Experienced player (565)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1751
Location: Brasil
https://tasvideos.org/8150S Link to video (MOD EDIT: Split from X-Men: Children of the Atom topic, this is a different game -Noxxa)
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4096)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
Since BizHawk 2.9 came out with MAME support, I decided to take a look at how character health works with RAM watching. As with most fighting games of this time, character health is technically the same for every character - they just take different amounts of damage per attack. Also, every hit can randomly do ~5% more or less damage (subject to rounding). For instance, Akuma's 6MK can deal either 9 or 10 damage to Ryu. This even applies to low damage moves, e.g. Ryu's 2LK can do 2-3 damage. This appears to be purely RNG. For reference, every character has 144 health. To test out each character's durability, I hit them with the strongest single hit move I could think of (Juggernaut's HP Juggernaut Punch with his Power Up special active), and a few other moves. Based on that, and assuming the common baseline that Ryu takes 100% damage, I came up with this durability chart: (lower % = takes less damage per hit) Juggernaut - 78% Zangief - 89% Rogue - 92% Wolverine - 97% Ryu, Ken, Charlie, Cyclops, Gambit, Sabretooth - 100% M. Bison - 107% Cammy, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Storm, Magneto - 112% Akuma - 119% I guess the next important part is figuring out how damage scaling works in combos, so that optimal combo trees (with Akuma's 6MK/Tatsu loops) can be mapped out. EDIT: Relevant RAM addresses: - 0xFF5041 - Player 1 Char 1 health - 0xFF5043 - Player 1 Char 2 health - 0xFF5045 - Player 2 Char 1 health - 0xFF5047 - Player 2 Char 2 health EDIT 2: Some more research: - 0xFF545A (2 bytes) is the address of the RNG, which decides whether moves will do a low or high roll for damage. Based on rough testing there's somewhere between 70-75% of a move's damage being a high roll, and 25-30% of being a low roll. I don't know exactly how it's determined. Freezing it to 0 or 1 seems to always high roll, and freezing it to 2 seems to always low roll. - There's a damage scaling that applies based on the amount of health the opponent has left. Below 96 health (67%), hit damage is decreased to 95% (only seems to affect moves that do >15 damage), below 48 health (33%), hit damage is decreased to 80%, and below 16 health (11%), it is decreased to 60%. Against Ryu (and similar durability characters), Akuma's 6MK does 9-10 damage. Akuma's LK Tatsu does 55-58 (20-21, 18-19, 17-18) damage. 6MK into Tatsu is a 2-frame link, however if done as a combo some damage scaling will apply and the combo will do a few points less damage. Therefore, it's often better to not true combo the moves. Against the 112% damage group, 6MK does 10-11 damage, and LK Tatsu does 61-64 (22-23, 20-21, 19-20) damage. EDIT 3: While going through Akuma's moves I noticed that his LP Shoryuken also does surprisingly high damage for a single hit (25 on Ryu), which could give it some viability as an alternative finishing option. 5HP xx LP Shoryuken is a good 37 damage two-hit combo. By comparison, HP Shoryuken only does 19 damage max. EDIT 4: Vs Juggernaut you can combo 2HP into a 4-hit LP Tatsu in the corner (2HP is a launcher but Juggernaut's armor causes it to not launch if it is the first hit, while 2HP doesn't cause as much pushback as other HP/HK moves). This does up to 72 damage, which is very significant on Juggernaut.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.
Experienced player (565)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1751
Location: Brasil
Noxxa wrote:
Since BizHawk 2.9 came out with MAME support, I decided to take a look at how character health works with RAM watching. As with most fighting games of this time, character health is technically the same for every character - they just take different amounts of damage per attack. Also, every hit can randomly do ~5% more or less damage (subject to rounding). For instance, Akuma's 6MK can deal either 9 or 10 damage to Ryu. This even applies to low damage moves, e.g. Ryu's 2LK can do 2-3 damage. This appears to be purely RNG. For reference, every character has 144 health. To test out each character's durability, I hit them with the strongest single hit move I could think of (Juggernaut's HP Juggernaut Punch with his Power Up special active), and a few other moves. Based on that, and assuming the common baseline that Ryu takes 100% damage, I came up with this durability chart: (lower % = takes less damage per hit) Juggernaut - 78% Zangief - 89% Rogue - 92% Wolverine - 97% Ryu, Ken, Charlie, Cyclops, Gambit, Sabretooth - 100% M. Bison - 107% Cammy, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Storm, Magneto - 112% Akuma - 119% I guess the next important part is figuring out how damage scaling works in combos, so that optimal combo trees (with Akuma's 6MK/Tatsu loops) can be mapped out. EDIT: Relevant RAM addresses: - 0xFF5041 - Player 1 Char 1 health - 0xFF5043 - Player 1 Char 2 health - 0xFF5045 - Player 2 Char 1 health - 0xFF5047 - Player 2 Char 2 health EDIT 2: Some more research: - 0xFF545A (2 bytes) is the address of the RNG, which decides whether moves will do a low or high roll for damage. Based on rough testing there's somewhere between 70-75% of a move's damage being a high roll, and 25-30% of being a low roll. I don't know exactly how it's determined. Freezing it to 0 or 1 seems to always high roll, and freezing it to 2 seems to always low roll. - There's a damage scaling that applies based on the amount of health the opponent has left. Below 96 health (67%), hit damage is decreased to 95% (only seems to affect moves that do >15 damage), below 48 health (33%), hit damage is decreased to 80%, and below 16 health (11%), it is decreased to 60%. Against Ryu (and similar durability characters), Akuma's 6MK does 9-10 damage. Akuma's LK Tatsu does 55-58 (20-21, 18-19, 17-18) damage. 6MK into Tatsu is a 2-frame link, however if done as a combo some damage scaling will apply and the combo will do a few points less damage. Therefore, it's often better to not true combo the moves. Against the 112% damage group, 6MK does 10-11 damage, and LK Tatsu does 61-64 (22-23, 20-21, 19-20) damage. EDIT 3: While going through Akuma's moves I noticed that his LP Shoryuken also does surprisingly high damage for a single hit (25 on Ryu), which could give it some viability as an alternative finishing option. 5HP xx LP Shoryuken is a good 37 damage two-hit combo. By comparison, HP Shoryuken only does 19 damage max. EDIT 4: Vs Juggernaut you can combo 2HP into a 4-hit LP Tatsu in the corner (2HP is a launcher but Juggernaut's armor causes it to not launch if it is the first hit, while 2HP doesn't cause as much pushback as other HP/HK moves). This does up to 72 damage, which is very significant on Juggernaut.
The scaling for short tatsu and hop kick is something i noticed, but i just tried each time individually to see if i needed to not combo to kill enemies or not. Are you going to do this run in Bizhawk? btw you can try doing a better run with both akumas: Link to video
TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Noxxa
They/Them
Moderator, Expert player (4096)
Joined: 8/14/2009
Posts: 4089
Location: The Netherlands
KusogeMan wrote:
Are you going to do this run in Bizhawk?
I don't have plans to do a run myself. I do think making a new run of this in BizHawk would be a good idea, though.
http://www.youtube.com/Noxxa <dwangoAC> This is a TAS (...). Not suitable for all audiences. May cause undesirable side-effects. May contain emulator abuse. Emulator may be abusive. This product contains glitches known to the state of California to cause egg defects. <Masterjun> I'm just a guy arranging bits in a sequence which could potentially amuse other people looking at these bits <adelikat> In Oregon Trail, I sacrificed my own family to save time. In Star trek, I killed helpless comrades in escape pods to save time. Here, I kill my allies to save time. I think I need help.