RankoHoshino
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Joined: 8/23/2011
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I do believe the "glitch" occurs with any move that supposedly has "100 accuracy". Moves failing instead of missing is because of how the text is worded in the old games.
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
So I'm guessing that applies to all moves that are documented as "having an accuracy"? That would include everything except Swift, Bide, Transform, and non-targeting moves. Thanks! My second question was that Growl supposedly has "100%" (255/256) accuracy, which means that it should work 99.6% of the time. However, when I've personally seen it used in the opening Rival battle (on a physical Red cartridge), it appears to display "But it failed!" a lot more often than 0.4%. Why?
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Zowayix wrote:
So I'm guessing that applies to all moves that are documented as "having an accuracy"? That would include everything except Swift, Bide, Transform, and non-targeting moves. Thanks! My second question was that Growl supposedly has "100%" (255/256) accuracy, which means that it should work 99.6% of the time. However, when I've personally seen it used in the opening Rival battle (on a physical Red cartridge), it appears to display "But it failed!" a lot more often than 0.4%. Why?
Either the first battle is programmed to behave differently, or you're just lucky.
P.JBoy
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Growl simply fails after the opponent's attack has been minimised (which I believe is after 6 Growls)
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
No, that displays the message "Nothing happened!" in RBY. Look at any R/B TAS to see what I'm talking about: the Rival uses a stat-lowering move several times in a row, and they all fail. I'm pretty sure those are not all 1/256 misses.
Sir_VG
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Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 1913
Location: Floating Tower
Zowayix wrote:
No, that displays the message "Nothing happened!" in RBY. Look at any R/B TAS to see what I'm talking about: the Rival uses a stat-lowering move several times in a row, and they all fail. I'm pretty sure those are not all 1/256 misses.
The probability of an event happening in that game is independent of any other event happening. IOW, if Growl misses once because of the 1/256 chance, then well, missing twice is just 2 1/256 chances happening in a row. Either you're lucky, unlucky, or you're TASing. :P
Taking over the world, one game at a time. Currently TASing: Nothing
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
I just tried it myself, no tools, on a Red ROM. I restarted the first Rival battle over and over, keeping track of each time the opponent used a stat-lowering move (Growl or Tail Whip). Out of a few dozen battles, the move almost always failed at least once per battle, which is something like a 15% or so chance. I'm a little suspicious that the fail rate is only 1/256.
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Zowayix wrote:
I just tried it myself, no tools, on a Red ROM. I restarted the first Rival battle over and over, keeping track of each time the opponent used a stat-lowering move (Growl or Tail Whip). Out of a few dozen battles, the move almost always failed at least once per battle, which is something like a 15% or so chance. I'm a little suspicious that the fail rate is only 1/256.
Maybe the first battle is programmed to be like this. Why don't you try checking out the game's memory or something?
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
Now that I think about it, you're probably right. I've never experienced any high "But it failed!" rates on stat-lowering moves outside of the first battle. EDIT: I hacked a wild Pokemon to know only Tail Whip, while I spammed Harden so my own Defense would never reach -6. Tail Whip never failed through all 30 of Harden's PP. I hacked the rival's starter to know only Tail Whip, while my starter knew Harden and used it 30 times. Tail Whip failed around five times. Confirmed?
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evolving the starters battle metagame!
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
MarbleousDave
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Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
When battling a trainer, there's also something on Pokemon Yellow, that if your Pokemon's HP is low and it gains a level, the level up fanfare won't delay the text. It can be used to skpi the level up fanfare when you win a battle. in Red and Blue, the win fanfare won't play until after the level up fanfare plays. Anyway, this "glitch" were talking about, like if Thunder Wave misses, it displays "It didn't affect <Pokemon>!"
Joined: 1/28/2011
Posts: 14
Now, all my knowledge comes all from experience, since I've run Pokemon games real time. I can totally confirm there are status moves that miss more than 1/256 however. One main reason it's obvious is because it's still present in Gen 2, which removed the 1/256 miss. Growl, Tail Whip, Thunder Wave, all moves I've had miss me yet a damaging attack like Gust will never ever miss. Why? Now that I can't tell you because I have no idea. I can say for sure it's only a trigger to you, your status moves will never miss, but theirs can. Sorry I can't be more helpful, just thought I'd spread what little knowledge I had
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
That's actually really helpful; I did not know that stat-lowering moves like Growl could still fail in Gen II, nor did I know that only the opponent's stat-lowering moves could miss.
Post subject: Pokemon RBY accuracy questions
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
I have a set of very specific questions regarding RBY's "1/256 accuracy glitch". Here's what I'm more or less 100% sure about: - All attacking moves are assigned an accuracy value between 0 and 255. - When an attacking move is used, a random integer from 0 to 255 is generated. If this value is less than the accuracy value, the move hits. - This means that even if an attacking move has the highest possible accuracy, there is still a 1/256 chance for it to miss. Here is what I am not sure about: - Does the above apply to non-attacking moves that target the opponent, such as Confuse Ray? My prediction: Yes, since they have an accuracy value just like all other moves. - Does the 1/256 miss also apply to Swift? I've searched multiple sources everywhere for literally years, and I'm getting conflicting responses everywhere. It basically comes down to the following: Does Swift completely skip the accuracy check, or does it force its own accuracy to the maximum rate before running the check? If the former, Swift is immune to the 1/256 miss; if the latter, Swift can still miss. - The above point applies to Bide, Transform, and X Accuracy-boosted moves as well, as all of them share the "ignores opponent's accuracy/evasion modifiers" property. (As is well known to most real-time speedrunners, X Accuracy's effect in RBYGSC is to give all of the user's moves the same property as Swift. This becomes broken when combined with OHKO moves.) I've attempted tests using hacking, but they don't amount to much. I can hack Swift's accuracy value in the ROM to equal 0 and it will still always hit, but this would be true in both of the cases mentioned in the underlined question above, so this data is useless. Anyone who has deep knowledge about the inner mechanics of RBY, please, please help me with this. It would be greatly appreciated. EDIT: Thanks for merging this post with the other thread; I had honestly forgotten I made it six months ago. x_x
Patashu
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http://tasvideos.org/1671S.html
The run also generates a miss for an attack which was not intended to be able to miss: Lt. Surge's Raichu using Thunderbolt in Vermillion Gym. Previously, I had listed this as luck manipulation, but after examining the disassembled code, I am also convinced that this is a programming error. Each attack has a miss ratio associated with it, which is simply stored as a value between 0 and 255. Attacks which are not intended to be able to miss have a miss ratio of zero. When determining if an attack has failed, a pseudo-random number is choosen, also between 0 and 255, and this value is subtracted from the miss ratio. If there was not a carry (if this value is less than or equal to the miss ratio), the attack will fail. Obviously, the programmer had intended to have these operands switched, and to check for carry instead; in the check for non-physical attacks, this is implemented correctly. This glitch was fixed in later generations of Pokémon.
http://www.smogon.com/rb/articles/differences
The only exception is Swift which does not perform this check and, thus, cannot possibly miss.
Finally, I'm really certain X Accuracy boosted moves in RBY can never miss, because when werster streams RBY he's never worried about the 1/256 miss after using an X Accuracy in a fight, and werster knows his stuff :) EDIT: Ok, now I have a question of my own. I remember reading or hearing about a statment something like the following: In pokemon GSC, all status effect attacks used on your pokemon have an extra random chance of not working, except confuse ray which is still 100% accuracy. What am I thinking of? EDIT: Now that the topics are merged I can see werster talking about it a few posts up. Hey hey!
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
Here is Pokemon Blue (J) "glitchless" in 1:31:06 by aruka. It was posted on Nicovideo about 5 months ago. The video is full of author comments. I have uploaded to Youtube with translation subtitles. 1/4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=_flV070jIEY 2/4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kmyhjnZpNUo 3/4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UNYqO5BWE1A 4/4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=GJRjvtNG5Vw It still uses sound glitches and 1/256 miss. As for sound glitches, please tolerate it because this run is very well-done. (Note: The author knows about TASVideos, as can be seen in his comments in the video. In fact, he references the fact that people at TASVideos in general find the sound glitches annoying.)
Noxxa
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It looks pretty good. I didn't have much of a problem with the sound glitch use.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Joined: 4/27/2013
Posts: 29
Location: MI
FractalFusion wrote:
Here is Pokemon Blue (J) "glitchless" in 1:31:06 by aruka. It was posted on Nicovideo about 5 months ago. The video is full of author comments. I have uploaded to Youtube with translation subtitles.
Holy crap FF, I was looking for something like this. Thanks <3
Post subject: Cheat for Pokemon Blue
Joined: 7/29/2011
Posts: 61
Not sure if this is the right forum or if we're allowed to discuss cheat codes here but does anyone know a cheat code to gain 2x 4x or 8x the exp. from a pokemon battle? It would give the games very interesting replay value. I already searched intensely for this on google so please only tell me what you know. The pokemon runs on this site are amazing and do things beyond my imagination and all this only with input without hacks or cheats! So I figured you guys would be right people to ask for this kind of cheat code since you know how to use cheat codes in the game without even using them!
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Wouldn't it be easier to hack the rom do increase the xp rates instead of using a cheat for every single pokemon in the game?
Joined: 7/29/2011
Posts: 61
How do I hack the rom? Would this take a long time? And I didn't know I would need a new code for every single pokemon, I thought all of them give consistent experience points depending on their level or if they're wild/trainer's pokemon?
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Santiago wrote:
How do I hack the rom? Would this take a long time? And I didn't know I would need a new code for every single pokemon, I thought all of them give consistent experience points depending on their level or if they're wild/trainer's pokemon?
Oh, it seems you are right. :o Anyway, I'm not sure about any cheats for this, but here's something that may help: http://datacrystal.romhacking.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Red_and_Blue:RAM_map
Joined: 7/29/2011
Posts: 61
I don't see a pointer for experience to be gained there, just total experience amount for every pokemon.
Joined: 7/29/2011
Posts: 61
Hi I figured this out, it's done by hex editing part of the rom. Exp is divided by 7 by default and you can change it to 1 to get 7 times more exp. An expert hacker gave me this pointer, I wonder how he figured out which of the 1 million bytes to edit?
Joined: 1/5/2012
Posts: 52
Location: Maridia
One thing I've never heard conclusively confirmed or denied: does the 1/256 miss apply to balls? Does a Master Ball still have that 1/256 chance of failing?