Former player
Joined: 6/27/2004
Posts: 550
Location: New York
Looking forward to this one.
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Time after world 2: 8:07. Some general notes before I go into level-specific stuff. 1) I hate frogs. I had to make too many stupid move adjustments due to the little SOBs hopping around offscreen. 2) I hate 2-2. If you paid me a hundred bucks to redo that level alone, I wouldn't. 3) I ran into ONE shuriken powerup the whole world. And that was in 2-3 at a grey ninja I had to string a swing out to kill. Turns out I didn't need to power up since I sword-fu'd the boss. 4) I suck ass at walljumping. I scale the walls good and fast, but I'm totally baffled by the walljumping in the game. Sometimes ninja dude will just hang one frame away from having his feet TOUCH the wall so you can move and kick off the damn thing. No explanation as to why. There's also no proper way to GET his stupid ass to touch down. So that's why there's an ever-so-slight (it's longer at the speed I played at. xx) delay when I walljump. 5) There is a general lack of ANYTHING to kill in these stages. Pretty much the only people dying are hostage takers, armor guys, and the occasional ninja. Very rarely do I kill a regular enemy. Mainly because there hardly ARE any. Level 2 relies on flamethrowers and spikes to piss you off. And armor guys. The flame-summoning ones are the worst. See 2-3's fight for the red key. As such, it means I have WAY fewer chances to use invincibility. Yes, there's a full-meter pickup after I leave the yellow room in 2-1 when I kill the goon before the flamethrower. But I don't need a full meter. >< In 2-1, the main problem was the resident evil-level of backtracking. You'll see what I mean. In the yellow room, I killed one ninja so I could invinc through another on the trip back through. After leaving, I kill the guy on the platform to invinc through the flamethrower. 2-2 was the level from hell as far as I'm concerned. There are two sets of three) of vertical flamethrowers over conveyor belts. I literally had to stop on each set each way, I think, because there's no way I've been able to test to manipulate when they go off. I do try swinging through on invinc power one or two times, but I only get so far. This is probably the worst level in the game as far as speed goes. 2-3 was much better, even though it was still annoying as hell for me. The main hub is a HUGE room with plenty of grapple fun to be had. Getting the yellow key sucked, though. I pretty much HAD to take care of the hostages first to get enough invinc to last me going STRAIGHT up the center and through the flamethrower as a shortcut. >< Lots of fun THERE. The fight for the red key is ugly. No matter where I tried moving, those damn flames kept getting me. I should have gone back over that move I make on the platform, but... you couldn't PAY me to do these levels over again. Boss: I tested it. Fighting this frog-riding monkeyboy up top with swords is much faster (4 seconds + style purposes) than on the ground. He takes forever to get the hell up there, though. But once he does, the fun starts http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=3674859 Enjoy. Because that's as good as it's getting. From me, at least. Thankfully, I know the airport levels a little better and they're MUCH less hellish and annoying. More enemies means more meter building. And that means more invinc. Stylish crap like I pulled in world 1, in other words. Anyway, enjoy. I'm taking a day or three off. ><
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
9:27 after Airport-1. xx; Blar. This level would NOT cooperate with me in any way, shape, or form. I'm just glad I got a decent-enough route through the level... I think this is the only one I'm doing tonight. That single level has killed my damn hands. ><; Gruuu... Edit: 11:28 after Airport-2. Christ. Given how MASSIVE the stage is and how many damnable rooms there are - 7 to 8, depending on how you count - and how scattered the victims are, I'd say I did pretty good with my route. Some notes, though. In the elevator shaft, it took forever to flip my ass up to the ledge with the second shuriken power-up on it. I powered up EARLY here. X.x; ...I also started to really get that the SHORTER the grappling hook is, the higher you can boost from it. Makes no sense to me, but... Results are results. After getting the Blue Key, I swing over and rescue another hostage. As I do, I activate invinc power because the jerkass started shooting before the shuriken throwing animation finished. >< Blue Key Room Trip 1. There was just no really stylish way to handle those ninjas. I was hoping to only kill the one with the key, but my invinc powers, having JUST been used, were tapped. I did get enough from the key ninja that I could invinc and kill the other ones without getting damage, though. Out of boredom, I killed the goon outside the room mid-swing. Plus it gives a needed boost to an empty meter. In the middle elevator room, I go right and free the hostage I didn't in my previous trip. The way I saw it, I'd be going to the right for the green door, so I could free her then. Unfortunately, I had to pause for the upper electrical short, though I did slide through the lower one with invinc on. Final hostage room - took forever to get the miracle jump. See: Short Chain = Higher Jump. >< From there, it's a trip back to the Blue Room and over the large spiked pit. Inspiration struck. My meter was on empty, but I knew an armor goon was RIGHT by the door. And there's just a TINY space over there. However, a Flamethrower Goon is in the middle of the spiked pit. Taking a cue from earlier, I killed him mid-swing and the teeny bit of invincibility power I received was JUST enough to get me past the goon and through the door. Since it looked so nice as a whole, I figured I'd update early. Airport-3 and the boss are strangely simple. A-3 is inside an airplane. All the hostages are in the main corridor. So... Yeah. http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=8568587
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
13:34 after the Airport Boss. It was 13:36, but I went back and fixed it so it would be another sword dancing ass-whoopin'. Not to say I didn't use the shuriken, because I did. A fair amount, too. But sword jumping is faster and does a bit more damage. The caves... are going to be awhile. I've never seen past Cave-1, I'm afraid. I'll be mapping the first stage out later in more detail than I have been for the Airport stages, run through it until I'm comfortable with my movements, and then take a stab at it. Maybe. It and Cave-2 might not be worked on until tomorrow. I want to familiarize myself with them to the point where I'm confident in my route. Yeah, probably not the best idea in the world to run a game I haven't gotten this far in, huh? >_> Too late now, though. I dunno how many worlds the game is total. The first three are in a nice little line along the left side of the level-select screen... but the cave's in the dead center, all by itself. X.x Anyone HAPPEN to know how many stages (caves included) I have left to tear through? c.c It'd gimme a nice idea of how far done I am. I won't update the WIP until the caves are done, though. And it may take awhile. Damned bats and spiders. *wags fist*
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I haven't finished the caves either... n.n;;
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
*shudder* Consider yourself lucky. It gets so very much worse... Lasers. Lots and lots of lasers. Ceiling to floor, wall to wall, any height you can think of. Getting through the Base level - which seems to be the last, since it's on the right of the level select screen and also in the center like the Caves - untouched will be... impressive to watch, if a bit slow. x.x; There's not enough invincibility in the game to get me through all of those damn things. X.x;
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Okay, first: Holy CRAP. Second, it's gonna take longer than I expected to work through the Caves and the Base. The Caves? Easy as crap in comparison to the Base. I just beat the game -- Hard Mode only seems to add enemies to certain rooms and give them more HP as far as I noticed -- and...buh. Base-1 and Base-2, no hostages. Base-1 is a laserfest. Work your way to the bottom, take out the armor dude with the red key, move on. Base-2 is more of the same, only you've got to slide and crawl through air duct-sized passages, avoiding tiny lasers. >< At the bottom is an all-out ninja brawl. I think six total are summoned. Base-3 is the final boss - who's actually the Airplane Boss minus the dragon form. He teleports around, which is annoying, and periodically summons dragon flames to move up/down the whole screen. Huzzah for avoiding crap. Hopefully I can manipulate the idiot into NOT doing that, but don't expect much. Base-4? 90 seconds to stop a timer that's set to launch some missile thing. You start at the BOTTOM and have to scale a huge vertical shaft flanked by alternating lasers (Gruuu, wallcrawling! ><)... then you have to choose between fire and electricity. Then you have a laser-filled upper area with nothing but grapple points to swing up on. There's NO invinc to be seen here, so I can't abuse it. There's gonna be a sad amount of waiting. x.x About three hits from anything and I'm dead. They're all SHORT... but holy crap, do they ever make up for it in difficulty. So...yeah. Figured I'd mention all that. For the Caves... I SHOULD be done before the weekend. I'd really LIKE to get the whole game finished before the weekend's up, to be truthful. I'm glad the game's only five worlds big, since the last two are nightmares. So...yeah. Hopefully expect a Sunday-night release.
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
I effing hate the caves. I do. I really, really do. And you know what? I actually look forward to the Base since it will literally require NO planning. They're as straightfoward as you can get. http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=2734220 Up through Caves-1. But first, since my last update was only through Airport-2... Airport 3: As you can see, it's straightforward as crap. I pulled off some nice multi-enemy whoop-ass here. Had to kill the yellow ninja on the way back from retrieving the green key since he was in my way. Jerkass. Plus I needed invinc power for the green room. Stupid flamethrower guys. And yeah, the jump after getting the red key was kinda wonky (en route back through the blue door). I don't figure I could've gone much faster even if it had been a better jump, though, since the electricity was flowing. Airport-Boss: Stupid dragon. I needed that invinc power leftover from A-3 for this. As you can see, he has a hostage. Two shuriken/one sword slash and the wimpy dude croaks. Otherwise I would've been more gung-ho. Caves-1. *shudder* It doesn't seem bad, but that's only because I played through it like 8 times in 100% while mapping the whole stage out. After that, I knew exactly how to deal with certain parts... I think it turned out fairly well, despite my state of mind when I went into it. In case anyone cares, it doesn't matter if you overshoot a door like I sorta do when landing at the yellow door at the start. Ninja Joe can enter from a good ways on either side. For all the bitching I did in-channel, the yellow room came out well. Only I don't like that I had to do a wee retarded buttdrag to get Joe the last half-inch he needed to be so he could JUMP once on the right side of the area. ><; Blue room = walljumping and I EFFING HATE WALLJUMPING. Since there was a shuriken powerup nearby and since it wouldn't REALLY slow me down, I grabbed it. The boss of the caves is a dick, so I'm gonna need to find another powerup in the next two stages. If it has to be an out of the way powerup, so be it. I'd rather take a hit there than on the boss. I like my swing to the green room. I don't like how I had to scoot over and squat again to get the red key after slicing the flamethrower guy in it. I had no real reason to take out the spider on my next jump, but it doesn't really slow me down alot. And, as you can see, I barely made it off the top platform as is. If I hadn't killed it, I might not've made it. I opted to swing under the flamethrower guy between green and red rooms because it has more style than killing him mid-swing. Plus I dunno if I could even take him out with a level 2 shuriken in one hit. So there ya go. The first update in way too long. Blar...
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=3898956 19:46, 2219 rerecords as of Base-1. I've also officially stopped giving a shit. Caves-2: Wasted fireball shot. Don't care. Rest of the level came out very nice, especially the vertical room where I get the yellow key. The lifts were definitely on my side for once- they didn't get in the damn way this time. I also like the yellow room since the enemy ninjas were acting really weird and in-synch. Outside the room, I sword-jump into a swing. I like doing that. It's stylish. Plus I needed the split-second of invinc to get around those effing BATS above the red door. Caves-3: I hate crawlspaces. Killed two spiders on the way to the yellow key since I had to use what little invinc I already had to get past a ninja after getting the blue key. Fun fact - redoing the yellow room made me finally get sick of the game. I had restarted because I thought I had missed a hostage. Turns out, I had missed one in the MAIN room. So I basically restarted for nothing. The goddamn snakes in the yellow room also wouldn't work with me, forcing me to use my invinc both damn ways. Which certainly slowed me down when getting hostage 7 (6 in the run) from the upper part of the room since there are FIVE ninjas there. I was hoping to slide back through all of 'em. No dice on THAT. Even after the restart, that didn't work. The snakes hate the game as much as me, I guess. More swing/swordjump/swing style, though. Caves-Boss: I hate this boss. I thought I was missing shots. It would seem I wasn't, but it still added to the 'stopped caring' thing. Base-1: I included this to show wtf the final levels are like. Fun, huh? They get worse. At the armor guy at the right of the first level, I double swordjump by mistake. Don't give a crap, wasn't gonna hold the . key for five+ minutes just to redo one little mistake. As you can see - no hostages, just a race to the bottom amidst laser madness and one key from an enemy right in front of the door. I'm going to finish the run, but I refuse to submit. Anyone who wants to watch it can jolly well get it from here. I see way too many flaws in my run that I just don't give enough of a damn to fix. The awful red key fight in Airport-2, the double swordjump in Base-1, etc. I'm sure I could make the first levels much better with the skills I got from the last few. But my hands won't have it. This has basically just been something to do to A) Force myself to complete one of these damned things and B) Help kill time until I get my PS2 so I can play GTA:SA. I'm really messing my already-bad hands up on this damnable thing, and I need my hands in at least HALFWAY-decent shape for Thursday. xx; So expect the final update either late late tonight or early tomorrow. Because the Base is everything I hate. Waiting on things that HURT you, walljumping, lots of crawlspaces (see Base 2), a boss that you can't hurt constantly, and an escape sequence. Meh.
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
(Update: Kaitou has, in fact, submitted the run, with a professional report, even.)
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
I'd like you all to know one thing. http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=6456936 I'm not very fond of any of you. >< 2:54 after the Bank. That's a whole six seconds faster than the current one. xx I'm not saying if I'll be making a second movie, but I'll think about it. I can't seem to get away from NEEDING to fix the shit I left unfixed last time. To make things LOOK better. The seconds saved are mainly in the yellow and blue rooms of Bank-3. You'll see what I mean.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I thought I'd try improving this, so here's what I have so far. It's through the first world, and it's only 20 seconds faster but that's kind of a lot for this game. http://fast.filespace.org/nitsuja/Ninja-Five-0-U.vbm
JXQ
Experienced player (750)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
"only" 20 seconds faster? This is looking awesome. I had no idea the game could be optimized this much more than it was for the first run.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
Awful lotta swordjumpin' there. >>; Also, why did you get the shuriken powerup in 1-3 the way you did? You backtracked over to one dude on the lighting THEN went right and into the blue door. Why not get it on your way back and make it flow smoother? While I'm all for seeing someone whomp my time, I'd rather be out-styled. c.c Maybe I should try for a proper v2 after all.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
KaitouKid wrote:
Also, why did you get the shuriken powerup in 1-3 the way you did? You backtracked over to one dude on the lighting THEN went right and into the blue door. Why not get it on your way back and make it flow smoother?
I'm pretty sure it saved time to get it early, because it let me one-hit-kill all those enemies in the blue door room, and I wouldn't be able to get it on the way back and also swing-kill the hostage-taker that's under the chandeliers.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I guess I should respond to these other comments, too.
KaitouKid wrote:
Awful lotta swordjumpin' there. >>;
I take it you noticed the delay cancellation trick. (Grapple cancels the landing delay.) When I sword-jump without killing an enemy, that's usually because it gives a significant vertical boost to the jump. I tried your method of extending jumps horizontally by throwing a shuriken in mid-jump, but I couldn't get it to make any difference - is there a certain time during the jump where it matters, or does it only look like it extends the jump distance?
KaitouKid wrote:
While I'm all for seeing someone whomp my time, I'd rather be out-styled. c.c
Well, the game itself is so stylish, especially when in fast motion, that I think whatever ends up being fastest in it (that beat it under this set of rules) will also be pretty close to most-stylish.
KaitouKid wrote:
Maybe I should try for a proper v2 after all.
Sure, if you want - I'm positive it can be done even faster, since there are so many options for movement and routes in this game that it's nearly impossible to perfect.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I updated the link. 2-2 sucks, but I'm finally past it and now 60 seconds faster. EDIT: another update: finished 3-1 and picked up another 60 seconds EDIT2: found some major shortcuts in the caves. Now past 4-2 and a total of 2.9 minutes ahead.
Former player
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 384
I did indeed notice the delay cancellation. As for the shuriken horizontal boost, you have to hit it at JUST the right moment or it won't do it right. Heading into the top of Ninja Joe's jump, hit the attack button. If you slow my run down, you can probably see where I hit the button. I tried not doing it much, though, as it just looked tacky. :/ That's one of the troubles with NF-O. You can pull off impressive as hell swing moves, but Joe's a useless tub o' crap on land. >>;; And yes, 2-2 sucks. A lot. Wait for the caves. Ugh. Anyway, I wish you best of luck and hope you can bring the time to under 20 minutes. The way you're going, I'd say you're gonna get WELL under. I'd try, but honestly, my love for the game died somewhere towards the Base levels. >< The game drove me nutty. Just remember: If you need to jump really high, make your chain short as possible. The physics behind this baffle the crap out of me to this day. c.c; [Edit: Just watched the updated version. Good stuff on 2-2. Waiting on those effin' flamethrowers cost me a lot of time. You hate the walljumping yet? Or those damned frogs? Get used to tiny enemies coming at you at annoying times. Stupid bats... ><] [Edit 2: Gah. I just watched the up-to-3-1 one earlier. *wags fist* Anyway... what's the final time estimated to be, chief? o.o]
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Uh, my wild guess of an estimate is 18:30. Since if I splice the end of your run onto mine right now I'd get a time of 19:26, that means I'm guessing I'll get about another minute of improvement. That's assuming that I can find some way (that doesn't involve taking damage) to save a decent amount of waiting in Base 1, that I can find some way to attack more continuously in the 4-4 (bat) fight, and that I can improve everything else by multiple seconds per non-trivial room. BTW, did you know that the R button does something very useful to the grappling hook? Maybe you already noticed (I can't tell), but that's how I'm making all these impossible swing jumps. And I don't think the wall kicks are all that bad, just have to push hard into the wall and be willing to wait a few frames (Strangely, it seems to work best when he pushes against the air several pixels away from the wall). edit: Finished! In 18:07 too - I guess my estimate of 18:30 was a bit conservative.
Skilled player (1670)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Test run. So yeah I am redoing this run right now. Cheers. Also this test run is not too well executed I'm afraid. It doesn't even finish the game! Holer.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Skilled player (1670)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
So I am redoing this after a couple of years. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1861531203/Ninja%20Five-0%20%23%20GBA.vbm There you go. Have fun. This plays through roughly half the third level and is currently 58 frames ahead of the published run. Any advice are appreciated.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Joined: 5/19/2010
Posts: 259
Location: California
I feel kind of confused everytime I see your current run under "Popular Movies", because I always expect to see nitsuja's name there instead, you know, since your run obsoleted his. That, and his tag "nitsuja" just seems to be more related to the game at hand.
#3201
NitroGenesis
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (551)
Joined: 12/24/2009
Posts: 1873
Voted yes :p
YoungJ1997lol wrote:
Normally i would say Yes, but thennI thought "its not the same hack" so ill stick with meh.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
"Nitsuja" is, of course, "a justin" reversed. It just happens to look a lot like "ninja". (This became more obvious when we had nitsujrehtona on the site for awhile)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Skilled player (1670)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
Even though I'm apparently not supposed to be the one who has this TAS published; I'm still moving on with my TAS. Done with the Bank Stage
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!