Topic by Graveworm

Posted: 10/13/2005 7:28 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

I've played around a bit with Wire sponge, I've always had to waste a couple of frames to have him hang by the ceiling for those 6 last hits, so I guess I'll need to play it more. I had heat on the first and rain on the second part of the latter part of Wiresponge stage. I think I'll have to play with that, though I don't know what causes what weather.

Posted: 10/28/2005 8:48 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

Here you go: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/243/MegamanX2.smv Now tell me what I did wrong so I can correct it and move on to the Wire sponge stage. (I'll fix the first small shot at the boss later, so don't bother with that.) No, I did not use 16k rerecords, and I havn't played this game in a while, so I decided to continue today.

Posted: 10/28/2005 10:10 PM

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DeHackEd

Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Former player

Joined: 11/6/2004
Posts: 833

Most impressive. The amortized shots against the boss look really good. Nothing obvious strikes me at 50% speed, and I don't intend to frame-step through looking for any minor pixel-imperfect moves. I say print it!

Posted: 10/28/2005 11:32 PM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

Wow. 277 frames faster. And I thought I was good at coming up with ways to beat bosses. Guess not.

Posted: 10/28/2005 11:44 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

I'm gonna improve the boss fight and the climb up the long wall, and I think I'm 1 frame too high when going over the last ledge before the fall to the boss. Well see how that goes. The boss fight strategy was just a test, I don't know if there's a faster way, 'cause I just got the idea like a couple of hours ago and I had to try it.

Posted: 10/29/2005 6:03 AM
(Edited: 11/17/2005 1:01 AM)

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

Graveworm wrote:

The boss fight strategy was just a test, I don't know if there's a faster way, 'cause I just got the idea like a couple of hours ago and I had to try it.

I believe your strategy is the fastest. Alternating charged and uncharged is generally the quickest way to beat many bosses with the X-Buster. The same strategy can probably be used to beat Blizzard Buffalo in MMX3. Boss battles are basically the one main reason I try to improve runs. I began to TAS just because of the Wheel Gator bashing. Every day, I try to think up any possible method to beat them, even if it seems "impossible".

Posted: 10/29/2005 6:18 AM

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NrgSpoon

Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646

Since you dash, the relative speed of the shot is faster, so of COURSE it'll do more damage! It's just common sense!

I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.

Posted: 10/29/2005 9:10 AM

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nitsuja

Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)

Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687

FractalFusion wrote:

I believe your strategy is the fastest. Alternating charged and uncharged is generally the quickest way to beat many bosses with the X-Buster. The same strategy can probably be used to beat Blizzard Buffalo in MMX3.

Keep in mind that uncharged shots only do 80% as much damage to Blizzard Buffalo as they do to this boss, relative to charged shots, and that with the extra damage from uncharged shots here it was only 32 frames faster than not using this strategy. So I don't think it would be faster there, although I'm not completely sure (someone should try it sometime).

Posted: 10/29/2005 11:16 AM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

When I tried this technique I wasn't sure I'd be able to have shots going through the air the 30 frames that it required to be faster than only using 3 charge ups (Highest level without arm cannon upgrade), but I was completely thrilled about the result, it's really cool though. I managed to save two frames in the wall climb of the intro stage yesterday, I might be able to shave off another one or two in other parts of the second half of the stage, and on the first uncharged shot I shoot I might be able to improve it by one to three frames and the second one by 1-2 frames, though now that I watch it, I'm really not very sure anymore, but I'll look into it.

Posted: 11/17/2005 1:00 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

I've started version 3 of the run up to Wire Sponge's gate. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/290/MegamnX2.smv I saved 3 frames from Graveworm's intro stage run and 398 frames from my previous run. The weather was hard to manipulate. If there are any mistakes in the run, feel free to point out. I am willing to start over this time.

Posted: 11/17/2005 3:05 AM

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asteron

Joined: 2/16/2005
Posts: 462

Glad you are giving it another go. X2 looked like it was just one run away from being really great. If you match or beat all the level times in your last run I don't see any way it won't be.

This signature is much better than its previous version.

Posted: 11/17/2005 7:42 PM
(Edited: 11/17/2005 7:49 PM)

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

FractalFusion wrote:

I've started version 3 of the run up to Wire Sponge's gate. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/290/MegamnX2.smv I saved 3 frames from Graveworm's intro stage run and 398 frames from my previous run. The weather was hard to manipulate. If there are any mistakes in the run, feel free to point out. I am willing to start over this time.

Sorry, but I've redone the intro stage and I'm even faster than that, I believe I'm getting close to perfection now. Oh, and charging your weapon lags the game for a frame, so you'd better delete the first one on the intro stage and on the Wire sponge stage, since you don't need to shoot any of them. Hehe, and it looked just like my last version of Wire Sponge, except for the item pickups, I was like "When did I do this?" when I watched it. Very good indeed, I'll upload the latest intro stage when I'm at my computer.

Posted: 11/17/2005 7:48 PM

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Shinryuu

Experienced player (538)

Joined: 5/12/2005
Posts: 707

Good Job indeed :)

Posted: 11/17/2005 7:52 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

Oh, the latest one is Fractal Fusion's, it's just that he stole all the tricks I used. :P (Just kidding.) If you didn't notice. (Everyone makes mistakes.) Edit: I don't know what I was thinking, I'm ill at the time being, and deleted the rest of the message.

Posted: 11/17/2005 10:02 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

Sorry for doubleposting, but I just want somebody too see this. Somehow when I play my latest video, the emulator plays another video of the same game, the version before the one I was working on right now, but in the play movie window it shows the right rerecord count and movie length of the one that it should play. Has anyone encountered this problem, and if so how do I fix it? It's only half of the intro stage, so I don't have a backup of the video, but I don't wanna redo it anyway. :/

Posted: 11/18/2005 12:02 AM

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hanzou

Player (20)

Joined: 10/14/2005
Posts: 317

FractalFusion wrote:

I've started version 3 of the run up to Wire Sponge's gate.

Hey man. Just wondering, are you still working on your Megaman X 100% run as well? -hanzou

Posted: 11/18/2005 4:24 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

hanzou wrote:

FractalFusion wrote:
I've started version 3 of the run up to Wire Sponge's gate.
Hey man. Just wondering, are you still working on your Megaman X 100% run as well? -hanzou

I've taken a break from that run, but I might do it while Graveworm is preparing to show us a faster intro stage. Graveworm, do you know where the lag occurs when I charge up? I can't seem to find it.

Posted: 11/18/2005 5:05 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

I just realized it only occurs in Megaman X3, sorry about that one. :/ I redid the intro stage today, didn't save any time, (I might have lost a frame or two) but I'll go with that one anyway. As soon as I get ahold of a hex editor I'm gonna change some of the things in it, but nothing major, and it shouldn't save a frame, but I wanna do it anyway. :)

Posted: 11/18/2005 10:41 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

New post, just so that people will notice. http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/296/v2-1.smv That should be the right one. I noticed for some reason the intro boss takes 3 frames longer to die than in Fractal Fusion's video, I do not know why, but if someone could tell me why, 'cause to me it seems like I've tried everything to not have that 3 frame delay right after the boss dies (the final shot is fired), so I actually do not know what Fractal Fusion does that I don't. And the Wire sponge stage may be improved, but I don't know by how much, nor did I spot any mistakes when I watched it, but I'm pretty sure they're there. Well, enjoy.

Posted: 11/19/2005 12:26 AM

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FractalFusion

Editor, Skilled player (1939)

Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3247

Good job, Graveworm. From comparing runs, the frame loss is occurring because of the lag that occurs when the boss's dead parts accumulate randomly on the screen. Basically, try to kill the boss in different ways and see which one is the best. One frame was lost just before then (around when it "whites out"). The same type of thing happened in my v2 run, where coming in to Crystal Snail's room with X-Buster took 10 less frames than coming in with any other weapon (I still used Remote Mine). Might be true for boss explosions as well. By the way, heat in Wire Sponge's stage tends to cause lag, so kill the enemies around (or at least the orbs that the flying things drop). Edit: Graveworm posted a run on the previous message. Go back a page if you missed it.

Posted: 12/8/2005 7:16 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/454/MMX2.smv Yay, managed to improve the intro stage by 7 frames, 1 in the stage, 3 on the boss and 3 more due to avoiding lag in the end. I had to do what FractalFusion did in his video with the ending shot, so it might look a little strange when I'm using the exact same strategy for the shot, but when it saves 3 frames, I think it's worth copying someone else. Now, to decide whether to do it with no enhancements/upgrades, or all enhancements upgrade. I wont battle Agile, Serges or Violen for Zero parts in any of the alternatives, since Agile will appear in Bubble crabs stage for both alternatives, and if you know what you have to do to spawn a mini-boss in Bubble Crabs stage, you will agree with me. Edit: I got to the latter part of Wire Sponge stage before I ran into a major problem, which leaves me to either restart or waste alot of frames. :/

Posted: 12/19/2005 9:25 PM

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Graveworm

Former player

Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 460

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/524/MMX2.smv 40 frames faster than my last attempt, but I'm sure that it's still improvable, so I guess I'm gonna start working on doing that right now.

Posted: 12/19/2005 9:37 PM

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