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https://tasvideos.org/8150S Link to video (MOD EDIT: Split from X-Men: Children of the Atom topic, this is a different game -Noxxa)
TAS i'm interested: megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched fighting games with speed goals in general
Noxxa
They/Them
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Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4085
Location: The Netherlands
Since BizHawk 2.9 came out with MAME support, I decided to take a look at how character health works with RAM watching. As with most fighting games of this time, character health is technically the same for every character - they just take different amounts of damage per attack. Also, every hit can randomly do ~5% more or less damage (subject to rounding). For instance, Akuma's 6MK can deal either 9 or 10 damage to Ryu. This even applies to low damage moves, e.g. Ryu's 2LK can do 2-3 damage. This appears to be purely RNG. For reference, every character has 144 health. To test out each character's durability, I hit them with the strongest single hit move I could think of (Juggernaut's HP Juggernaut Punch with his Power Up special active), and a few other moves. Based on that, and assuming the common baseline that Ryu takes 100% damage, I came up with this durability chart: (lower % = takes less damage per hit) Juggernaut - 78% Zangief - 89% Rogue - 92% Wolverine - 97% Ryu, Ken, Charlie, Cyclops, Gambit, Sabretooth - 100% M. Bison - 107% Cammy, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Storm, Magneto - 112% Akuma - 119% I guess the next important part is figuring out how damage scaling works in combos, so that optimal combo trees (with Akuma's 6MK/Tatsu loops) can be mapped out. EDIT: Relevant RAM addresses: - 0xFF5041 - Player 1 Char 1 health - 0xFF5043 - Player 1 Char 2 health - 0xFF5045 - Player 2 Char 1 health - 0xFF5047 - Player 2 Char 2 health EDIT 2: Some more research: - 0xFF545A (2 bytes) is the address of the RNG, which decides whether moves will do a low or high roll for damage. Based on rough testing there's somewhere between 70-75% of a move's damage being a high roll, and 25-30% of being a low roll. I don't know exactly how it's determined. Freezing it to 0 or 1 seems to always high roll, and freezing it to 2 seems to always low roll. - There's a damage scaling that applies based on the amount of health the opponent has left. Below 96 health (67%), hit damage is decreased to 95% (only seems to affect moves that do >15 damage), below 48 health (33%), hit damage is decreased to 80%, and below 16 health (11%), it is decreased to 60%. Against Ryu (and similar durability characters), Akuma's 6MK does 9-10 damage. Akuma's LK Tatsu does 55-58 (20-21, 18-19, 17-18) damage. 6MK into Tatsu is a 2-frame link, however if done as a combo some damage scaling will apply and the combo will do a few points less damage. Therefore, it's often better to not true combo the moves. Against the 112% damage group, 6MK does 10-11 damage, and LK Tatsu does 61-64 (22-23, 20-21, 19-20) damage. EDIT 3: While going through Akuma's moves I noticed that his LP Shoryuken also does surprisingly high damage for a single hit (25 on Ryu), which could give it some viability as an alternative finishing option. 5HP xx LP Shoryuken is a good 37 damage two-hit combo. By comparison, HP Shoryuken only does 19 damage max. EDIT 4: Vs Juggernaut you can combo 2HP into a 4-hit LP Tatsu in the corner (2HP is a launcher but Juggernaut's armor causes it to not launch if it is the first hit, while 2HP doesn't cause as much pushback as other HP/HK moves). This does up to 72 damage, which is very significant on Juggernaut.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Active player (467)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1710
Location: Brasil
Noxxa wrote:
Since BizHawk 2.9 came out with MAME support, I decided to take a look at how character health works with RAM watching. As with most fighting games of this time, character health is technically the same for every character - they just take different amounts of damage per attack. Also, every hit can randomly do ~5% more or less damage (subject to rounding). For instance, Akuma's 6MK can deal either 9 or 10 damage to Ryu. This even applies to low damage moves, e.g. Ryu's 2LK can do 2-3 damage. This appears to be purely RNG. For reference, every character has 144 health. To test out each character's durability, I hit them with the strongest single hit move I could think of (Juggernaut's HP Juggernaut Punch with his Power Up special active), and a few other moves. Based on that, and assuming the common baseline that Ryu takes 100% damage, I came up with this durability chart: (lower % = takes less damage per hit) Juggernaut - 78% Zangief - 89% Rogue - 92% Wolverine - 97% Ryu, Ken, Charlie, Cyclops, Gambit, Sabretooth - 100% M. Bison - 107% Cammy, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Storm, Magneto - 112% Akuma - 119% I guess the next important part is figuring out how damage scaling works in combos, so that optimal combo trees (with Akuma's 6MK/Tatsu loops) can be mapped out. EDIT: Relevant RAM addresses: - 0xFF5041 - Player 1 Char 1 health - 0xFF5043 - Player 1 Char 2 health - 0xFF5045 - Player 2 Char 1 health - 0xFF5047 - Player 2 Char 2 health EDIT 2: Some more research: - 0xFF545A (2 bytes) is the address of the RNG, which decides whether moves will do a low or high roll for damage. Based on rough testing there's somewhere between 70-75% of a move's damage being a high roll, and 25-30% of being a low roll. I don't know exactly how it's determined. Freezing it to 0 or 1 seems to always high roll, and freezing it to 2 seems to always low roll. - There's a damage scaling that applies based on the amount of health the opponent has left. Below 96 health (67%), hit damage is decreased to 95% (only seems to affect moves that do >15 damage), below 48 health (33%), hit damage is decreased to 80%, and below 16 health (11%), it is decreased to 60%. Against Ryu (and similar durability characters), Akuma's 6MK does 9-10 damage. Akuma's LK Tatsu does 55-58 (20-21, 18-19, 17-18) damage. 6MK into Tatsu is a 2-frame link, however if done as a combo some damage scaling will apply and the combo will do a few points less damage. Therefore, it's often better to not true combo the moves. Against the 112% damage group, 6MK does 10-11 damage, and LK Tatsu does 61-64 (22-23, 20-21, 19-20) damage. EDIT 3: While going through Akuma's moves I noticed that his LP Shoryuken also does surprisingly high damage for a single hit (25 on Ryu), which could give it some viability as an alternative finishing option. 5HP xx LP Shoryuken is a good 37 damage two-hit combo. By comparison, HP Shoryuken only does 19 damage max. EDIT 4: Vs Juggernaut you can combo 2HP into a 4-hit LP Tatsu in the corner (2HP is a launcher but Juggernaut's armor causes it to not launch if it is the first hit, while 2HP doesn't cause as much pushback as other HP/HK moves). This does up to 72 damage, which is very significant on Juggernaut.
The scaling for short tatsu and hop kick is something i noticed, but i just tried each time individually to see if i needed to not combo to kill enemies or not. Are you going to do this run in Bizhawk? btw you can try doing a better run with both akumas: Link to video
TAS i'm interested: megaman series: mmbn1 all chips, mmx3 any% psx glitched fighting games with speed goals in general
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4165)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4085
Location: The Netherlands
KusogeMan wrote:
Are you going to do this run in Bizhawk?
I don't have plans to do a run myself. I do think making a new run of this in BizHawk would be a good idea, though.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.