That's odd. Your process seems fine to me. One thought is that for me, I do your steps 5 and 6 first. Otherwise, I notice that you live in Holland, perhaps the bug was fixed in the European version of the game?
About the run, Primo said (in a PM) that he's still working on luck-manipulating in the first gym. Apparently he doesn't have much spare time lately :(
Here's an odd thing: If you go into areas that shouldn't be programmed (I.E. massive mountains) while walking through walls sometimes, instead of a game crash, you get a replica of a certain area except with no trainers, and doors can't be entered. The best example involves flying to Pewter and holding right. You'll see infinite Pewter Cities, but you can't enter anything.
About the run, Primo said (in a PM) that he's still working on luck-manipulating in the first gym. Apparently he doesn't have much spare time lately :(
I'm currently in my exam period, so this is likely to remain the case for the next few weeks. Over the summer months, I should have a lot of time though.
Thomaz,
I would ask you to post a vbm of your attempt, but it sounds like you're trying this on an actual GameBoy.
As far as I know, the glitch is not affected by the character's name, it does work on all of red/blue/yellow, and the cartridge is for USA/Europe so we need not worry about that kind of a version difference. What has me slightly worried now is wondering whether this bug might only work in an emulator. I do not have my GameBoy with me, so I hope someone else here can quickly show there's nothing to worry about.
From your detailed steps, the only thing I could imagine going wrong would be jumping the fence one step too early. Can you confirm that the 'ding-dong!' occurs when your character is in mid-air (judged by where he is relative to his shadow), he appears in mid-air in his first moment back int the Safari zone entrance before dropping to the ground, and that he can walk through walls inside that room (before fainting)?
If the answer to all three of those is yes, at least you have managed to walk through some walls, then we can try to figure out what exactly is making you lose that capability after fainting. If the answer to one or all of those is no, I suspect you are jumping the fence a step too early.
Also, how exactly do you perform the Snorlax skip?
I'm pretty confident with the description I wrote up earlier in this thread. I think some possible mistakes you could make would be walking through regions such as Cerulean or Saffron to cause something other than Snorlax to disappear, or forgetting to visit Snorlax before you initiate the sequence.
Don't worry, I've done it on console. In fact, the part about walking through walls in the Safari building (and otherwise being stuck) was discovered entirely by accident on my GB.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Yeah, I'm using the original game.
I'm gonna have to test the mid-air ding-dong because I recall it not happening. But I'm sure that I get ding-donged (lol) right when I land after jumping from the ledge.
And I've managed to figure out the Snorlax skip thanks to samthedigital. I forgot to visit Snorlax before attempting it, it finally works now! =D
Edit: okay, I tested it.
This is what I do exactly:
1. I start in the Safari Zone with Mew at 39 HP and Poisoned. Leaving the SZ takes 4 steps. 496 steps left.
2. I fly to Fuchsia (I flew to Viridian in my other attempts).
3. I start biking like a mad man and when Mew has exactly 1 HP, I give it 4 Potions. 344 steps left.
4. When Mew reaches 1 HP again, I give it 1 Potion. 24 steps left.
5. I count the steps and on the 499th step, I jump over the ledge.
6. I (indeed) get ding-donged in mid-air and I'm teleported back to the SZ.
7. I walk around until Mew faints and I'm teleported to Viridian City.
I seriously wonder what I'm doing wrong. =/
Could you confirm the third condition, that your character can walk through walls inside [the Safari Zone entrance] before fainting?
As I said, if the answer to all three is yes, at least you have managed to walk through some walls, so now we can try to figure out what exactly is making you lose that capability after fainting. Two known ways of losing walk-through-walls status (which you do not want to do) are walking through any doorway/exit and talking to a character that forces movement.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Nope, I cannot walk through walls in the Safari Zone entrance. I just walk in circles right below the right guard until Mew faints. I'm playing the game on Red on the emulator now btw (and having fun with savestates. XD), about to glitch Mew.
My guess is that the bug has been fixed in the European version. I'll look for the European ROM to see if I can confirm this.
BTW, is the version you're using in Dutch or English?
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
English of course, I don't think there's a Dutch version. =P
Edit: darn it. Just got the glitch to work on the emulator. >_< Certainly looks different. I don't get ding-donged in mid-air at all on the GB.
lol, this glitch is cool, I skipped Silph & Co, Earth badge, Surf, Strength, Poke Flute etc. In the League right now. I want the NTSC version! ;__________________;
Odd. You mentioned you don't get "ding-donged" in midair, which indicates parts of the programming are different in the (E) version.
If you want the NTSC version, get it off the American Ebay website (ebay.com)
As far as I can tell, both of you must have totally missed what I said earlier.
the cartridge is for USA/Europe so we need not worry about that kind of a version difference.
Furthermore, Thomaz you're a bit inconsistent on whether and when the first two conditions were satisfied in your tests.
(referring to tests on GB) Thomaz wrote:
I (indeed) get ding-donged in mid-air. [...] I seriously wonder what I'm doing wrong. =/
then later, Thomaz wrote:
Just got the glitch to work on the emulator. >_< Certainly looks different. I don't get ding-donged in mid-air at all on the GB.
So which is it? I have good reason to suspect that above I've already correctedly guessed the reason your earlier tests failed.
5. I count the steps and on the 499th step, I jump over the ledge.
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
...
God, I can be such a noob sometime. >_>
Yes, it worked. I just got it to work in my Blue version.
Nevermind me guys. =(
I was pretty sure I jumped on the correct step. I guess I did it correct on the emulator (and today with Yellow) for the first time. Speedrun of Yellow coming up on YouTube. ^_~
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Yeah, unassisted. But it won't be accepted because of the walk-through-walls glitch, hence why I upload it on YouTube.
And darn, there's one thing blocking me from skipping Cut altogether. >_<
Joined: 5/9/2007
Posts: 93
Location: The Netherlands
Darn, I was play-testing with my French Yellow for some tricks and stuff and I completely forgot that the glitch city glitch wears off when entering a building (I assume that that is the reason). I visited the Old Mansion (and Escape Roped out) after leaving the Safari Zone and never got called back. ;(
I was hoping I could do the Surf to Cinnabar, Secret Key and Blaine my second WtW cycle (Erika and Koga where the first + Ice Beam and an Max Ether). Finished Yellow with a horrible time of 1:47 using Mew and I skipped Surf, Strength, Poke Tower, Snorlax, Silph & Co, Gamecorner and the Earth Badge.
Edit: scratch that, it's the Escape Rope that resets it, leaving the Old Mansion via the other route works fine (although it doesn't give me enough steps for Blaine. ;_; )
It's been a while, but I finally have enough free time to TAS again. I present you with the current WIP with progress through Pewter Gym, now 338 frames (5.63s) faster than the currently published run at this point. I was 164 frames ahead before the gym, so this means I picked up an additional 174 frames, 23 frames from better manipulation on the Geodude, and 151 frames from a much better strategy against the Onix.
One thing I'm still unsure about is the second Snorlax skip. Ideally, the trigger trainer would be one that needs to be defeated anyway. I can't use Erika or St. Surge, because both require using Cut to get to, and the start button is disabled. I don't see any other good candidates either. Misty can't be used because Cut is required to get the the secret house where you get Fly (and the Cascadebadge is required to use Fly), and all of the other trainers between Vermillion and Celedon have already been fought. I may end up having to fight an unnecessary trainer.
I'm pretty sure the Cascadebadge gave you the ability to Cut and Thunderbadge (or w/e Lt. Surge's badge is) gave you ability to Fly. Does that change anything?
In that case might it be worth holding off on getting mew untill the second skip and using the uncessary trainer to generate the mew? Or are there no suitable trainers near by for that?
I'm pretty sure the Cascadebadge gave you the ability to Cut and Thunderbadge (or w/e Lt. Surge's badge is) gave you ability to Fly. Does that change anything?
Err, I meant Cut, not Fly. But it wouldn't change anything, because I need both Cut and Fly to perform the second Snorlax skip.
TheRandomPie_IV wrote:
In that case might it be worth holding off on getting mew untill the second skip and using the uncessary trainer to generate the mew? Or are there no suitable trainers near by for that?
This gave me a good idea. Unfortunately, what you suggest won't work, because I will have had to have Mew before then to use Fly. However, just because I have Mew, it doesn't mean I need to use her as the main battler. At this point, Gyarados is plenty strong enough to take care of the trainers along routes 8 and 12. Attack PP won't be a problem either, as we've just healed in Vermillion for the Snorlax skip. Because his battle cry is significantly shorter than Mew's, this should save a good bit of time.
Looks excellent. I'm surprised at an improvement this big so early on. I'm not a big fan of the border, but I suppose that's at the author's discretion. I can't wait until the bugs start coming.
On another note, I'm not entirely sure you read my post about route just after Pewter, so I'll quote it here.
Chamale wrote:
It is in fact faster to fight the trainer with Rattata and Nidoran, then backtrack to the outskirts of Pewter, and then advance again. Here's an unoptimized test run, which is at least 2.5 seconds faster despite the fact that Charmander takes a hit from Nidoran.
Rattata can be OHKO'd with Ember, but Nidoran has health of 1E and max damage with Ember is just 1C.
I need both Cut and Fly to perform the second Snorlax skip.
Technically, you don't need Fly to perform the second skip. It can be done with just biking and Teleport.
Even so, I would expect the time saved by getting Fly early would outweigh the time spent fighting one extra trainer.
Updated WIP with progress through Mt. Moon, now 937 frames (15.62s) faster than the currently published run at this point. The amazing part is, that as this point the runs are nearly identical, which leads me to believe that even without any major route changes, the current run could be improved by as much as 30 seconds.
On Route 3, you may notice that I use a critical hit against the Youngster's Ekans which I didn't in the previous run. This is not a mistake. In SGB mode, whenever the opponents health bar changes color (in this case, from green to yellow), it takes 15 frames. A critical hit, on the otherhand, takes 20. However, this Ekans has 30 hit points, and a max normal hit would only do 15. This would mean needed two max normal hits in a row, which requires a lot of manipulation. In comparison, a weak normal hit (so that the health bar doesn't change color), and a weak critical takes approximately zero manipulation. Long story short, I saved 3 frames over the fastest double max combo I found, and 7 frames over the previous run.
Chamale wrote:
It is in fact faster to fight the trainer with Rattata and Nidoran, then backtrack to the outskirts of Pewter, and then advance again. Here's an unoptimized test run, which is at least 2.5 seconds faster despite the fact that Charmander takes a hit from Nidoran.
This was a big time saver, but not in the way you think. By my tests, this route is in fact 62 frames slower. The comparison you made wasn't quite valid; after fighting the trainer with two pokémon, Charmander is still level 14. After the trainer with four pokémon, he is 15, and has sat through the annoyingly long "level up" and "you just learned Leer" jingles, which are approximately 160 frames each; a total of around 5 seconds that you forgot to take into account. However, this saves a lot of time in Mt. Moon. With less experience points, Charmander does not grow to level 16, saving ~160 frames, and does not attempt to evolve, saving another ~380 frames. Of the 600 frames (10s) saved in this section, approximately 480 (8s) can be attributed to this new route.
EDIT: It turns out that switching Dragon Rage to the top was an error. This segment is now 12 frames faster.
