This is a speed oriented TAS for MK3.

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: <Put the emulator name and version here>
  • Complete single-player mode in Very Hard difficulty, Master tower.
  • Do it in fastest time possible.
  • Removes sound to minimize loading and victory fanfares.

Comments

I was fiddling with the mk3 shortest round combo, which is a Kabal infinite, but I found it too finicky to execute in most characters. I decided to train my TASing skill in mk3 instead by optimizing the RTA strategies in TAS settings. What I found out however was that the RTA strategy could actually be faster than the combo I saw, but only if I could manipulate the enemies to eat all my punches instead with the infamous HPT.

What is the High Punch Trick?

Punches in the classic mk series can be chained a few times to combo. In mk3, you can combo four standing punches of any kind and the game will prevent you from punching further by making the opponent stumble into a pushback animation. If the fourth punch didn't combo, there would be no pushback. RTA runners abuse this by delaying their punches in a very specific pattern to let enemies out of hitstun for a very brief moment and punch the enemy when it's just trying to fight back. However, some enemies have very finnicky hitboxes which make this strategy inconsistent for RTA. In TAS settings, I discovered they just need to be manipulated into having only 1 frame of recovery out of hitstun in order to use the HPT. Some enemies would still be able to get out, but because the CPU reads inputs, they can actually be manipulated by doing commands inside the attacks, even if those commands do NOT RESULT IN ANY ACTIONS!
High Punch is preferable to Low Punch as it causes more damage, but in a few cases a LP could be thrown there just to keep the still in the manipulated pattern.
Based on Innarik's MK3 WR, it looks like you can't do it in RTA against Sindel, Nightwolf, Sub-Zero, Stryker and Liu Kang. I believe Kano too, even though in RTA they could use LP instead for him.
 

How many moves does it take to kill someone in mk3?

I don't have damage values but it takes:
21 LP in mk3, 16 HP (one of them could be changed into a LP and would still be),7 High Kicks,8 Low Kicks ,7 Jump Kicks , 6 Uppercuts
Conclusion: best strategy would be to punch as much as you can and do a big ender to finish the round. The first round would ideally always be finished with uppercuts, but uppercuts don't combo at all so it's up to RNG to save the day in order to use this strategy. HKs and autocombos are the next best thing, and they combo from the pushback of four punches. In ROUND1, it's just doing the best finisher possible, but in ROUND2, I tested if i could activate the WIN message faster by which moves, and the main priority seems to kill the enemy initially faster but with less hitstun possible. Seems weird because the juggles actually allow the WIN message to come earlier while hitstun doesn't. Low hitstun moves and sweeps were also the possibilities for getting the WIN message earlier after the FINISH HIM message.
Uppercuts have faster recovery when used as ROUND2 finishers as well.

Character choice

Based on RTA's choice, I figured I might need some help from CYRAX special moves for some enemy, but I never had anything very specific only he could do the whole run.

Shao Kahn and Motaro

The reason these guys have their own section is simple. All enemies were manipulated into eating basic moves left and right, but these guys have a horrible AI and a different body type. It's possible another character has an edge against them, but i couldn't find any faster fight in TAS or RTA settings.Motaro has protection against autocombos so single hits are better, but he won't eat many of those without losing time, so I figured I would damage him as a form of manipulation.
Shao Kahn is very hard as well because his moves are insanely faster, so a lot of empty commands are used to manipulate him into eating all the JKs. I managed to do some "reground" autocombos but I believe they're not real combos just a glitch in the Combo Counter.

IMPROVEMENTS I BELIEVE IN

Shao Kahn and Motaro

Another character may have better combo routes for them.

Wouldn't another character improve the normal fights as well?

I do not believe so. The special moves in MK3 cause a boatload of hitstun and nothing I tested was a better finisher than normal moves. They just push the enemies further and further,delaying the Win message.

RNG would help boss fights and a few more normal fights in the run as well.

Time wasted by choosing this character in selection.

Other comments

Screenshot: 9596, 12263 anything with the capoeira pose by Cyrax
Thank you for reading, TASvideos for the amazing community and MK SPEEDRUN Discord for providing the most valuable input and support.

feos: We don't put "any%" in branch labels,

feos: Claiming for judging.
feos: Replacing the file with a trimmed version.
feos: Much faster than the human record, no obvious (or even known for sure?) improvements in main gameplay, accepting.
fsvgm777: Processing.


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15577
Location: 127.0.0.1
This topic is for the purpose of discussing #7347: KusogeMan's SNES Mortal Kombat 3 in 05:13.90
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1918)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
First of all good job, this speedrun seems to be very good despite the lack of combos. I only played casually this game on SNES. Without any expert knowledge on this game, I think there should be some more preferable characters as you also mention it. 1. Fighting strategy I know that the CPU will try to counter your inputs when you are about to pull something, but I wonder if there's any character with short and fast enough movement or action that's able to improve the following fight parts by manipulating the end of the fight with a combo. Assuming that the death animation of the enemy and the players animation not affecting the time of finishing a round, because you use uppercut finishes usually. - Character distance between Player spamming HP while Enemy still coming, notice Motaro fights difference while Kabal fights were same - Ending with Combo of an Uppercut with a character Skill - Motaro fight 1, 2 and Shao Khan 1, 2- different character to try The strategies look very solid, I just think that fights might be manipulated to end with a combo. Sorry for bothering if you already tried these or just simply the assumptions are wrong. 2. Any% goal I wonder if there's any trick or strategy to implement from https://tasvideos.org/4518S TAS
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
Autocombos are slower when compared to uppercuts, because the damage comes in parts, Cyrax autocombo is actually a 30% damage Combo by itself. It was the original strategy when i started TASing, but I gave up on it when the enemies seemed to be way more cooperative with the uppercuts. HK can also be faster because they're big damage all in one hit. "Assuming that the death animation of the enemy and the players animation not affecting the time of finishing a round, because you use uppercut finishes usually." hitstun or pushback from a HK makes the finish him message come later, i'm not sure which one it is but it happens.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Editor, Player (69)
Joined: 6/22/2005
Posts: 1050
Full disclosure: I have not played the game myself. I found the run rather repetitive. There were punches that looked sloppy because they did not hit the opponent. Examples include the Kano, Sektor, and Sheeva fights. I assume that those were done in order to manipulate the opponent. The lack of sound did not help. I think that playarounds with a variety of moves are better suited for these types of games that have an optimal strategy that is so repetitive. Voting Meh since the run was relatively short, but I probably would have voted No if it were longer. By the way, why is the time on the site about twice the time you wrote on your encode?
Current Projects: TAS: Wizards & Warriors III.
BigBoct
He/Him
Editor, Former player
Joined: 8/9/2007
Posts: 1692
Location: Tiffin/Republic, OH
Dacicus wrote:
By the way, why is the time on the site about twice the time you wrote on your encode?
Most likely the input file includes the credits. Good speed record here, probably publishable as a Standard movie. I do wonder, however, could you quickly take a hit in each round to skip the Flawless Victory jingle?
Previous Name: boct1584
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I'd need very low hitstun to make flawless faster, something like a singular LP blocked, and then immediately have the enemy's guard open. I calculated 26 frames of advantage only.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
MESHUGGAH
Other
Skilled player (1918)
Joined: 11/14/2009
Posts: 1353
Location: 𝔐𝔞𝔤𝑦𝔞𝔯
I was in the mood to make a simple test movie up to 1st fight 1st round. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637821744515140397 My UserFile goes to the character select screen 1436. Note that I didn't turned off music and sound, it would be 1240. This TAS by KusogeMan reaches character select screen at 1279 Later I chose Shang Tsung just for simply testing stuffs. Menu / non-gameplay navigation: - A single button press can lead to 1 frame loss because of the way input is processed - At least 1 screen requires multiple S buttons to be fastest for fading out - On subsequent screens (for example beginning screens before the Start Options screen) can be "early input"-ed. edit: Early Input (not copyrighted/trademarked) means the ability to press a button before a series of lag frames which will be processed after the lag frames. - Some inputs can be combined like R+S at selecting difficulty Enemy manipulation: - The easiest way to manipulate before a fight is pressing buttons right before the first button that has immediate action when pressed. - Pressing U/D/L/R and pressing A/B/X/S/s and their combination should lead to all possible first action from enemy - If this is not enough, you can also press buttons earlier and anytime during the fight. Pressing the buttons without delivering the action also helps in changing enemy action.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
Link to video I posted on the snes forum but i'll post here for the people who had some questions about character choice, Kung Lao was my prime suspect because he can infinite combo the normal characters, but not the bosses..
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
EZGames69
He/They
Publisher, Reviewer, Expert player (4460)
Joined: 5/29/2017
Posts: 2761
I’m not sure I like the idea of disabling sound and music just to speed up the game. It really makes it difficult to watch. Voting meh.
[14:15] <feos> WinDOES what DOSn't 12:33:44 PM <Mothrayas> "I got an oof with my game!" Mothrayas Today at 12:22: <Colin> thank you for supporting noble causes such as my feet MemoryTAS Today at 11:55 AM: you wouldn't know beauty if it slapped you in the face with a giant fish [Today at 4:51 PM] Mothrayas: although if you like your own tweets that's the online equivalent of sniffing your own farts and probably tells a lot about you as a person MemoryTAS Today at 7:01 PM: But I exert big staff energy honestly lol Samsara Today at 1:20 PM: wouldn't ACE in a real life TAS just stand for Actually Cease Existing
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Ah yes, a fighting game TAS in the spirit of Spikestuff's work on the Tekken games. It's TASing in its purest form, where everything is sacrificed in the name of speed. This was less entertaining to watch than other speed-oriented fighting game TASes I have seen, as the fastest way to win consists mostly of spamming regular attacks, instead of using one very strong move or a mechanic like ring outs. It was interesting to see how a TAS can solve a game that doesn't have an obvious abuseable mechanic like Tekken does, but I can't give this more than a "meh".
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I do have a question myself: should i be able to improve the run's gameplay but while playing with sounds, would it be possible for it to obsolete the soundless run? Will you guys be able to just count somehow the lag from the sounds enabled? I'll personally keep on playing and TASing MK games, but I was wondering if next attempts should be soundless or not.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Former player
Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
KusogeMan wrote:
I do have a question myself: should i be able to improve the run's gameplay but while playing with sounds, would it be possible for it to obsolete the soundless run? Will you guys be able to just count somehow the lag from the sounds enabled? I'll personally keep on playing and TASing MK games, but I was wondering if next attempts should be soundless or not.
Just go as fast as possible for these runs. You will never get a majority of positive votes with a speed-oriented fighting game TAS, so might as well go for every possible frame there is.
Current project: Gex 3 any% Paused: Gex 64 any% There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
KusogeMan wrote:
I do have a question myself: should i be able to improve the run's gameplay but while playing with sounds, would it be possible for it to obsolete the soundless run? Will you guys be able to just count somehow the lag from the sounds enabled? I'll personally keep on playing and TASing MK games, but I was wondering if next attempts should be soundless or not.
This may be non-trivial to figure out. If audio causes lag and moves cause lag, with and without audio different moves may end up being optimal, which will make them incomparable directly.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
ok, I'll stay soundless then, it's not very entertaining anyway lol.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
how do i substitute the moviefile? for this one https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637827903987648498
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15577
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [4608] SNES Mortal Kombat 3 by KusogeMan in 05:13.90