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Posted: 3/7/2007 5:33 AM
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Tragedy
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
PROGRESS UPDATE: I'm doing a bit of research on N64 runs (the two I have in my sig), therefore I have been neglecting this. I will be working on it, still, and if anyone wants to join the project, post or send me a PM and we'll work something out ^.^ Main things I need help on are luck manipulation and memory watch. Until I fully understand those, all I can really do is post a bunch of unoptimized runs ^.^
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche. <small>Working on: not ever coming here again</small>
Posted: 3/10/2007 12:29 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I'm sure whatever work you do on this will be great. ;3
Posted: 4/2/2007 9:27 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Just wonder what's up with this TAS currently. Just checking if there is any progress. ^.^
Posted: 4/3/2007 11:40 PM
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Tragedy
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 87
Location: California, USA
No progress -.- I'm in kind of a weird situation computer-wise, so until I'm allowed to use it again (which may take a while), I can't do any work on anything. And if you're wondering, I'm currently on an alternate, much slower (emulator-wise) computer that I can only use... maybe twice a week? Otherwise, yeah. I'll continue working on it as SOON as I'm allowed to use my actual computer again, which actually should be relatively soon...
If you see me posting, I'm most likely being a douche. <small>Working on: not ever coming here again</small>
Posted: 4/4/2007 9:09 PM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Ah, alrighty then. :3 Just checking. ;3
Posted: 5/14/2007 4:18 PM
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Yoni_Arousement
He/Him
Joined: 5/1/2007
Posts: 294
Location: MD
KennyBoy wrote:
i believe this game was called mother. and i would love to see a speedrun on it^^.
Me too!
I like Doraemon
Posted: 7/30/2007 6:58 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Just checking to see if there has been any kind of progress for this particular TAS. :3
Posted: 7/30/2007 7:00 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Meh, I got bored just trying to play it normally all over again.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 7/30/2007 8:21 PM
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Nitrodon
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
I recently learned (thanks to poik007's videos) that you can use a Rope on Starman Junior, and thus make him unable to move. This should be faster than trying to manipulate a miss every round or letting him use PK Beam. Hopefully, this would also prevent him from selecting an action, in which case SMAAAASH manipulation would be much easier.
Posted: 10/11/2007 9:22 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I am just wondering if anything has been done on a TAS for this game yet. ;3 I'm sure Mother 3 will be TASed before long. Probably before the translation patch is done..
Posted: 10/11/2007 10:02 AM
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Nitrodon
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
I've done absolutely nothing since my last post, except for occasionally thinking to myself. The Rope is clearly the best way to defeat Starman Junior, but I still haven't decided the best way to kill The Fish. Mary's castle has a Rope if I want to take the safe route, or a Boomerang if I want to try pure offense (it's impossible to get both). There also don't seem to be many hacking tools available for this game (and I've been lazy recently), so I don't know of he's vulnerable to Hypnosis, which would also be an option if it works. Regardless of which I choose, I'd also have to decide how many Grouchos will give me exp before the fight. After that, the rest of the run should be easy enough. The dog guarding Duncan's factory is easy enough. For leveling up to 25 (needed to fight the Dragon), Red Snakes have been suggested, but you would actually need to be able to kill them. Some of Loid's items can help with that, but then he'd have to gain exp, and Ninten is the only one who needs it. My plan was to power level with EVE instead. Against the Dragon, throwing a Super Bomb would require reviving Loid and make him reach level 6, but I can't think of any faster strategies. All that's left after that is Giegue, whom I plan to solo with Ninten. He can learn PSI Shield at level 13, so the fight should easy enough to win. Having more characters would probably not make the fight faster, and may even make it slower.
Posted: 10/11/2007 11:32 PM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I don't know why you would purposely kill off any of the characters anyway. The EarthBound TAS is perfect without having to kill anyone off. Besides, the more characters you have to deal damage, the faster fights will be. But, anyway..
Posted: 10/12/2007 12:32 AM
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Nitrodon
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
EarthBound had several necessary fights, and no level requirements. This is not the case in EB0. The necessary fights in this run are: Starman Junior The Fish (not necessary, but likely faster than the alternative) Stray Dog (guarding Duncan's Factory) Power leveling up to level 25 to wake the dragon Dragon Giegue The first two would be fought alone, since I don't have a second character yet. The stray dog should be fought with Loid still alive, since he's needed to destroy the boulder blocking the train track. Power leveling to 25 clearly goes faster if you only level one character. The dragon is vulnerable to instant death (super bomb), so Loid's level is irrelevant there. With two characters against Giegue, you would be able to sing twice as often per turn after the speech, but you'd also heal and see damage messages twice as often per turn (even during the speech), so it likely wouldn't be faster than a solo fight. I am of course open to suggestions to improve or change my strategy.
Posted: 12/22/2007 5:17 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Just checking to see if there are any updates on this as of yet. I'm just depressed lately, so I need to check. xD
Posted: 12/29/2007 6:43 AM
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Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
I am greatly interested in this run, I'd be happy to see more progress on this.
Posted: 2/7/2008 4:19 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
I'm just going to check back here every month or so I think. :3 Just because this topic greatly interests me, plus I'm the one who created it. xD
Posted: 4/22/2008 6:29 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Well. Since there hasn't been any response here in over two months, I'll take it there's nothing going on here. :3
Posted: 4/22/2008 6:46 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Do you have any ideas that could help?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 4/22/2008 9:57 AM
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Kitsune
Joined: 4/29/2005
Posts: 1212
Not really. I'm not a Speed Runner anyway. I doubt that I could even do a TAS of any game if I tried. I'm just checking on progress is all. :3
Posted: 4/22/2008 10:04 AM
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Time/SpaceMage
He/Him
Joined: 7/31/2005
Posts: 128
Location: Virginia
Well, looking through Starmen.net's forums: Game Stats Reusable items Monster groups The most I could find on monster data was at RPGC's shrine, and the only weakness it mentions is sprays. The Hacking List has the hex codes for status ailments, though. I imagine you guys have already checked these places, but this is my way of helping just in case some info's missing.
Working on a mod of an old favorite in my spare time. PM for updates!
Posted: 5/15/2008 5:21 AM
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Nitrodon
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
I've had some thoughts about this run, and I believe I have most of a route. There are still some places that need work before someone tries an actual run with this route, as I explain at the end of this post. 1) Defeat lamp, defeat doll, gain first melody, get basement key and take everything out of the basement. Equip the bat sometime later when you're in the menu anyway. 2) Start a breadcrumb trail near city hall and go rescue Pippi. Use the crumbs to return and get $200 from the mayor, then go get the canary chick and as much bread as you can carry. 3) Return the canary chick to Laura for the second melody, then continue to the zoo. Start a breadcrumb trail near the zoo entrance. 4) Pick up a rope on the way to Starman Junior, and use it on him. Then, SMAAAASH his lights out until he dies. Backtrack to the third melody, then use the breadcrumbs to return to the entrance. Go to Magicant. 5) Save the game as soon as you enter Magicant. Then, without doing anything else, exit Magicant. Ignore the fish. 6) Using a breadcrumb trail, go to Sweet Little's factory and get a bottle rocket. 7) Using a breadcrumb trail, go to Rosemary Manor and get the fourth melody. (Walk through the tunnels to get there.) 8) Recruit Lloyd. Using a breadcrumb trail, go to Duncan's factory and fire the rocket. The stray dog should be easy enough to defeat. 9) Get the sixth melody, then go all the way to EVE without stopping for any plot events. 10) With EVE to kill enemies quickly, kill off Lloyd and power-level Ninten to at least 25 (see notes below). At one point during this segment, make a Star Miner drop a Super Bomb. 11) Get the seventh and eighth melodies and kill off the party. You will respawn in Magicant (where you last saved). 12) Revive Lloyd. Using a breadcrumb trail, go to the dragon and throw a super bomb at him for the fifth melody. 13) Play the eight melodies to Queen Mary. 14) Defeat Giegue. Here are the parts where this route needs some work or thought. The Starman Junior fight might be slow at level 2. Gaining one level on the way there might make it faster. This would need to be tested. Then again, gaining 19 exp isn't exactly something I can do quickly with a weak Ninten, so I doubt gaining a level could be worth it. I don't actually remember how much bread you can hold when it's time to buy some. I may end up needing to buy more sometime. Starmen.net is temporarily down as I write this, so I'm not sure how well this would work. As far as I can tell, Giegue is impossible to solo with a level 25 Ninten. He needs to reach level 29 and learn lifeup beta to stand a chance. Alternatively, I could recruit Ana and manipulate her HP. If I remember my calculations correctly, she can reach 81 HP at level 13. Going from level 1 to 13 takes much less exp than level 25 to 29, but I'm not sure if the time taken to recruit her is worth it. Regardless of anything, I still think a solo battle is the fastest way to defeat Giegue until someone convinces me otherwise.
Posted: 5/15/2008 7:06 AM
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Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
I assume that a level 25 Ness is DOABLE if you make every single attack miss, though I have never actually gotten up to Giygas so er... yeah. I have only gotten up to the mountain.
Posted: 5/16/2008 12:30 AM
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Floogal
Joined: 2/14/2007
Posts: 128
When rescuing Pippi, maybe you should get the Franklin Badge. When powerlevelling on Mt. Ioti, LastStarmen (the best source of exp) can defeat themselves with PK Beam gamma. Speeds up battles with large groups of them. Your strategy calls for 6 breads (including the one you get from your basement). Bread costs $30 apiece, but you only get $100 from the mayor (not $200). So you're 2 breads short. Consider detouring for the breads in the Zoo Office & Duncan's Factory. I don't see any problems with inventory space -- you can carry 8 things each (excluding equipped stuff). Giegue with level 25 solo Ninten is possible, but I believe it takes 3 LifeUpCreams. There's one right by the Rosemary Manor piano, and you can easily get some elsewhere (if nowhere else, grab some from the Doctor at the base of Mt. Ioti). When battling, your first sing can be on the 8th turn (but you might have to act after him), 11 sings take him down. Ninten starts level 1 with strength of 5, can be 77 by level 25, which translates to 173 max HP. Average of 34 damage per hit from Giegue -- can survive 5 hits (I've seen as low as 31 damage from his attack). Here's how the battle could go. Hopefully you can manipulate first-turns with a level 25 Ninten. 1) manipulate first move, PSI Shield alpha. 34 damage, Loid drops. 2-6) guard 7) manipulate last move, LifeUpCream 8) manipulate first move, sing 9-11) sing 12&13) sing & LifeUpCream, in order that guarantees most healing done 14-16) sing 17&18) sing & LifeUpCream, in order that guarantees moast healing done 19&20) sing
Posted: 5/16/2008 1:18 AM
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Nitrodon
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
My mistake about the money you get from the mayor. I was going completely from memory there. 77 strength means that the target HP value is 174, which means the maximum is 181. As for the damage dealt by Giegue, I'll try to reach that battle later and hack it. Damage manipulation is no problem, since damage and turn order are the only things to manipulate in that battle at all. Looking at the various maps on starmen.net, the LifeUpCreams close to my route are in the Zoo Office, Sweet Little's Factory, Rosemary Manor, and the doctor near the base of Mt. Itoi. I may skip the one in the Zoo Office for inventory management reasons. The Bread in Duncan's Factory is slightly out of the way, but at least it means I wouldn't need to pick up the Franklin Badge until I already have a second character to carry items. EDIT: My brief hacking attempt seems to indicate that Giegue's damage is always in the range 75-88 (37-44 defending or PSI shield, 18-22 defending with PSI shield). This means that Ninten would need to be level 26 to survive 5 attacks with a PSI shield up. If you've seen his attack deal 31 damage, I suppose I'll have to try hacking it more. Also, Giegue has 84 speed, which is exactly the same speed as my level 32 Ninten (from my normal playthrough), so turn order manipulation at level 25-26 should be easy enough. EDIT2: The ability to survive 4.5 attacks seems to be enough to beat Giegue with 3 LifeUpCreams anyway, so this does not cause any problems. EDIT3: Giegue's speed seemed like too much of a coincidence, so I tested something. It turns out that his speed is always exactly equal to Ninten's. Also, I was somehow dealt 17 damage a few times and 16 damage once while testing this (defending with a PSI shield up in all instances). I clearly didn't look closely enough while attempting to determine the damage formula. EDIT4: Yeah, I'm an idiot. I forgot to notice that some bit determines whether to add or subtract the random number (0 to 13.5) from the base damage (75). Giegue's damage range is thus 61-88, which actually means it's barely possible to survive 6 shielded hits at level 25, and I think that means you only need 2 LifeUpCreams. EDIT5: I misread the table, and it's actually +/- 24% instead of 18%. Giegue's damage range is therefore 57-93, or 28-46 with a PSI shield up. [EDIT6: 75 + 24% is not 91, so I corrected it]
Posted: 5/25/2008 4:46 AM
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Nitrodon
Active player (287)
Joined: 3/4/2006
Posts: 341
Starman Junior is defeated. His unexpected immunity to PK Beam gamma stopped all previous TAS attempts in their tracks, but it turns out that instant death isn't the only way to kill enemies while underleveled.
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