I'm totally against this way of beating woodfall temple, because it rips the "WTF" of leaving woodfall temple and watching the fairy cutscence isn't really interesting.
While it's less "WTF", it will still be done if it's faster. No time will be sacrificed for the sake of "entertainment" in this run. :)
ok, then I'll write the explosive route now ;)
I think, we should keep using my deku palace strat. the one with the extra hovers isn't really faster, because it uses 4 bombchu hovers or 2 ones, if you use my trick to turn around and a sidehop to grab the ledge, but this would force us to activate ISG a second time
zora jump should be the best choice here
GBT is a good first temple, because all we need are a few bombs and bombchus to beat it
Yeah but since it only takes a few chus it's also a good temple to stick in a spot where we have explosives left over anyway. I'm not saying that we are going to need it. I'm just saying we can now if we do need it.
I doubt, that woodfall in one trip saves that much time. all it skips are 2 SoS, what are 45 seconds or something + flying over to the temple.
so let's compare it:
woodfall in 2 parts: 55 seconds
cutscence: 38 seconds
It also skips the entrance hall and hovering over that gap again (or taking the ladder). So I'm pretty sure it saves more time than you listed here. ;)
Keep in mind you also have to switch in the deku maks again, equip it, yadda yadda. That adds up.
Mukki takes about 35 seconds to get to the room where we would do the bosskey skip. Add to that 10 seconds for hovering over the gap or activating and climbing the ladder and the two SoS (38 seconds) you are at 1:23.
Now if we say that Mukki wasn't the fastest and add the way back from the Lizzard-room we are still more than 30 seconds faster.
17 seconds saved. another SoS to get bombchus is definately not worth, because that would make it slower. if we use bomb hovers to have more bombchus for the skip, this would reduce the saved time a lot.
I also highly doubt, that we have enough explosives.
If we only need to substitute 2 chus with bombs that's a maximum of 8 seconds lost. Still comes out far ahead.
I'm totally against this way of beating woodfall temple, because it rips the "WTF" of leaving woodfall temple and watching the fairy cutscence isn't really interesting.
That wtf is gone anyway, since everybody knows Mukkis run. It will be more wtf if we do it in one go. ;)
And it should save more than 30 seconds. That's quite a lot.
I don't think you can damage the aliens without the bow and it won't be late enough for the ranch anyway, even if you fast foreward time as soon as the cycle starts.
And you need the ranch bottle to do the fortress. Otherwise you'll have to do it 4 times. o.O
I'm beginning to think Woodfall in 1 part is faster. We lose:
-38 seconds from the cutscene
-4 bomb timers over bombchus (probably entering the fairy fountain, hovering onto the small fence in the Deku Palace, and perhaps starting the first FFWW with a bomb hover staircase and then using a single bomb hover? Is this possible? These would all incur the least time loss)
-An extra bomb timer doing the Woodfall Boss Key Skip
-The time to go from the Bow chest to the Boss Key skip platform
-The ESS in the Lost wood
-The time taken to collect 10 more bombs (probably when we're collecting the 10 before the ranch)
But we gain:
-1 Song of Soaring (Woodfall -> CT -> North Bay -> CT -> Ikana vs Woodfall -> CT -> North Bay -> Woodfall -> CT -> Ikana)
-The time to go from the owl to the Boss Key Skip Platform
-7 less bomb timers from having 7 extra chus to use over bomb hovers/bomb recoil flips
-Not needing to get the bomb drop before STT
It's alot closer when you use just one less Song of Soaring. It still seems a bit faster, though
I don't even think that we need to substitute this much chus with bombs. For example in the Dekupalace we will just use a bomb, that only costs us a few frames and through the megaflip in the FFWW we also save one chu.
Well let's wait until MrGrunz is through with the bomb route. Right now it's a little speculative...
Btw. we gain two songs of soaring. We have to warp to and out of woodfall2.
hovering over the gap is not really faster in deku palace
we have zora mask equipped already at that point and bombchu hovering takes time as well.
remember:
every bomb hover takes 3 seconds ;)
this might the factor, why it isn't faster
I don't even think that we need to substitute this much chus with bombs. For example in the Dekupalace we will just use bomb, that only costs us a few frames and through the megaflip in the FFWW we also save one chu.
Normally at that point, we'd have 3 chus (1 used to get into North bay, 1 to enter the fountain, 13 to FFWW (as is required even with the megaflip), 1 to get onto the fence, and 1 to clear the first gap in Woodfall. Since the Woodfall Boss Key Skip takes 7 superflip hovers, we need to use 4 less chus, including, as you said, the hover onto the fence in the Palace. The other 3 would come from entering the fountain with a bomb and using a bomb hover staircase plus one normal bomb hover in the fountain to possibly bring it down to 11 chus. If that doesn't work, we need to bomb hover staircase into North Bay or skip a superslide. Then we'd reach the temple with 8 chus - 1 for the first gap and 7 for the boss key skip.
Slowking wrote:
Btw. we gain two songs of soaring. We have to warp to and out of woodfall2.
The warp out to Clock Town from Woodfall 2 would happen anyways after Great Bay Temple. Look at the Song of Soaring route I posted above.
I don't even think that we need to substitute this much chus with bombs. For example in the Dekupalace we will just use bomb, that only costs us a few frames and through the megaflip in the FFWW we also save one chu.
Normally at that point, we'd have 3 chus (1 used to get into North bay, 1 to enter the fountain, 13 to FFWW (as is required even with the megaflip), 1 to get onto the fence, and 1 to clear the first gap in Woodfall. Since the Woodfall Boss Key Skip takes 7 superflip hovers, we need to use 4 less chus, including, as you said, the hover onto the fence in the Palace. The other 3 would come from entering the fountain with a bomb, either bomb hovering and using a bomb hover staircase plus one normal bomb hover in the fountain to possibly bring it down to 11 chus. If that doesn't work, we need to bomb hover staircase into North Bay or skip a superslide.
Slowking wrote:
Btw. we gain two songs of soaring. We have to warp to and out of woodfall2.
The warp out to Clock Town from Woodfall 2 would happen anyways after Great Bay Temple. Look at the Song of Soaring route I posted above.
we skip 2 song of soarings.
woodfall 1 part:
we use one song of soaring to warp away from the temple after completing it
woodfall 2 parts:
one to warp away after bow, one to warp to woodfall again and one to warp away from woodfall
No, Azorae is right. Woodfall in 2 parts adds only 1 Song of Soaring.
Woodfall in 1 part: Warp out of Woodfall, Warp from CT to GB
Woodfall in 2 parts: Warp out of Woodfall, Warp from CT to Woodfall, Warp from Woodfall to GB
We deathwarp away from the bow.
Hmm I'm still a little confused about it. I think we would need 2 complete routes to settle this. But I'm pretty sure in the end it takes 2 SoS more to do woodfall in 2 parts.
How long does a death warp take btw? We would skip that one...
In the end, if it really only saves one SoS it brings both ways pretty close together. So if we don't want to time it out (and since we have to save Chus for the alternative that would take quite some time) we have to just pick one...
I've figured out, that the rock after the GB fences can drop bombs. it's ultra rare. I got 5 red rupees, but only one bomb drop!
this allows us to use more superslide and little speed tricks and woodfall in one go is definately possible now =)
- First Cycle
Collect 200 Rupees and Bank them, get Adult Wallet (200R)
- Second Cycle
SoDT when you are 9 and a half in-game hours away from the Ranch houses (Somewhere between the start of the cycle and equipping the Zora Mask)
Hit CT Owl, Withdraw 200R, Buy Bomb Bag + 20 Chus (70R) (20B) (20C)
ISG Slide to Great Bay area, ESS to Fence, Bomb Staircase over fence, Superslide to GB (16B) (19C)
Slide, ESS, Get 5 Bombs from Rock after Fences, Slide, Hit owl, get Zora Mask (19B)
Slide to South Bay, Flying Zora to Fountain (18B)
Bomb into Fountain, Wrong Warp to Ikana with Bomb Staircase, Slide to and Hit owl, get Bomb drop by tree, Recoil Flip down to River (18B) (8C)
Swim to Swamp, Go to Lost Woods, get 10 Rupees, ESS through Woods, get Bottle (17B) (80R)
Zora Slide to BigOcto, Kill BigOcto as Zora, sidestep through water to palace, Drink Red Potion (16B)
Get Sonata using old strat with Bomb Hover, Get SoS, Get 4 Deku Sticks, Enter Temple (13B) (8C)
Mega Flips past gap, Kill Lizarfos, Get Bow (11B) (7C)
ISG Slide to get OoB, 8 Mega Flips for Boss Key Skip, Kill Odolwa, Warp to CT (2B) (0C)
Buy 20 Bombchus, Leave to GB, Slide to Bush, Get 20 Bombs (20B) (20C)
Slide in front of Milk Road entrance, Kill Big Bird, Get 200 Rupees (19B) (200R)
We have now enough explosives to beat GBT, but afterwards not enough to beat STT or SHT. Any ideas?
I've figured out, that the rock after the GB fences can drop bombs. it's ultra rare. I got 5 red rupees, but only one bomb drop!
this allows us to use more superslide and little speed tricks and woodfall in one go is definately possible now =)
The skulltullas in Woodfall also drop bombs and they are directly on our way (they drop pretty much anything, arrows, bombs, blue rupees, green rupees).
So if it's just a question of having enough bombs in woodfall we can just kill one of those...
MrGrunz wrote:
SoDT when you are 9 and a half in-game hours away from the Ranch houses (Somewhere between the start of the cycle and equipping the Zora Mask)
If we do woodfall in one go we have to play it later, since the bosskey skip and Odolwa battle take game-time. But we can decide when we are going to play the song once everything else is plotted out.
the question is, what is the faster bomb drop
we have 10 bombchus or something left after GBT, so we can't do SHT or STT afterwards, but going to the town for just 10 bombchus would suck :/
Hmm well we don't have anything left that doesn't eat up explosives...
We could just use those Chus up. That will make a few hovers faster. Maybe it compensates us for the time we lost replacing Chus with bombs earlier to make "woodfall in one go" possible...
I mean if I remember correctly we save 2 seconds on every not-megahover (3 normal hovers instead of a megahover) and there are a few mega-hovers in the pirates fortress and GBT...
Hmm well we don't have anything left that doesn't eat up explosives...
We just could use those Chus up. That will make a few hovers faster. Maybe it compensates us for the time we lost replacing Chus with bombs earlier to make "woodfall in one go" possible...
I didn't replace any bombchus with bombs. just 2 bomb staircases and the bomb hover in Deku Palace, so the time lost is maybe one seond!
couldn't we do SHT before STT now?
I didn't replace any bombchus with bombs. just 2 bomb staircases and the bomb hover in Deku Palace, so the time lost is maybe one seond!
Well that's even better. If we use up the Chus we'll actually save time. ^^ Sorry that I didn't see it, I just had a very quick look over the route before posting. I should read more carefully.
couldn't we do SHT before STT now?
I think the problem is that we will have 50r to little to buy explosives if we do SHT before STT, since we had planed to shoot stuff after STT...
I'll go over 1-2 things in the route:
MrGrunz wrote:
Slide to South Bay, Flying Zora to Fountain (18B)
I don't think sliding does anything at this point. We come out of the water really near the entrance...
Edit: Oh sorry obviously I'm a little off today. You want to hit the owl before getting the Zora mask. Are you sure this is faster? Link swims REALLY slow.
MrGrunz wrote:
Get Sonata using old strat with Bomb Hover,
I think a good thing here would be to combine the old and the new strat. Meaning using a bomb out of ISS for the first hover, then use the zora mask to grab the ledge and then hover up to the platform. Once we are on the paltform we have to switch out items anyway and we could than drink the red potion. If we really get down to beeping, in the dirty water, it will only last for about 20 seconds, since we do the palace REALLY fast. That's totally exceptable. ^^
I wondered that, too, at first, but the answer is yes.
if we would go to PF after the owl, the other way would be faster
we need those 50 rupees because we buy 20 chus. if we would have left 10 chus, we would only need 10 chus and getting 10 rupees from somewhere shouldn't be too hard
on the other hand could we use those 10 chus for a few speed tricks and this should be cooler and faster than using them just to do SHT before STT
I wondered that, too, at first, but the answer is yes.
if we would go to PF after the owl, the other way would be faster
What is PF? ^^"
on the other hand could we use those 10 chus for a few speed tricks and this should be cooler and faster than using them just to do SHT before STT
I really think this is the best way to go.
This way we loose 4s at twinmold and the time we need to shoot the bird. But we gain hover time and not having to collect those 10r (I'll just trust your math, since I'm obviously not able to do any myself today XD )
PS: I did an edit to my post above shortly after you posted...
Edit:
Oh PF is pirate fortress, isn't it? Ok if you timed it and it's faster this way, that's good to know. I never would have thought about it...
