Honestly, I feel we could do a better job of utilizing timeouts on discord as well. Still feels like we're stuck in all or nothing mentalities.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
I would like to make a comment on the issue of game bans and the judgement of what games should or should not be permitted.
Per the rules:
In keeping with our Site Rules for user conduct, we strictly disallow games that promote targeted harassment, violence, and bigotry towards specific individuals and/or groups. This generally only applies to unlicensed and homebrew games, though some older official releases may fall under this if the depicted content is graphic enough.
Obviously the final sentence leaves room for interpretation, but I wanted to make sure that the rules at least attempt to make clear the lines between offensive content that might require a content warning and content that deserves an outright ban, and where it lies on the moderators’ and administrators’ discretion. For example (THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT FOR OR AGAINST THESE SPECIFIC GAMES NOR ATTEMPTING A DIRECT COMPARISON OF THEIR CONTENT), Hong Kong 97, a bootleg game that was intentionally made to be awful, was recently banned for its depiction of genocide of Chinese people. Pico’s School, an early Flash game about a school shooting that also features various offensive stereotypes, was used as a springboard for the introduction of content warnings, and the biggest reason for a submission of it being rejected was its optimization, not the game’s content, which was subject to debate in the submission’s discussion. The Classroom, another Flash game, depicts suicide, abuse, and also a school shooting specifically as an act of revenge against a teacher. It was published with a content warning. There are other examples, like Alien Hominid having fat-shaming, Tom Sawyer (the Square game for NES) having blackface, etc., so there needs to be a clearer message as to what is considered “promotion of unacceptable content that warrants a game to be prohibited” and what is considered “content to be given a warning for”. We cannot and should not give the idea to people that the moderation of offensive content in games that are TASed is arbitrary.
Obviously, this is a very difficult problem to square! Everyone reacts to certain content differently, which is why the content warnings were established in the first place. I just wanted to give my input in the hopes that it shapes future decisions. I hope that I’ve established that I’m not trying to approach this in bad faith or in a way that makes it appear as if I’m complaining about a particular game being banned or not banned or criticizing any specific moderation decisions.
I understand there may have been discussion of this nature when the HK97 retraction was made, I just didn’t want to necropost on that when this thread specifically about moderation was made now.
I would like to make a comment on the issue of game bans and the judgement of what games should or should not be permitted.
Per the rules:
In keeping with our Site Rules for user conduct, we strictly disallow games that promote targeted harassment, violence, and bigotry towards specific individuals and/or groups. This generally only applies to unlicensed and homebrew games, though some older official releases may fall under this if the depicted content is graphic enough.
Obviously, this is a very difficult problem to square! Everyone reacts to certain content differently, which is why the content warnings were established in the first place. I just wanted to give my input in the hopes that it shapes future decisions. I hope that I’ve established that I’m not trying to approach this in bad faith or in a way that makes it appear as if I’m complaining about a particular game being banned or not banned or criticizing any specific moderation decisions.
I understand there may have been discussion of this nature when the HK97 retraction was made, I just didn’t want to necropost on that when this thread specifically about moderation was made now.
This is very interesting, it makes a lot of sense and i had not thought about it... There are a handful of games where these experiences are being told about and it's not necessarily a work of hate, just the presentation of real situations that exist. I'd also like for TASVideos to not lose content for these games even though they might be kinda stupid games.
Separately, I'd also like to voice some concern about how trigger happy the Staff seems with the bans or at least with the threats of them. It feels like complaining about bad practices or handling of situations are considered insults to people, when they're not. If you're gonna equate complaining about your behavior to calling you names, i feel like you become incapable of receiving criticism. While I haven't been banned, i've felt like some could have abused this against me when i voiced my complaints.
The worst part is not feeling safe to write this and having to constantly rewrite in the hopes of not angering someone for using the wrong expression.
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto.
TAS i'm interested:
Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS?
i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Separately, I'd also like to voice some concern about how trigger happy the Staff seems with the bans or at least with the threats of them. It feels like complaining about bad practices or handling of situations are considered insults to people, when they're not. If you're gonna equate complaining about your behavior to calling you names, i feel like you become incapable of receiving criticism. While I haven't been banned, i've felt like some could have abused this against me when i voiced my complaints.
The worst part is not feeling safe to write this and having to constantly rewrite in the hopes of not angering someone for using the wrong expression.
Can you provide any examples where moderation has done this?
EDIT: From my personal view, moderation has definitely gotten more strict compared to where it was 5+ years ago, but I'm not sure it's necessarily strict compared to the internet at large. TASVideos 5+ years ago had users trying to take things into their own hands when they saw behavior that they felt was inappropriate or just lots of heated arguments. Staff itself is more heavily moderated compared to where it was years ago as well.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
While I haven't been banned, i've felt like some could have abused this against me when i voiced my complaints.
If any staff member abused their position to dish out unfair bans, they would be immediately removed from staff. Yes it's technically possible for a single moderator to ban any user arbitrarily, but the rest of us would not sit idly by and let it happen if it was done without sufficient justification.
KusogeMan wrote:
The worst part is not feeling safe to write this and having to constantly rewrite in the hopes of not angering someone for using the wrong expression.
I appreciate the thought you've put into your post. During situations in which we end up banning someone, there is often a similar kind of period in which we thoroughly discuss the steps that should be taken and what precisely should be said. Especially in more difficult situations, we will even post full drafts of how we wish to address someone and ask for others to review it and offer suggestions before finally sending it. This helps ensure we're all aware of how we're going to move forward, and helps ourselves to ensure we're getting our thoughts across in a clear and decisive way.
It's also worth noting that in more obvious cases of spam, homo/transphobia, hate speech, etc. there may not be any discussion before the ban since it's immediately clear it's not acceptable and should be dealt with swiftly.
This thread is for people, acting in good faith, to raise questions or concerns about how we moderate. If a person's intent is to sew ill-will towards us or to drum up vague/false claims to further their own agenda, then we will take appropriate action against them. Otherwise if the intent is to be constructive then we're fine with receiving criticisms. With that in mind, having specific examples would go a long way in being able to address your concerns.
