VBA stores the time you start the run at in the movie file, and sets its internal clock to that upon playing the movie file, and when a movie is being recorded or played back it uses the game's frame counter instead of the system clock to modify the internal clock. But, this functionality has never been tested with this game so it's possible one of those steps isn't happening correctly...
I tested it out but nothing seems to be wrong... yet. The internal clock does change with rerecord savestates, which is good(not normal savestates, though, which is confusing). I recorded directly from power-on and did a runthrough at 200% speed for about 3 minutes.
Maza, do you know when the movie desynced?
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
82-35-43, it desynced right in my own room when i was turning to the stairs (or door, whatever). It turned one square too soon, so insted of going to the stairs, it it walked towards the wall. And so in the movie I didn't even get out of the first room :)
About the internal clock thing: I don't know about VBA but when i played Pokemon Crystal through with my phone (Nokia 3230) using vBoy emulator, it seemd to use the clock of the phone even though I was playing with double fps. So I played with double speed but the clock was workin in real time and was correct now matter what time I played it.
Mayby VBA has also an internal clock something like this.
About the internal clock thing: I don't know about VBA but when i played Pokemon Crystal through with my phone (Nokia 3230) using vBoy emulator, it seemd to use the clock of the phone even though I was playing with double fps. So I played with double speed but the clock was workin in real time and was correct now matter what time I played it. Mayby VBA has also an internal clock something like this.
When not recording, VBA syncs the internal clock with the system clock. When recording, VBA syncs the internal clock with the game's frame counter.
I believe now that the desync in your movie was caused by some random timing discrepancy rather than the internal clock, but I won't be sure that the clock won't cause problems until someone makes substantial progress.
I noticed the internal clock stays the same on the VBA Emulator if you speed up the frames as well. I used to do that just to make eggs hatch faster. :3
So it indeed stays the same no matter what.
I noticed the internal clock stays the same on the VBA Emulator if you speed up the frames as well. I used to do that just to make eggs hatch faster. :3
So it indeed stays the same no matter what.
The internal clock acts in real time, but only when not recording. I recorded a run at 200% speed. Comparing to the computer clock, the in-game clock (always relative to the internal clock) ran twice as fast. I was worried before that I would have to play back a movie at the same speed with which it was made to avoid desync.
The timer that controls egg-hatching runs on the number of steps you take, not on any clock. So, generally speaking, speeding up emulation makes eggs hatch faster. :)
Edit: I think I got everyone worried about the situation. It wasn't as bad as I made it out to be. My post came at a time when I didn't have immediate access to Pokemon GSC and I didn't actually know how Maza's run desynced.
Surprise~!
This movie file runs up to the completion of the first Gym (Violet City). It is by no means perfect - it's got a few mistakes that need correcting, and if I do go through with a run of Pokemon Gold, I'll probably start over from scratch, or back up quite a ways back.
Don't read too much into this, though.. Pokemon Gold is one of at least 5 games I've at least toyed around with in a search for my next speedrun. I think it's best if someone with more experience with the game takes this one on, though. But hey, it's a movie file, and it doesn't desynch.
(Edit: Here's a few luck manipulation tips I found, in case someone else besides me does this run:
- Unlike with Pokemon R/B/Y, trainers do have an AI that's smarter than "Pick a random move the Pokemon has". Don't expect to simply luck manipulate away every enemy Pokemon to do exactly what you want to do.
- Enemy attack choices seem to be decided at the beginning of the turn, not when you choose to attack, so if you want to try to manipulate the attack, do it immediately prior to selecting your action for the turn (in other words, when the enemy is releasing his Pokemon, or on the last action of the previous turn).
- Also unlike with Pokemon R/B/Y, critical hits no longer ignore ALL stat modifiers caused by moves such as Leer or Tail Whip, only those harmful to the attack. So, as you'll notice, I Leer a few of the earlier enemies to reduce the number of turns it'll take to defeat them by reducing their defense.)
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Hm, this movie desyncs if you don't turn on Left+Right/Up+Down.
Thanks for that Bag of Magic Food. I was just about to write that it desyncs in Professor Elm's lab where you pick up Cyndaquil.
But most of all, thanks to Tilus for making this run, even though it's just a test one.
I didn't have time to watch it completely but I promise I'll watch it right after I get back from school.
I hope I can be of assistance to you if you decide to finish this run.
GO Tilus! ;)
[edit]: Okey, I have now watched the run and it was definitely Tilus-quality run ;). I liked it a lot but there where few points that caught my attention and those are
1) Why did use select to send money to Mom (when she call you on your route to Violet Town)? After each battle with a trainer it says one more line because of this: "Sent some to mom"
2) Why did you use Smokescreen in the fight with Pidgeotto? Shouldn't you be able to luck manipulate his attacks to miss? Since it only reduces foe's accuracy I don't see the point unless it really takes that long to luck manipulate it to miss.
3) Why did you choose that time: 3.30, when you don't do anything that would require night? You could just have selected the time that was ready on it: 10.00.
Don't get me wrong. The run was very good, but these few things caught my attention.
As I mentioned, there are a few mistakes, and I'd likely be starting over if I continue on.
Smokescreen was used because the AI was dead set on using moves with 255/256 accuracy, and I didn't feel like manipulating away that small chance for each and every hit on a quick and dirty testrun.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Tilus wrote:
Smokescreen was used because the AI was dead set on using moves with 255/256 accuracy, and I didn't feel like manipulating away that small chance for each and every hit on a quick and dirty testrun.
Okey, that's understandable.
If (and hopefully when) you start making an actual run of this game, I'll be glad to help.
First thing I want to point out is to make run of Crystal, not Gold (unless you have some good reason for that). That is because in Crystal you can get Poliwag from outside Violet Town. (I tried myself to find it in Gold there but without any luck so I'm pretty sure you can't find it in Gold there.)
So Why Poliwag? Because it can learn HMs 3, 4, 6 & 7. Although I'd teach only Surf, Whirlpool and Waterfall to it. Strength (HM4) and Cut (HM1) would go to Sandshrew, which you can find in Union Cave.
I have few other ideas on Crystal (and some of them will most likely work in Gold too), but I wont bother typeing all of them here now. So if you want more info, just ask me and I'll be happy to share them.
Actually, didn't they fix it so that moves could have 100% accuracy now?
Yes, that is true. Moves that are supposed to have 100% accuracy excluding stat modifiers do have 100% accuracy (excluding stat modifiers).
I kept this secret for a while, but I worked on a run of Pokemon Silver. I made it into Goldenrod before I realized the run desynced almost at the beginning. What surprised me was that depending on the savefile the movie cleared, the run desyncs in two different ways! Or was it the time/timing? I have absolutely no clue why this is.
Cyndaquil's Smokescreen (and possibly the Quick Claw item) is vital, since there are many opponents that want to use nothing but deadly 100% accuracy moves. Mud-Slap does the same but is dispensible, since it doesn't work on flying. I took a hit from the first Spearow in Violet Gym because it was faster. (Edit: meaning Spearow was faster)
In my test run, I caught Sentret (Cut, Surf), and Pidgey (Fly), and had planned to catch red Gyarados in Lake of Rage (Whirlpool, Waterfall).
Edit: Watched the run and it looks good. I never realized the pokeball with Cyndaquil could be grabbed from the side of the table. I think now that the problem with my desync is recording using the ROM in the same folder that I used to save games before. Weird things happen otherwise. I copied my Silver ROM into a different folder, but my run cannot be fixed without savestates.
If anybody wants, I can post my run with a savestate that fixes the desync.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
I got bored so I decided to write here how I would start making a run of Pokemon G/S/C.
1) Set the time to 3.30 AM (so that it will be night for 30 minutes and then change to morning)
2) Choose Cyndaquil
3) Go to the Cherrygrove City and from there to Mr. Pokemon
4) Return to Cherrygrove City and fight the rival
5) Return to New Bark Town
6) From New Bark backtrack back to Cherrygrove and from there continue up to Voilet City
7) Catch Pidgey or Hoot Hoot for HM2 Fly. Althou' this could wait since you don't have HM2 yet.
8) Fight the trainer in your way.
9) In the grass just before Violet City, catch Poliwag (for HM3 Surf, HM6 Whirlpool and HM7 Waterfall).
10) Go beat the gym.
11) Ignore the Sprout Tower where you can get HM5 Flash. You don't need it.
12) Head for Union Cave & Azalea Town (You need to go to pokemon centre in some part when you are in Violet City to recieve the Egg. Could be a good time to heal.)
13) On route to Union Cave, when you have to choose between grassy and bridge routes, take the grassy one.
14) Go through Union Cave. And while travelling through it, catch a Sandshrew for HM1 Cut, HM4 Strength and TM8 Rock Smash (Although you most likely won't need Rock Smash). Sandshrews can olny be found in the morning but as Tilus has demonstrated, the time should already be over 4.00 AM.
15) In Azalea Town, talk to Kurt (if I remember the guy right) and go to the Slowpoke Well to beat up Team Rocket.
16) After completing Slowpoke Well mission, you can enter Azalea Gym.
If there's any interest, I'll continue this "speed wakthrough" of mine (and maybe correct something if I have made some mistakes).
First thing I want to point out is to make run of Crystal
Would Crystal be slower overall? Extra things thrown in like Suicune and stuff, and IIRC you had to catch it to progress. How about using Marill for an HM slave (that who I used for my water HMs when I played casually, and I think you can get one relatively early on).
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
alexpenev wrote:
How about using Marill for an HM slave (that who I used for my water HMs when I played casually, and I think you can get one relatively early on).
Marill woulb be good idea (if making run of G/S), BUT you can get it only from Mount Mortar and you'll be needing Surf before that.
I actually don't know which slave-combination should be used in G/S. When I played through Gold, I used Krabby (Cut, Surf, Strength, Whirlpool) and Gyarados (Waterfall & TM8 Rock Smash).
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
I heard Crystal had animated Pokeymon. Do they make it any slower?
Yes, the pokemons are animated, but you can turn the animations off from the Option.
Actually, I have doubts it'll be 4 AM by the time you reach Union Cave if you go by my speedrun. I only spent 14 minutes beating the first gym. Maybe if you set the time closer to 3:45 AM (you should be able to pick up your Poliwag before sunrise), it'll be more likely for you to get your Sandshrew?
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you know it better, since you have made a run to Violet City.
When I first said in here that the time should be set to 3.30 AM, it was just an estimate which needed to be tested (which you have now done).
Yeah, go ahead and post any sort of in progress speedruns, planned routes, and the like. Now that we've established a run of G/S/C is possible, we should start planning the route, what sort of movesets we'll use in the run, and so on.
I'm actually playing through Gold right now, to get a better feel for the game and get a good idea as to what a run of Gold (or Silver or Crystal) would require.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
The reason why I'd choose Cyndaquil as my starter is because you can teach Typhlosion (the evolved form) Earthquake/Dig/Mudslap (Ground type), Thunderpunch (electric type) and Iron Tail (Steel type) attacks. Plus it learns Flamethrower (Fire type). So there you'd had a pretty good attack combination.
And if you need water type, you can use the Poliwag (or what ever waterHM-slave you're going to use). Although its level might be pretty low so that might complicate things bit.
Btw, I just noted that Suicune can also learn Surf, Whirlpool & Waterfall, so if you can get suicune before Olivine City, I'd use that as waterHM-slave. But I don't remember exactly at which point you are able to get Suicune. (That is in Crystal of course.)
Also what should be done with Sudowoodo, the treepokemon that is blockin the way? Should it be captured or would that be just a waste of time. I'm pretty sure you won't need it for anything. That is because only thing that it's good against is Flying (+ some others that Cyndaquil can handle). So it will most likely prove useless.
Well, that's all I could think of now. :)
I decided to share my Silver run:
http://rapidshare.de/files/7452028/pokemonGSC.zip.html
Note that the run desyncs if you watch it from the beginning. The only way to fix the desync is to load it from the savestate in the .zip file.
Tilus wrote:
Now that we've established a run of G/S/C is possible,
Just warn others not to do any casual gameplay on the same ROM in the same folder (or have done it previously). I did that and paid for it.
Maza wrote:
Also what should be done with Sudowoodo, the treepokemon that is blockin the way?
I would just ignore it. Can't Typhlosion learn Rock moves?
