Objectives

  • Genre: Board

Difficulty

"Normal Game" was selected here. Unlike the "Hard Game", the AI in the "Normal Game" has a chance of not blocking a win in 1. This TAS plays the fastest game of Connect Four theoretically possible, both in terms of turn number and checker drop time, winning with just a simple four-checker sequence vertically.
Given that there is no faster game of Connect Four possible, any TAS of the "Easy Game" is therefore pointless, especially when considering that merely selecting the "Easy Game" loses more time to menuing.

RNG

If I didn't miss anything, I exhaustively tested every possible alternate RNG scenario that could have possibly led to a different, faster outcome than this TAS. This included:
  • Testing different start frames of the game.
  • Testing different start frames for each of the computer's turns.
  • The computer is OK with stacking three checkers one column left of the middle, but will not make a stack in the column right of the middle, so testing this was a dead end.

Comparison to Existing TAS

Embedded above is an existing TAS of "Normal Game" by k80may from 8.5 years ago. It is 570 frames according to RTA timing (screen going black after selecting "One Player" to when the Connect Four™ text appears after winning). This submission is 574 frames using that same timing. That's 4 frames slower, so what gives? Well notice how k80may's video footage starts when "Connect Four" is selected from the menu, not from power on. We therefore have no idea when power on actually happened relative to this TAS, which I feel is very important to consider relative to the "submission must match or beat all known records" clause in the Movie Rules. I mean, k80may could have waited an hour on that title screen to get godly RNG for all we know, which would clearly NOT be faster relative to the TAS timing rules of this site. And as I mentioned earlier, I exhaustively tested everything to try and get this submission to match k80may's RTA time while still maximizing TAS time without luck. Therefore, while this submission does not beat all known records relative to RTA timing, it almost certainly beats all known records relative to TAS timing; thus I believe this submission is acceptable for the site.

nymx: Claiming for judging.
nymx: Ok...I had to bring this situation to our judges and was briefed on the rules that "used to be". Today, we have a different view on this. Basically, we can separate "Normal" and "Hard" into "Fastest Completion" and "Full Completion". This TAS would basically qualify for "Fastest Completion"...meaning that among the 3 difficulty selections, "Normal" beats the games as fast as possible.
I tested the "Easy" selection and you are completely correct. It takes way much longer and automatically default to "Normal", seeing that the fastest completion of the game (in terms of moves) wouldn't be any different. Additionally, I would like to add that the "other" TAS mentioned here isn't something that I am concerned with, because we have no way to scientifically verify (in this case a movie file) the speed of it. Since it wasn't published, you get the first stab at a publication.
Accepting as "Fastest Completion" for publication.

despoa: Processing...

nymx: setting to delayed, to examine against Tompa's work
nymx: Uploading a "Console" verified movie as the most accurate version demonstrated by Alyosha.
nymx: What is so odd about this improvement, is the shift that was done to eliminate time. Not because routing made it faster, but how it changed RNG to get the CPU to make its move faster...thus, eliminating the time for "Black" to make its next move..demonstrated by Tompa. So this is not an obvious situation, as the original inputs by Winslinator.
I would have thought a new submission by Tompa would have been a better decision, but permission has been given for the addition of co-author. I'm not in agreement with this, but I will honor the situation put forward.
Publisher...please make a note about https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638356713422978526, being an alternate version for fastest in an emulation setting, under BizHawk.
Accepting.
nymx: New improvement by Alyosha...which satisfies the emulator issue, witch console verification.
Publisher may take this on now.
nymx: Rearranged authorship as mentioned by Winslinator.

despoa: Processing...


TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15619
Location: 127.0.0.1
Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2224)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
A bit late to the party... At the time when this was a popular RTA run, I too did a TAS of it. I only posted it to some of the runners IIRC, and put the video as uinlisted because I thought it was too silly. I went by RTA timing for it and therefore the video started at that point, with the A press on "First Player", I also had manipulated the luck before this point to give me an optimal result. I was anyway able to stack my row to the right of the middle. This was faster because the computer always starts from the middle, reducing movement from the hand, as you can drop instantly to the left/right. How much this could potentially save, due to the extra luck manipulation for you, I don't know... Here's my video of it: Link to video EDIT: Here's also the .bk2 file of it, though I do not know which emulator version it will sync on.. Despoa confirmed that it syncs on 1.11.8.2 : https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638355029862106686
Editor, Publisher, Player (47)
Joined: 10/15/2021
Posts: 377
Winslinator, do you want to delay this submission so you can help incorporate Tompa's possible improvements or are you okay with submission being published as is?
Joined: 8/16/2022
Posts: 7
Yes let's set the submission to "delayed" to give me (Winslinator) a chance to thoroughly investigate this. Thanks for posting about this exploit, Tompa!
Wins alt account
Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2224)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
I currently got a 24f faster version, still trying to improve it. Edit: Wasn't able to improve that... Here it is: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638356713422978526
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3826)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2834
Location: US
This TAS (Tompa's most recent one) does not sync on console. Red blocks after the third black checker. Desyncs the same way on GBAHawk. So far I haven't been able to reproduce a winning condition without a much slower play from red.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3826)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2834
Location: US
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638358229433828542 Here is a version resynced on GBAHawk 2.0.2 that work on console, it is only 8 frames slower, not sure if better is possible.
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2246)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I will get to this later. I will not be home, most of the day. Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2246)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
I've gotten in late today and going to bed. I will fix this when I get up.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2246)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Tompa wrote:
I currently got a 24f faster version, still trying to improve it. Edit: Wasn't able to improve that... Here it is: https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638356713422978526
Because Tompa says that improvements are still being worked on, I'm going wait. If you don't mind, can you give me an update on the situation? Also...I know that you have denied being added as co-author, in recent past, so let me know about that among the two of you.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Tompa
Any
Editor, Expert player (2224)
Joined: 8/15/2005
Posts: 1943
Location: Mullsjö, Sweden
I'm done finding improvements for it. Well, if one would be technicaly about co-authorship... While I did already improve this TAS many years back and this submission brought no new info to the table for me, the more logical aspect would be for me to make a new submission with my improvement as a single author. However: The reason why I put the run as unlisted in the first place was because I think this is a quite silly and pointless TAS in general, so I won't bother with my own submission. Though feel free to replace it with my version and add me as co-author I guess. Though then the question is if it should be the version that actually syncs on actual hardware or not? And if so, Alyosha should just as well be added as an author. In any case: I don't care. Do whatever.
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2246)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Tompa wrote:
I'm done finding improvements for it. Well, if one would be technicaly about co-authorship... While I did already improve this TAS many years back and this submission brought no new info to the table for me, the more logical aspect would be for me to make a new submission with my improvement as a single author. However: The reason why I put the run as unlisted in the first place was because I think this is a quite silly and pointless TAS in general, so I won't bother with my own submission. Though feel free to replace it with my version and add me as co-author I guess. Though then the question is if it should be the version that actually syncs on actual hardware or not? And if so, Alyosha should just as well be added as an author. In any case: I don't care. Do whatever.
Thanks. I'll give this some tought.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
I think console sync is a good reason to have a slightly slower movie, as the primary publication or at least as a secondary file if we value absolute fastest known emu record.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3826)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2834
Location: US
I haven't checked my movie for optimality, I just wanted to demonstrate that console sync is possible. Probably someone should at l;east try to improve before it is used for submission. That being said, I think a movie that is demonstrated to be console accurate should be preferred over one that is demonstrated not to be, it's supposed to be a TAS representing GBA not emulator. I also don't care about authorship, do whatever makes the most sense, I'm only interested in accuracy.
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2246)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Alyosha wrote:
I haven't checked my movie for optimality, I just wanted to demonstrate that console sync is possible. Probably someone should at l;east try to improve before it is used for submission. That being said, I think a movie that is demonstrated to be console accurate should be preferred over one that is demonstrated not to be, it's supposed to be a TAS representing GBA not emulator. I also don't care about authorship, do whatever makes the most sense, I'm only interested in accuracy.
Was the version that you modified to be "Console Verified", derived from Tompa's inputs?
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3826)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2834
Location: US
nymx wrote:
Was the version that you modified to be "Console Verified", derived from Tompa's inputs?
Yeah, it's just a resync.
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2246)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Alyosha wrote:
nymx wrote:
Was the version that you modified to be "Console Verified", derived from Tompa's inputs?
Yeah, it's just a resync.
Thanks.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Alyosha
He/Him
Editor, Emulator Coder, Expert player (3826)
Joined: 11/30/2014
Posts: 2834
Location: US
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638362605045693618 I managed to find a manip that gives the same number of frames as Tompa's run, 8 frames faster than my original resync (and hence 8 frames faster than the accepted run.) EDIT: Console verification video: Link to video
nymx
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Expert player (2246)
Joined: 11/14/2014
Posts: 933
Location: South Pole, True Land Down Under
Alyosha wrote:
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638362605045693618 I managed to find a manip that gives the same number of frames as Tompa's run, 8 frames faster than my original resync (and hence 8 frames faster than the accepted run.)
Ok. I'll take care of this when I'm home.
I recently discovered that if you haven't reached a level of frustration with TASing any game, then you haven't done your due diligence. ---- SOYZA: Are you playing a game? NYMX: I'm not playing a game, I'm TASing. SOYZA: Oh...so its not a game...Its for real? ---- Anybody got a Quantum computer I can borrow for 20 minutes? Nevermind...eien's 64 core machine will do. :) ---- BOTing will be the end of all games. --NYMX
Joined: 8/16/2022
Posts: 7
Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to take a look at these new developments in a timely manner so I'm for just greenlighting what we have so far for publication if everyone else is ready. As far as authorship, I'm for putting Tompa as 1st author, Alyosha as 2nd author (if he wishes to be included for his efforts), and myself (Winslinator) as last author. I think this makes more sense as the improvements made by others from my original submission happened independent of my efforts. I'm also willing to update the submission notes to reflect the new movie once I get a chance.
Wins alt account
Editor, Publisher, Player (47)
Joined: 10/15/2021
Posts: 377
So for the rerecord count, Tompa's first file was 43 rerecords, then his next file was 832 rerecords, then Alyosha's first file was 8 rerecords, then his next file was 60 rerecords. I don't remember the rerecord count from Winslinator's original file, but I'm gonna guess the final input file had minimal to no input from him. What should the final rerecord count be? Tompa's and Alyosha's counts from their final files added up, or should it be set to "Unknown"?
Editor, Publisher, Player (47)
Joined: 10/15/2021
Posts: 377
I have came to an agreement with Tompa and Alyosha to add up the rerecord counts from their final files. The final rerecord count is 892. Can a judge replace the rerecord count?
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
Moderator
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15619
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [5683] GBA Connect Four "Normal Game" by Tompa, Alyosha & Winslinator in 00:24.65