Eh, it's just the most recent case. I've seen quite a bit of "personing" men and women when it comes to medical, biosex-related output. And they don't like it. And it's not transphobic to dislike it.
Neat, we are talking about trans? All I wanted to say is showing gender on a forum is not politics, but ok :P This off topic is hot
@Blazephlozard
You don't have to worry too much, there are measures in place to help trans people to deal with what they have to deal with. Per example:
- You don't have the right to change your gender before you are an adult (18 years old here). Helps to not make mistakes. If you feel you are not in the good body, you can take hormonal blockers when you are younger, making it not permanent in case you change your idea
- You can't do any legal medical procedures about gender change unless you communicate with a psychologist first. They are professionnals who can help you distinguish the difference between tomboy and trans per example. If you feel you are a real trans and not just someone striving for attention, you should ALWAYS go see a psychologist. They are the experts
- Sex related surgery takes a lot of preparation, you need like 1 year of intense therapy before, there are specialists helping you understand all the risks and can even say "no" if they feel you are not ready/you will regret it. Fun part is: it's free if you pass all the "tests"
Obviously, there is still some cracks in the system, and not everyone is happy, but these procedures are for me super important. These are long and rough procedures by real experts to distinguish the difference between "real" trans people and "false positives". As I always say for EVERYTHING, you can almost never self diagnose yourself. It's simply dangerous
I hope it makes you feel better about the trans "fashion". With rigourous measures, there's almost no way someone makes a mistake. Being trans will never be a mode, it's a serious psychological effect (gender dysphoria) that only a REALLY SMALL MINORITY of people have
Also most trans people will never say they are trans unless it's applicable with the situation. No trans wants to be trans :P
Tasvideos as a site is completely neutral towards everything.
I don't agree with that. Tasvideos has made some political choices, and it's ok to do so. For example, using Creative Commons for movies, or allowing people to display their gender in the forum.
Man, the definition of 'political' is getting stretched so thin...
Ok, tasvideos as a site does not (and imo should not) participate in any activism
I may remember wrong, but I think, TASVideos as a site has participated in activism: Back when I was the person at the helms, I once put a banner to raise awareness regarding some dangerous copyright law proposal thing (I forget the exact details). It was relevant, because it threatened the transmission of information on this site.
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Bisqwit wrote:
I may remember wrong, but I think, TASVideos as a site has participated in activism: Back when I was the person at the helms, I once put a banner to raise awareness regarding some dangerous copyright law proposal thing (I forget the exact details).
Copyright laws are related to the purpose of the site though.
It'd be annoying though if our site started advertising something unrelated to its purpose like Go Shave the Whales or something.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Neat, we are talking about trans? All I wanted to say is showing gender on a forum is not politics, but ok :P This off topic is hot
@Blazephlozard
You don't have to worry too much, there are measures in place to help trans people to deal with what they have to deal with. Per example:
- You don't have the right to change your gender before you are an adult (18 years old here). Helps to not make mistakes. If you feel you are not in the good body, you can take hormonal blockers when you are younger, making it not permanent in case you change your idea
- You can't do any legal medical procedures about gender change unless you communicate with a psychologist first. They are professionnals who can help you distinguish the difference between tomboy and trans per example. If you feel you are a real trans and not just someone striving for attention, you should ALWAYS go see a psychologist. They are the experts
- Sex related surgery takes a lot of preparation, you need like 1 year of intense therapy before, there are specialists helping you understand all the risks and can even say "no" if they feel you are not ready/you will regret it. Fun part is: it's free if you pass all the "tests"
Obviously, there is still some cracks in the system, and not everyone is happy, but these procedures are for me super important. These are long and rough procedures by real experts to distinguish the difference between "real" trans people and "false positives". As I always say for EVERYTHING, you can almost never self diagnose yourself. It's simply dangerous
I hope it makes you feel better about the trans "fashion". With rigourous measures, there's almost no way someone makes a mistake. Being trans will never be a mode, it's a serious psychological effect (gender dysphoria) that only a REALLY SMALL MINORITY of people have
Also most trans people will never say they are trans unless it's applicable with the situation. No trans wants to be trans :P
This post is 90% head on. I don't mind being trans as I feel it gives me an interesting sort of perspective on life. That being said, do not debate my gender and do not debate the gender of anyone else on the site, regardless of whether or not it is binary. At worst, claiming a gender other than what is displayed on your original birth certificate is harmless to others as long and policing would simply lead to witch hunts.
Also Nach, I think the term for what you were describing on the previous page was "Intersex".
EDIT: Made a sentence more clear
EDIT 2: Also I saw a mention yesterday about "passing". I'd like to note that many cis-gender people do not "pass" as their initial gender, and I don't think it's so much biologically hardwired into our systems. I'm pretty sure that is largely a cultural thing. Many things one looks for in "passing" are rather arbitrary and not even necessarily present in nature.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
I don't mind being trans as I feel it gives me an interesting sort of perspective on life
Never tought of it that way. I just feel being trans for most people is what it is: being in the wrong body. And being in the wrong body not only sounds awful, but I can also say it's not something pleasant (being myself trans). I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. I see trans mostly as an harduous route to finally get my mind in the right body. A... Transition, as I would say :P But maybe it's just me. I don't... Know everything and everybody.
I should add I'm sorry if I said false things, it's mostly part opinion part what I know on the subject. I'm far from perfect in my political views :3
Also I agree gender shown on the site is like the most harmless thing ever ^^ Not like this is a dating site or whatever :P
EDIT: @Blazephlozard Concerning blockers, I guess that's another debate. Most things are debatable anyway. Let's just say it's the best compromise yet done (here at least), and approved by experts (scientists, psychologists), and I'm pretty sure they know better about one's body and mind than us 2 ;)
Neat, we are talking about trans? All I wanted to say is showing gender on a forum is not politics, but ok :P This off topic is hot
@Blazephlozard
You don't have to worry too much, there are measures in place to help trans people to deal with what they have to deal with. Per example:
- You don't have the right to change your gender before you are an adult (18 years old here). Helps to not make mistakes. If you feel you are not in the good body, you can take hormonal blockers when you are younger, making it not permanent in case you change your idea
I really don't know about so casually approving of puberty blockers. To tamper with the natural maturing of one's body just doesn't seem right. And I just cannot see how you could know that change is right for you before you even know about sex. Saying "you have to be 18" followed by saying a major body change you can do before being 18, kinda defeats the point of wanting these decisions to be made at a certain level of maturity.
I feel like I can be swayed into approving of them, because I do know there's good scientific studies out there, proving it's all reversible, but there is still a strong moral objection there that many many people rightfully will have no matter what. Pushing something like puberty blocking into the mix of trans rights just pulls away from all the trans rights that are direly needed, like it being legal to kill someone over their bits.
I'd like to note that many cis-gender people do not "pass" as their initial gender, and I don't think it's so much biologically hardwired into our systems. I'm pretty sure that is largely a cultural thing. Many things one looks for in "passing" are rather arbitrary and not even necessarily present in nature.
Yeah, I shouldn't say it's hardwired like it's from birth. It's more, a lifetime of learning it. Something that can't necessarily be turned off. Like, if someone in real life wanted to be referred to as female, but hasn't begun transitioning, I don't think I could keep "he" from coming out of my mouth, as my eyes and brain subconsciously decided for me...
Most people understand, but there's always that minority that'd get really upset about it, and that minority sours the opinion of the general public. Trans people being overly angry about misgendering is one of the most annoying stereotypes. It's sad...
Hell all of this should have been in the more general politics topic, this topic is about potential site rules, ah well.
Neat, we are talking about trans? All I wanted to say is showing gender on a forum is not politics, but ok :P This off topic is hot
@Blazephlozard
You don't have to worry too much, there are measures in place to help trans people to deal with what they have to deal with. Per example:
- You don't have the right to change your gender before you are an adult (18 years old here). Helps to not make mistakes. If you feel you are not in the good body, you can take hormonal blockers when you are younger, making it not permanent in case you change your idea
I really don't know about so casually approving of puberty blockers. To tamper with the natural maturing of one's body just doesn't seem right. And I just cannot see how you could know that change is right for you before you even know about sex. Saying "you have to be 18" followed by saying a major body change you can do before being 18, kinda defeats the point of wanting these decisions to be made at a certain level of maturity.
I feel like I can be swayed into approving of them, because I do know there's good scientific studies out there, proving it's all reversible, but there is still a strong moral objection there that many many people rightfully will have no matter what. Pushing something like puberty blocking into the mix of trans rights just pulls away from all the trans rights that are direly needed, like it being legal to kill someone over their bits.
Puberty blocking simply delays puberty, it doesn't prevent it forever. If one later on decides they want to go through their natural puberty, they can. Puberty is the thing that is actually permanent and irreversible, not puberty blockers.
And yeah this is fairly offtopic but I felt the need to clarify some things. This should be moved.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
A submitter is allowed to write anything they wish in their submission text, as long as it does not break the site rules regarding adult content, hate speech content, other uncivil material, etc. This includes any sort of political content, regardless of whether it's left-wing or right-wing or if it tackles any sort of specific political issue, as long as, again, it does not violate the site rules. TASVideos is not a political arbiter.
That being said, the submission topic is for discussing the submitted movie itself, not politics. Therefore, discussion of the political statement itself should be done in another topic.
I find those two paragraphs to be contradictory. Why is a TAS submission message allowed to contain off-topic political messages that are unrelated to the TAS itself, while the discussion topic is restricted to only discussing the TAS itself and nothing else? Why doesn't the same rule apply to both, given that both are related to the exact same thing (ie. a TAS that has just been submitted)?
The major problem in allowing political messages to be expressed in such text is that political messages, especially of the modern nature, tend to be very provocative, divisive and controversial, and they tend to rile people up, and derail the conversation. Regardless of what opinion you may have or which side (or no side) you may be, I don't think it's constructive to allow people to be annoyed and riled up like that, inducing them to derail the conversation. It's also not very constructive to allow such provocative statements to be made but then, inconsistently (and slightly hypocritically) ban people from responding to it, giving the original statement special status exempt from criticism or commentary in the same context where it was made.
There's nothing wrong in the site being a political arbiter, in the sense of "political topics are not allowed at all in submissions, neither the submission text itself nor in the submission discussion thread". All political discussion being forbidden is a common practice at many forums, regardless of what side the political discussion may be. (And no, there is no need to start nitpicking about what is and isn't "political". The same kind of common sense and judgment can be used as when determining whether something is offensive, discriminatory, etc.)
Off-topic remarks in general might not be something to ban from submission texts, but I'm all for categorically banning political statements of any kind from them. The reason is clear: They are provocative and divisive, and they cause animosity, disagreement and bickering, they only make people angry, and they derail the conversation about the subject in question.
There are literally thousands and thousands of political online forums out there. There is no need to make this into one. We don't need yet another one of them. If you want to discuss politics, choose one of those.
The fact that this thread was required to made and that there are 3 pages worth of discussion is clear evidence that comments irrelevant to a movie should not be allowed in a submission.
There is an offtopic board specifically made for blogs and soapboxes. That stuff should stay there.
