mklip2001
He/Him
Editor
Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
Location: Georgia, USA
fcxiaopengyou: That would be great! I'd love to see it if you post some progress here. I don't know if you could get some resources from Aglar or Nitrogenesis at this point, since their last posts here were 5 years ago.
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
Expert player (3646)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Well, I think it's safe to say that I'll never complete this run, so here's some resources I dug up from my PM box. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/640070465/Chip%20%27n%20Dale%20Rescue%20Rangers%20%28U%29%202playertestrun.fm2 - almost completed test run http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/221249344/Chip%20%27n%20Dale%20Rescue%20Rangers%20%28U%29%20TASL1.fm2 - zone 0 better optimized The most important RAM addresses: 68 - chip's x pos 470 - chip's x-sub pos 510 - chip's y pos 460 - chip's y-sub pos 69 - dale's x pos 471 - dale's x-sub pos 511 - dale's y pos 461 - dale's y-sub pos To execute the zip glitch one player must throw the other one frame before hitting the ground, then wait for 2 frames and then jump into him. What y-pixel you need to be at when throwing the other player depends all on the characters' y-subpixel values. In order to get the zip to work while throwing from the same y-pixel as the platform you're about to land on you should aim to have the carried character's y-subpixel value to be as low as possible (when being carried) and the other one's as high as possible (at the frame before you jump into the other one). Just think about that the highest subpixel for this character is 170 since the game checks for what the next value would be which is 170 + 85 = 255, for the carried character this isn't the case though and thus the lowest subpixel value is 0 instead of 171. It doesn't need to be perfect though, I don't know where the exact line is between it working or not but the margin is at least 100 subpixels combined, meaning if you can get the subpixel value 50 with the carried and 120 with the other it should still work. If the subpixels are arranged differently you must either throw the other character from 1 or 2 pixels above the ground (depending on how the subpixels are set). Apparently the screen scrolls slower if Dale is first of the characters while zipping.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
fcxiaopengyou
He/Him
Experienced player (559)
Joined: 7/25/2015
Posts: 123
Location: Republic of China
Thanks very much, I will try my best。
Working on: [NES] Downtown Special - Kunio-kun no Jidaigeki Dayo Zenin Shuugou! (J) ''2 players 100%'' Plan: [SNES] Kenyuu Densetsu Yaiba (Japan) _________________ My English is pour. 
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
The above tricks are for Chip'n'Dale 1, not 2.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
fcxiaopengyou
He/Him
Experienced player (559)
Joined: 7/25/2015
Posts: 123
Location: Republic of China
Yeah, I know, so I want finsh 2, then try to 1 ^_^
Working on: [NES] Downtown Special - Kunio-kun no Jidaigeki Dayo Zenin Shuugou! (J) ''2 players 100%'' Plan: [SNES] Kenyuu Densetsu Yaiba (Japan) _________________ My English is pour. 
Arcree2
He/Him
Player (148)
Joined: 8/30/2016
Posts: 138
Location: France
Hey ! Anyone know why the wr rta sum of best segments is 9:52 and the tas is 9:54 ? I want to try to improve the tas but I don't know if this is already very well optimized... As what I see, WR and TAS doesn't use the same player (Dale for TAS and Chip for WR) so I think Dale is slower but why the tas is with dale if he is slower ? Thanks
Projects: Genesis Crack Down 1 Player - Work In Progress
Expert player (3646)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
Arcree2 wrote:
Anyone know why the wr rta sum of best segments is 9:52 and the tas is 9:54 ?
The TAS is about 9:32 using their RTA timing.
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Arcree2
He/Him
Player (148)
Joined: 8/30/2016
Posts: 138
Location: France
Oh seriously ? The start is very fast (2 or 3 seconds) Is the difference at the end ? Thanks for the answer
Projects: Genesis Crack Down 1 Player - Work In Progress
XTREMAL93
He/Him
Active player (446)
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 587
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
Link to video Trick in Chip & Dale 1. Super throw like in CaD 2 youtube cut some frames. in fact, ball flies with zigzags and you can hear sound.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Yeah but does it have the same effect as in CaD2?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
XTREMAL93
He/Him
Active player (446)
Joined: 1/6/2012
Posts: 587
Location: Azerbaijan, Baku
idk. Someone should check it
Player (172)
Joined: 7/1/2016
Posts: 263
It's known trick. That trow does same amount of damage as normal trow
Player (172)
Joined: 7/1/2016
Posts: 263
Speaking of well known tricks https://youtu.be/EtxfTsr7f0Q?t=417 That happens because when you hold one of chipmunks - that chipmunk can't take damage from anything EXCEPT that boss. So after holded chipmunk takes damage - game gets confused and you can HIDE in that chipmunk by pressing down LUL And game gets confused even more LUL
fcxiaopengyou
He/Him
Experienced player (559)
Joined: 7/25/2015
Posts: 123
Location: Republic of China
This operation has been found before, although there are special attack screen and special sound, but the attack did not improve. By the way, CaD2 is almost complete after more than three years.
Working on: [NES] Downtown Special - Kunio-kun no Jidaigeki Dayo Zenin Shuugou! (J) ''2 players 100%'' Plan: [SNES] Kenyuu Densetsu Yaiba (Japan) _________________ My English is pour. 
Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 14
Greetings, TAS friends! I would like to share some information that I believe would help obsolete the current TAS and a wacky glitch that could produce something someday. 1) If this was not already known you can drop down through the floor when zipping and continue zipping. Furthermore if there are subpixel problems in setting up a zip that would make it impossible (doubtful for a TAS) you can throw a box into your partner and jump into his sprite to initiate a zip. 2) There are two places where I believe zipping to be faster than the current TAS - The end of the first screen in G has a long straightaway after two metal blocks and I have tested it the final gator will jump over you while zipping. I would recommend carrying close to that point for lag reduction rather than killing all the enemies. Also there is a section in the 2nd screen of I that comes just after Zipper that is a similar distance and is unobstructed. 3) This glitch has been known since at least 2013 by speedrunners but if you are carrying your partner and jump into the Robot boss of stage D you trigger a major glitch where physics/sprites become messed up and you can even change the sprites with certain inputs. I am hoping this would lead to being able to manipulate otherwise unchangeable RAM values and trigger ACE or a wrong warp to another bonus stage after killing the boss. A long shot but worth investigating. Here are some videos to help show what I am talking about. These are for demonstration purposes and are not intended to be the actual TAS strats. https://twitter.com/junkyard_dave/status/1163633150641111041 https://twitter.com/junkyard_dave/status/1163779741284855808 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtxfTsr7f0Q&feature=youtu.be&t=416
Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 14
MAJOR UPDATE: This strat obsoletes the current TAS by over 2 seconds. Probably more since you can likely find a way to trigger the zip like in the current TAS, which is much faster than this box throw setup that can be done easily in real time: https://twitter.com/sinister1sda/status/1168773232276541440
Expert player (3646)
Joined: 11/9/2007
Posts: 375
Location: Varberg, Sweden
sinister1 wrote:
MAJOR UPDATE: This strat obsoletes the current TAS by over 2 seconds. Probably more since you can likely find a way to trigger the zip like in the current TAS, which is much faster than this box throw setup that can be done easily in real time: https://twitter.com/sinister1sda/status/1168773232276541440
Nice to see such crazy strats are making it's way into the spectacular world of RTA! Regarding the TAS though, there are faster ways to make it past that (and every other) area. I made a post about it way back in this thread, with some movefiles. But I suppose not many people check those nowadays, so here a youtube link to the fastest completetion of the first level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSdsym76GKA&feature=youtu.be
feos wrote:
Only Aglar can improve this now.
Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 14
Aglar wrote:
sinister1 wrote:
MAJOR UPDATE: This strat obsoletes the current TAS by over 2 seconds. Probably more since you can likely find a way to trigger the zip like in the current TAS, which is much faster than this box throw setup that can be done easily in real time: https://twitter.com/sinister1sda/status/1168773232276541440
Nice to see such crazy strats are making it's way into the spectacular world of RTA! Regarding the TAS though, there are faster ways to make it past that (and every other) area. I made a post about it way back in this thread, with some movefiles. But I suppose not many people check those nowadays, so here a youtube link to the fastest completetion of the first level: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSdsym76GKA&feature=youtu.be
Thanks for sharing this, Aglar! I had missed it somehow and I have lots of questions now, haha. 1) Regarding the extending of zips to different levels. I was only able to replicate this in real time when falling to a lower level over a gap (e.g. right after Zipper). I was wondering how you can jump and get to higher levels while zipping? Is this something that could be done in real time? 2) It appears that you trigger one zip just as Chip is coming out of balloon. How is that done? 3) In our real time testing we have struggled to identify what exact parameters are required for a successful zip (0 hits or 1 hit) in stage 0 Zipper section but it seems that Chip must be the one to both get Zipper and hit Dale with the box for it to work. Any insight into why this would be the case? Do you think that other ways are possible without the floor electricity/enemies getting 3 hits in during the zip? For reference here is our current strat in real time: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/482181168
Memory
She/Her
Site Admin, Skilled player (1558)
Joined: 3/20/2014
Posts: 1767
Location: Dumpster
I'm interested in tackling rescue rangers 1, fcxiaopengyou, are you still planning on working on the game?
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 14
Memory wrote:
I'm interested in tackling rescue rangers 1, fcxiaopengyou, are you still planning on working on the game?
Please contact me if you work on this game. I have several improvements to the last TAS WIP that Aglar shared.
Joined: 8/4/2009
Posts: 14
Can anyone explain why horizontal screen scrolling can be impacted in 2 player mode by how one chipmunk throws the other? Context: In some screens you need to scroll the screen to a certain point horizontally before you can start to ascend vertically and scroll the screen upward (e.g. Zone D screen 3). If you throw your partner normally by pressing B after the first enemy there is never any problem. BUT. If you use the four frames faster method of throwing diagonally (up + right + B) it will sometimes cause abnormal horizontal scrolling that requires you to move much further right before you can scroll vertically. This is inconsistent and only happens around half the time. Is there a way to make the screen scrolling consistent while still using the faster throw? Video for route example of using normal throw - https://youtu.be/WEiSc-yq0q8?t=196
fcxiaopengyou
He/Him
Experienced player (559)
Joined: 7/25/2015
Posts: 123
Location: Republic of China
Memory wrote:
I'm interested in tackling rescue rangers 1, fcxiaopengyou, are you still planning on working on the game?
Sorry, I just saw this message today. Life is in a mess and the plan has stopped
Working on: [NES] Downtown Special - Kunio-kun no Jidaigeki Dayo Zenin Shuugou! (J) ''2 players 100%'' Plan: [SNES] Kenyuu Densetsu Yaiba (Japan) _________________ My English is pour. 
Joined: 10/8/2023
Posts: 4
Location: Edmonton
Hey everyone. First, sinister redirected me here, and this is my absolute first post on this website despite being aware of it for years. Sorry if I'm necroposting or if it's in the wrong spot, as I genuinely don't know. tl;dr: I've speedrun stuff since around late 2016 - early 2017 and in that time, learned how to TAS, and despite creating a few full TASes (for Batman, and two games called Dreamworld Pogie and Ralph 4) never submitted anything to TASVideos since I've always created more "human theory" or RTA things. I never really had an interest in TASing to break a game like you folks do. Still, there's been some excellent TASers that tried to bridge that gap (Dreamyao for instance) when it came to TAS only -> RTA strats. I have a 9:57 in Batman, and he joined the Batman Discord and offered all of us Batman runners possible RTA strats that weren't known, or things that were "likely RTA" that could be potential time saves. So, with that in mind, I offer the Chip & Dale TASers maybe two things that weren't(?) known: The first is box ascension: https://twitter.com/junkyard_dave/status/1710927985409503655 Basically, the chipmunks can gain height if they jump and throw boxes at each other. I TASed out a logical section this could be used in a TAS (F2) and you can ascend very quickly on the vertical scroll. I'm not 100% sure, but each chipmunk might have to have the same subpixel (didn't test if this was true - but sometimes ascending would just fail on me with proper inputs) but, if that isn't true, likely what is true is lag frames. There was 5-6 lag frames in F2 that I had to rework basically the inputs around, which immediately makes this strat likely non-RTA. Still, for real TASers, this I feel is a legitimate time save and could be used in F2, as above, possibly D (depending how the invisible wall interacts in D3), Zone 0 climbs and possibly the A climb with some extreme wizardry. I also don't know as I didn't TAS the inputs more than once, but I made each chipmunk I believe move for 5 frames, fall for 3 and grab each box for 2 (and jump prior to the entrance for the same amount of frames). I never bothered to understand how subpixels worked in this game, as RTA, it changes nothing you can do strat-wise. The other was from 2019: https://twitter.com/junkyard_dave/status/1173469549171052544 You can delay activating Zipper by triggering the box with a dead chipmunk on a balloon, which, can in theory, allow you to bring Zipper between screen transitions. Zipper in the game is very scarce and only in a few stages, and my end goal was to see if bringing Zipper into I would automatically kill the caterpillar boss (sadly, doesn't seem so - but maybe someone else can toy with that and make it a reality.) One cool thing that I don't know if it's true or useful in a real TAS, is if you do this and carry the invincibility over between screens (at least in the caterpillar screen, didn't test others) is the invincibility actually stays permanent, but only for that one screen. There's too much of a gap between Zone 0 zipper and the screen transition above to probably carry him over to exploit that, but maybe a new caterpillar kill could be created that exploits having invincibility in that boss fight. Anyway, hope this helps out REAL TASers. :D Thanks for all the work you guys do! I've definitely used many TAS videos as a reference over the years from this website and know firsthand how much goes into it.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
Awesome finds!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.