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Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
Hi Marshmallow! Good to see you here. Your run was indeed great for 3 hours on a live play through. I had not realized that you were the same person who wrote the SMRPG FAQ on GameFAQs. Regarding your overworld movements, I've actually been having a hard time beating your timing on some areas even using an emulator, such as the Kero Sewers for instance. Without your video for an example, I don't think I would have realized it was possible to kill as many enemies with the star as you did. I can meet that, but I haven't been able to do any better in my trial run so far. Regarding the Kero Sewers to Land's End shortcut, I have all but abandoned that line of inquiry, because it seems like it is impossible to jump the required cliff next to the Shyaway. I think I described the method to get there in an above post, if you would like to try and see if you can figure it out, that would be very helpful! My idea was to exit on Land's End, get the two stars before the Temple, die at Belome, repeat at least once, go to Monstro Town, get Super Suit and Attack Scarf, and *poof* instant Mario-tank for the rest of the game, even though he would (I assumed) never be able to acquire the Lazy Shell. Mallow I would use, when alive, primarily to use items such as Red Essences and Syrups (since I would not have much FP), and if I was good with health and FP, Rock Candies. Regarding the lazy shell and other levels, my thought was that areas between Kero Sewers and Land's End would be inaccessible, since I was assuming access to a particular level is allowed only after completing certain actions, which I would never have completed. I was somewhat worried things would glitch up when characters I don't have in my party have lines of dialogue, but I figured it was worth a shot, especially since Mallow is the character with the most action oriented scenes (Nimbus Land) and he is in the party. Another possibility was that the other party members, while not available to switch with or add a third member in battle, would still appear in the overworld as normal. Anyway, perhaps you could give your opinion regarding the Quartz crystal question I posed above?
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 18
OK, so no one has done the Land's End trick yet...I remember now, right, there's that wall with the barrel up top that you can't pass. That's pretty funny -- the Nintendo game testers did a good job. =) As far as Culex...I don't know. It comes down to this -- What's faster? Skipping culex or fighting him and using the Quartz? I'm not so sure if the Quartz would really make whoever put it on that much more useful than they would be without it, and I usually use my Geno boost on Mario to make his attack ridiculous. If the Quartz makes whoever's attack close to Mario's then maybe it is worth it IF you can beat Culex in the manner you described. But that would be some serious super jumping...Are you sure you can kill Culex with that many jumps? Does anyone know if a Geno Boost stacks with the Quartz?
David "marshmallow" Gibbons
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
Geno boost does NOT stack with Quartz, unfortunately. If it was, that would be incredible. My end game setup (post-Volcano) planned is: Peach: Frying Pan, Super Suit, Troopa Pin Mario: Lazy Shell, Work Pants, Attack Scarf Bowser/Geno: (weapon), Work Pants, Quartz Charm Every level up I get for Peach and Geno I'm putting into Attack. Bowser gets Attack except when the Special bonus is higher, Mario gets Special except when the Attack bonus is higher. At level 21, here's what this party does, based on the damage calculations FAQ on GameFAQs, plus some of my own testing : Against a goomba, Peach hits for 861, Geno for 663, Mario for 546. Total damage per turn = 2070. Against, say, the Factory Chief (Defense 120, 1000 HP) and Gunyolk (Defense 130, 1500 HP), All three characters use Rock Candy on the first round, dealing 800 damage. Peach physically attacks Gunyolk, dealing 471 damage. Mario and Geno each deal over 300 damage, so they kill whichever enemy they pick. The fight is over in two rounds of combat. Now, you had Mario only on level 16 by the time you entered the Gate. If we add Culex's experience to that, you're probably around level 18. Repeating the stars on Land's End once will be at least 19. I am also planning on using the lucky jewel to double the experience from many bosses. My goal is to be around level 20 by that time, which I may or may not be, because level 20 is the point at which increased level ups give diminishing returns in terms of stat boosts, however level 20's boosts give the greatest increases overall. I would like at least Peach to be at level 21 by that time, which is entirely possible since she's acquired last and therefore will start on the highest level. Regardless of level, though, we also need to consider Rock Candy usage. Basically, with the Quartz Charm, I can do a minimum of 800 damage per turn to all enemies, from the beginning. Without the quartz charm, assume Peach has the troopa pin. Then we do 500 damage the first turn (Mario does 200, Peach does 300), 600 the second turn (Mario does 300, Peach does 300), and 900 each subsequent turn. In the long run it would probably pay off, but there aren't many enemies that have that much HP. (Keep in mind, I am assuming unlimited Rock Candy usage since this is tool assisted) Basically, I am about 70% convinced getting the Quartz charm is worth it, but it really depends on if I can convince myself it will save me enough rounds of combat on enough battles to justify spending a few minutes more in Monstro Town. And I'm not sure how much time all the saved time would add up to, and I'm not sure I will be able to figure it out unless I make two runs through. Regarding killing Culex, I've killed Culex with the method I described more than once before, and although I was at higher levels, it could certainly be done at a lower levels because the integral part of it is the Super Suit/Attack scarf to megaboost Mario's magic attack stat, and using the Geno Beam the second time to shorten the number of jumps required.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
I'mma gonna give this one a shot too. If there is a way to skip to Land's End then by all means do it I say (anyone check the Japanese version for vulnerability?). Someone can always come behind and make a warpless version. ^.^ Even if it doesn't give you the 5 (4?) stars automagically you still get a chance to level up your characters incredibly quickly. I've never heard of this star-death trick. I'll have to do some research.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
I believe the Japanese version is virtually identical gameplaywise to the English version, since according to GameFAQs, this is one game that was actually released in America the day before it was released in Japan. If I'm mistaken, please let me know. I haven't seen any webpages that compare the Japanese version to American as in so many other games.
Joined: 10/9/2004
Posts: 18
OmnipotentEntity: Save before an invincibility star. Take the star, plow through enemies, then die on purpose. When you come back to the save block you will have a fresh star and you will KEEP all of your experience you gained from the last run. Repeat until you pass out.
David "marshmallow" Gibbons
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Gah, sorry, I've never heard it called that. Are there any other known glitches or is it solid? One more question, do you think it'd be worth the effort to powerup the jump in Mushroom way and Bowser's Castle in order to spank the Hammer Bros in 2 turns instead of 5? I'd think it'd also help with the battle against Croco and Mack, but I don't know if it'd be time efficient.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 89
I don't know. Is the jump powered up in the Bowser's castle scenario? I think it's faster to jump twice on the chain anyhow. But all in all, Jump won't be used much if everything falls into plan with levels. Expecially getting the experience doubler as soon as you hit seaside town, that'll give you a significant boost.
SWOOOOOOOM
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Jump is more frames than Punch. A timed Punch is equal to a regular Punch speedwise. The Kinklink has 60 hit points iirc. You can get 52 out of your first jump, meaning 54 if you've used it twice in the castle. (You can only use it 3 times b/c of FP unless anyone knows of a way to recharge FP in the castle) You get low 40s out of a jump on the hammer bros. They have from 47-50 hit points apiece. (I'm guessing 50) Each time you use the jump you gain .75 points on power. So you'd have to use it 12 or so times before you can kill a Hammer Bros in one hit. That seems a bit high for a small gain, but I didn't know if it'd significantly quicken the pace of Croco and Mack. It might make up for the wasted turns for FP refills. The quickest place to level up your jump is in Bowser's Castle (because no ending song and dance, but also no exp.). But I don't remember a random FP Max thing so that might not work. And it also might save some time in Mid-Late Game if I run into a situation where I only have 4 FPs left, don't have the Lazy Shell yet, and don't want to waste Mario's Turn. 10 hit points can make a lot of difference sometimes.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
OmnipotentEntity, are you the same person as Ghoti2 from the GameFAQs forums? I ask because your sigs ("PS: This is what part of the alphabet" etc) are the same. If you're going to be doing a run, this will be interesting, because with the nature of the game, it's likely that we'll end up using very different strategies for a lot of things and it will be interesting to see if aspects of my run or your run end up being faster for different parts of the game. Given the pace I'm going though, it'll be a while yet before I'll have any results to show. Do you think you'll be killing Culex, by the way? About the jump issue, I personally don't think it's worth it to get into battles for the sake of powering up Jump unless you were planning on getting into battles for the sake of experience.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Well, I eventually wound up going this route: Three jumps on the first four terrapins. Two jumps on Kinklink. (I was in error, your FP recharges automagically before you face Bowser) Two jumps on the goombas blocking Toad. Two jumps on the goombas on the rotating flower. One jump on the flying turtle holding Toad That's a total of ten before the Hammer Bros. For a total of 14 before Croco. Which is 5 extra points of damage per jump iirc. I'm not Ghoti2. The sig is from Mitch Hedburg, quite possibly the best non-mainstream comic. I'm going to make it a point to get Culex. I'm going to make it a point to take as little damage as possible. (Always block, force misses as often as I care to, it's probably very possible to take no damage at all through timed hits.) I'm not going to use the star-death trick. I'm going to try to find a way to skip to Land's End if possible. And I'm going to have to find a way to keep it from desyncing every 5 minutes. >_< EDIT: It seems to be based on how fast I'm running the framerate... odd. I might have to try another emulator to get this one finished.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Player (70)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Ain't SNES9x working for you?
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
I haven't done much recording in a while, but I noticed that it desyncs if I'm playing back my recording at a speed faster than normal (like to skip the dialogue scenes or "cutscenes"). I'm not sure if this is a way to consistently stop it from desyncing, but please let me know your findings on this before I start recording all the way through! By the way, given the recording limits, are you going to be doing it in two segments, or do you think you would be able to do it in a single movie? I don't think it's possible unless you get the Kero Sewers shortcut to work.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Highness wrote:
Ain't SNES9x working for you?
That's what I'm using.
Avin wrote:
I haven't done much recording in a while, but I noticed that it desyncs if I'm playing back my recording at a speed faster than normal (like to skip the dialogue scenes or "cutscenes"). I'm not sure if this is a way to consistently stop it from desyncing, but please let me know your findings on this before I start recording all the way through!
I thought that too. But I've ran it at 8, 17, 20, and 35. They all desync at a different spot.
Avin wrote:
By the way, given the recording limits, are you going to be doing it in two segments, or do you think you would be able to do it in a single movie? I don't think it's possible unless you get the Kero Sewers shortcut to work.
If I can a single movie. As this is my first attempted speedrun though, probably not going to make it.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
As I've been playing through, I've made a few changes in plans: - I'm not going to use the star death trick after all, it doesn't seem like it's worth the time. - I'm not going to fight Culex. At best, I'm at level 13 when I get to him, and even with the Super Suit and Attack Scarf, I end up only doing about 3000 damage to him with 200 Super Jumps, the second time being Geno Boosted. So it would take more time than I anticipated, essentially making it not worth it. Another thing I'm now considering is NOT getting the Experience Booster. This means not having to accumulate 22 Frog Coins, which would save a decent amount of time. From Booster's Pass onward, my game has consisted mainly of using the single Rock Candy I have over and over and over again (with some slight variations). I suppose this isn't too exciting, but it is somewhat interesting seeing how many rounds of combat I can down each boss in. Yaridovich has been the hardest battle so far. After Monstro Town, though, things seem to get much easier because of Super Suit/Attack Scarf usage. So I'm questioning whether it's worth having the exp booster at all. The biggest thing that still makes me think it's worth it is that there are a total of 6 stars after Seaside Town (Sea, 3 in Land's End/Temple, Nibus Land Castle, Volcano) that could potentially be doubled with the Exp Booster. Another possibility is to get it after defeating Yaridovich, since I have to visit the Elder's house then, which would mean I can pick and choose which frog coins to get and include the ones in the Sea.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
I on the other hand have made no progress at all. Real life plus this computer doesn't like things that sync. I'll try later on a faster computer with more ram.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Former player
Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria
OmnipotentEntity wrote:
I on the other hand have made no progress at all. Real life plus this computer doesn't like things that sync. I'll try later on a faster computer with more ram.
I have a computer with 64MB RAM and everything works perfect ;]
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
Then why isn't it working? ;_;
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2623
It seems that the Land's End shortcut is a dead end. I've tried forcing myself into the treasure chest using the enemy. I've tried forcing myself on top of the enemy using the wall, and the spring platform. (Heck, I even defeated the Shysters to see if anything happened. It didn't, they just respawn when you reenter...) I'mma try to get my hands on a Japanese version to see if it makes a difference. Even if I were able to scale the cliff (which I still think is doable), and I can get around the barrels (not sure if they even block you), I wouldn't think that they'd allow you to exit through the other path in that room. (Seeing as they cut off the the one southeast of the spring).
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Joined: 9/29/2004
Posts: 39
Alright, I haven't been very motivated to make much progress in the past couple weeks, ever since getting frustrated in my test run against Smilax - I thus far haven't been able to find a really "nice" way of defeating Smilax. However, I was searching the net and I found a rumor that seems interesting: http://s3.invisionfree.com/The_SMRPG_Legacy/index.php?showtopic=370 This is the ONLY place on the net I have found report of this particular "glitch." According to people on that thread, if you are "around level 18-19", are "up to nimbus land" and have not yet beat Jinx, then "go and vs jinx" and "lose on purpose". Then you will automatically level up to level 29. At first glance I dismissed that as being made up, but I'm intrigued at the possibilities for a speed run if it WAS possible. In my test run, when I fought Jinx at level 13 the first time I got to Monstro Town and lost on purpose, nothing abnormal happened, however, I have not tested this further. Has anyone heard anything like this? Anyone want to try it out with different combinations of character levels, ways to lose to Jinx (i.e. on the first, second, or third battle) and at different points throughout the game (just after arriving at Monstro Town, just after arriving at Nimbus Land, just after arriving at the volcano, etc).
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
I've decided to take up this game. Here's a movie up to the defeat of the Hammer Bros, made with the newly improved snes9x (v3) found here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1816 Check the 1st, 2nd, and 4th boxes under emulator sync settings for correct playback. This isn't a test movie so comments are welcome.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Questions: * Why do you jump on bowser once? Doesn't that waste time? You can be done with the fight before the princess even tells you to aim for the chain. * Why don't you time your attacks sometimes? Is this for lag or luck manipulation purposes? * Why do you get the mushroom box and jump on the 3 goombas? I would think punching them is faster, but even if it isn't, if you don't waste the FP jumping on them then you don't need to waste time accessing the menu to use a flower tab to restore your FP before the hammer bros fight.
Player (104)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada
nitsuja wrote:
Why don't you time your attacks sometimes? Is this for lag or luck manipulation purposes?
Timed attacks (double-attacks, if I could say so) take more frames and are uneeded earlier in the game since the enemies die from a single hit. Timed attacks would simply be longer, and in a time-attack, speed is the key.
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2004
Posts: 142
About the jumps: every time Jump is used its power increases. I was able to charge it up just barely enough to save a turn in the Hammer Bros. fight by pulling off two 25 (total HP of Hammer Bros. is 50) to the one that used valor up. I don't time the hits unless necessary, because of the delay. Here is a new movie up to the entrance of Kero Sewers (with save states). This is the only time I plan to spend so much time leveling up...the rest of the game I will attempt to run through as fast as possible, using super stars to gain levels and gathering enough frog coins for the Exp.Booster.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1300)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
I think some timed attacks (like punching) only look slower but actually take exactly as long as non-timed, but I guess that doesn't apply to jumps. (But if they really take longer, why do you time them on those 3 goombas? Surely a regular jump kills them too.) But I didn't know about jump attacks getting stronger the more you use them, shows how much I know...
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