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Posted: 1/9/2006 5:24 AM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Hopefully I can get people interested in this one. Before you attempt to just make this a carbon copy of Quietust's Sonic 2 run, there's a few important strat changes with Knuckles. (Note that these videos are recorded at full speed.) Firstly is Chemical Plant 2. This is a simple one which with re-recording should go to about 31 seconds. Secondly, and my favourite, Hill Top 1. This has plenty of potential - I'd guess at about 30 for this one. Furthermore, Knuckles is slightly disadvantaged in Mystic Cave 2 in that he can't make a certain jump - can't think of any other obvious jump-based disadvantages at the moment.
Posted: 1/9/2006 5:30 AM
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NrgSpoon
Joined: 6/14/2004
Posts: 646
Knuckles might have an advantage to getting Chaos Emeralds, since unlike Sonic, he doesn't lose his rings after entering the special stage.
I like my "thank you"s in monetary form.
Posted: 1/10/2006 2:11 AM
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Mr._Pwnage
Joined: 6/6/2004
Posts: 223
Even with the ability to enter multiple special stages with only one stockpile of rings, those special stages take a long time--I'd estimate 10 minutes. No amount of extra speed is going to overcome that. I know that the next version of Quietust's run is going to use a path Knuckles can't copy in Oil Ocean 2. Sonic can only just get the required height at one point by making a frame-perfect jump, before one of the sinking elevators gets any lower to make the required jump height too large to clear. I seem to remember the ceiling being solidified for the big springboard path-change in Aquatic Ruin 2, so that might also need rerouting.
Posted: 1/11/2006 12:08 AM
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Quietust
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250
Mr. Pwnage wrote:
I know that the next version of Quietust's run is going to use a path Knuckles can't copy in Oil Ocean 2. Sonic can only just get the required height at one point by making a frame-perfect jump, before one of the sinking elevators gets any lower to make the required jump height too large to clear.
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to - in my improved Oil Ocean 2 route, all of my maximum-height jumps are there simply for distance (such that the jump start position is optimized so I land in the right place).
* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
Posted: 1/22/2006 7:37 AM
Post subject: Knuckles in Final Boss
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Wolfman2000
Joined: 1/22/2006
Posts: 31
From what I've seen you guys say about the final boss on S2&K, you guys mostly wait for Robotnik to land after his jumps to hit him. I've actually been able to hit him during other phases when I had the original games. While standing still normally, the spiked hands block the body. However, when he bends down to jump up, he lowers himself JUST enough to hit him with a near pixel-perfect (or frame-perfect) jump. Figured that would help for whoever handles the TAS.
Posted: 1/22/2006 5:37 PM
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OmnipotentEntity
He/Him
Player (36)
Joined: 9/11/2004
Posts: 2630
?? In the currently published run Quietust kills Robotnik before he leaves the ground the first time.
Build a man a fire, warm him for a day, Set a man on fire, warm him for the rest of his life.
Posted: 1/22/2006 7:27 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Wait, are we talking about Sonic the Hedgehog 2 or Sonic 2 and Knuckles?
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 1/22/2006 7:45 PM
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Quietust
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250
It is most certainly possible for Sonic to defeat Robotnik before he launches away - my run is conclusive proof of that. However, it might not be possible to do it using Knuckles, as he can't jump as high - not only would he likely miss the final jump (Sonic needs to jump as high as possible in order to land the final hit before Robotnik takes off), but he might not be able to jump over the [lethal] jetpack flame in the back to land hits as quickly as possible.
* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
Posted: 1/22/2006 8:54 PM
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Wolfman2000
Joined: 1/22/2006
Posts: 31
Sorry; I was talking Sonic 2 & Knuckles. I forgot about running to the back and attacking from there though. If Knuckles can attack from the back, there is your fast method there. Otherwise, take my advice and be more bold with the attacking (try attacking when he bends down to rocket up).
Posted: 1/26/2006 1:41 AM
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Nightcom
Former player
Joined: 3/24/2004
Posts: 248
Location: West 81st Street
Wolfman, I gotta ask.. Do you play O2Jam?
Posted: 1/26/2006 5:40 AM
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Hero_Chaos_Chao
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 18
Location: Australia
i worked on this a little bit with hill top act 1 i got it done in 34 seconds the reason i didnt go on the lower route at the start and spindash my way to the first snake tunnel is because knux cant jump as far as sonic thus wasting time http://www.geocities.com/kikpantsoff/ks2.zip
Posted: 1/26/2006 12:35 PM
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mike89
Active player (304)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
Nice work. I'm surprised my way which I used solely for the purpose of ease turned out quicker though. Might it be a little quicker to charge a spindash on the second seesaw in the ascent (in other words, the only one you take) and release it before the glide onto the loop?
Posted: 5/22/2006 2:24 AM
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IMPblackbelt
Joined: 6/19/2005
Posts: 180
Ok, this is the truth behind the Sonic and Knuckles cart mystery. Sonic 1 was done too early to even begin thinking about doing any S&K coding. That and the pallete problem nixed the project. Somewhere during the production of Sonic 2 was when they began thinking about S&K. The lock-on idea was fairly new, and they barely had ANY details of the game itself, so they added some last-minute skeleton code for the lock-on to work. There isn't anything special-made for the two games combined, except for maybe a few added boxes here and there. Oh, and the fact that going into a special stage doesn't wipe Knux's rings afterwards. The cost theory is correct; it would cost too much to go back and rework the coding for Sonic 1 to include the lock-on technology code, even if it's a simple skeleton code like they did for Sonic 2. Anyway, in order to beat the final boss with Knux, you have to attack him from behind, just like in Quietust's run. It's faster, anyway. EDIT: It might not be possible to kill him the first time around, though, due to Knux's natural jumping deficiency.
Posted: 5/22/2006 3:17 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
I thought there was an extra chip found in the S&K cart that takes over main processing when Sonic 2 is locked onto it, with data taken from the Sonic 2 cart. IMPBlackBelt, where did you hear your info from?
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 5/22/2006 3:20 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
JXQ wrote:
I thought there was an extra chip found in the S&K cart that takes over main processing when Sonic 2 is locked onto it, with data taken from the Sonic 2 cart.
What he said doesn't seem to conflict with that.
Posted: 5/22/2006 4:14 AM
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IMPblackbelt
Joined: 6/19/2005
Posts: 180
It was an interview from someone on the team... Anyway, it doesn't conflict. In fact, the S&K cart has nothing to do with the properties of Sonic 2's coding. The game to be locked onto still has to have some sort of code to recognize the S&K cart to work... Oh, and the glitch in Chemical Plant 2 only works for Knuckles because of a slight difference with the way tile layering works. See if you can take advantage of that in other places.
Posted: 7/7/2006 4:52 AM
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Aitamen
Joined: 9/29/2005
Posts: 46
Location: Denver, CO
Ok, has anyone actually started work on this, yet? Also, for he who was talking about AR2K, what pathchange are you speaking of? The human-played top path of Knux can almost break the TAS for Sonic, thus rendering the bottom ineffecient. I can finish AR2K in :39, with others proving :40 and :41, while, as stated before (and I think it remains) the fastest Human AR2 was :43. Knux can indeed defeat 'botnik by using the intended, frontal method (hitting him when he lands was the only "intended" way to injure him, originally). Also, though, I think, maybe (though doubtable) that Knux can Superglide from the next-to-last-hit to pick up the 12th hit to end the game. If I do undertake this project, I'll not be using the Boss glitch, even though it could save nearly a full minute, because it is too unpredictable, and it is not yet understood how to replicate such. If I do undertake this project, unless I am constrained from doing so, I intend to complete four(!) versions. First, a pure speedrun, focusing on individual level speed, then, a pure speedrun focusing on pure total time (which only changes 2 levels), then a level-speed-post-EH-Emerald run (all emeralds before CP, then fastest per-level from then on), and finally, the fastest completion run I can manage, which will involve testing to see where the emeralds are the easiest to find, and easiest to do. I now begin my quest... wish me luck! P.S. to the above. No, the reason the glitch works in CP2 (noted because it's possible with Sonic and Tails, in a way) is because of Knux's jump-angle off of slopes...
"If any man is not free, then I too, am a small pie made of chicken"
Posted: 12/3/2006 7:40 PM
Post subject: Sonic2 and Knuckles: Chemical Plant Act 2 on 1min4sec
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Mr_Sweed
Joined: 10/11/2006
Posts: 76
Location: Göteborg/Sweden
Hello everone. I have made a speed run of Sonic2k. And i think it's possible to clear that stage with knuckles under 1min. i got 1min4sec and i start from the begining. Hope you guys enjoying this run. I used this rom:Sonic and Knuckles & Sonic 2 (W) [!] and have a nice evening. =) //DMTM http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/3013/Sonic2k%20Chemical%20Plant%20Act%202%201min4sec.gmv
I'm not a speed runner, but a game lurker, that's my contribution to the scene. =)
Posted: 12/3/2006 10:39 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
That's unimpressive considering that the unassisted record for that level is 33 seconds.
Posted: 12/3/2006 11:06 PM
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Quietust
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 7/14/2004
Posts: 250
Plus, it appears that you didn't use a single rerecord. This isn't SDA or TwinGalaxies - you're expected to fully use the capabilities of the emulator to rewind the game and record it in slow motion to get it perfect.
* Quietust, QMT Productions P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another
Posted: 12/3/2006 11:09 PM
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moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Also, what's the deal of creating a new topic for each little movie? Every game has its own topic.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 12/3/2006 11:52 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
NES TAS of 2008 Speedy TAS of 2008 SNES TASer of 2007 TAS of 2007 SNES TAS of 2007 Funny TAS of 2007
Well at least this one wasn't a hacked game trying to deceive us.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 2/14/2010 4:41 AM
Post subject: GGheysJr
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GGG
Banned User
Joined: 12/11/2009
Posts: 57
Location: USA
I'm doing a TAS of Knuckles in Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Here you have the time and the TAS (until now they control a portion of the TAS) Emerald Hill 1: 0:18 Emerald Hill 2: 0:36 Chemical Plant 1: 0:21 Chemical Plant 2: 0:33 Click here Rules that I have failed to read regarding ROM posting Enjoy MOD EDIT: Strike 1.
Posted: 3/26/2010 9:33 PM
Post subject: Problems with knuckles in sonic 2
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SonicGenisis
Joined: 3/26/2010
Posts: 9
For some reason when i play knuckles in sonic 2 when i finish Hill Top zone act 2 it restarts the game lol -.-'. Oh and when playing as knuckles there is a certain route on aquatic ruin (one of the underwater routes) where a column/pillar appears that is too tall for knuckles to jump over causing you to either drown or backtrack.
Posted: 3/27/2010 12:14 AM
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MarbleousDave
He/Him
Player (13)
Joined: 9/12/2009
Posts: 1559
There is a difference in the bonus stages, the rings collected before entering the bonus stage are carried over to after leaving the bonus stage, which you can get all the Chaos Emeralds faster. You can even get all 7 Chaos Emeralds in one zone (most notably Emerald Hill Zone)
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