BC:005C DE:8900 HL:71A6
Thanks feos. The thing that DrD2K9 and I discovered, is that there is a global timer that runs the disappearing chains and floors. Because of that, the inputs are needing a shift of a certain amount of frames; however, that is still not enough...since there is input lag and sometimes a critical input fall within the lag frames that occur ever 5 (or is it 6) frames. So, entering Level 9 (on a different frame) for the second time would also have to be adjusted in order for the shift to work.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15585
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3960] Coleco Montezuma's Revenge by nymx & DrD2k9 in 11:18.44
Joined: 1/13/2007
Posts: 343
I DO think 100% would be entertaining, as it would involve entering many room templates which are never normally seen in a run of the game. Some of them are quite interesting, as people who decide to just explore have discovered. Yes, it's a pain to route. :) 9 is the hardest level, at which all levels are dark, and the torches are removed, except for that weird CV only one. There are three basic routes that people who are trying to beat level 9 follow. The tas optimization is petty nice actually. Route 1 is the way most people beat the game on level 1. You are pretty much forced into it, though there are branches near at the end. Collection of the torch is not needed for RTA at all, as the dark area is incredibly straightforward. You CAN explore and find it though. Route 2 is the way most beat the game on level 2, with route 1 blocked. You are again forced into it. it has more side options though. At a certain point, an option that allows you to jump from route 2 back to route 1 presents itself when you grab the first torch on route 2. this modified route 2 is route 3. Most RTA player collect the torch whenever following route 2. The core of these routes never changes. most of the other variations in wall placement affect nothing on said routes.