Topic by Mukki

Posted: 8/10/2007 9:46 AM

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Mukki

Skilled player (1090)

Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom

Although I've been pretty quiet on this thread I have been following for a long while. This is shaping up to be one of the most entertaining movies I've seen. Keep it up! I can't wait to see more.

http://tasvideos.org/Mukki.html

Posted: 8/10/2007 11:37 AM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Swaff has discovered a trick on Surface two where the 3rd cam can be shot through the trees, saving another at least two seconds on the level. The guys over at the-elite have had plenty of good suggestions to improve Bunker 2 a little bit as well. But, I've been thinking. Of starting over. However, that's not something I want to do right now despite the fact that I could use 2.3 when starting over. On levels I've already done, this saves a bit of time on Bunker 1 at very least. And more time on later levels as well. Facility can be improved a second, with a better Objective A door. Frigate may be improvable with better hostage manipulation (though I did already spend about three weeks on the level). Dam, Runway, Surface 1, and Silo may be able to be cut by a few frames each, though ingame time is likely maxed. With the new TAS input plugin that wasn't available when I started the current run, I wouldn't need to pause of of Dam at the beginning to change control styles. While my current run is pretty damn optimized within itself, there's enough room for improvement to warrant starting over. This is not something I want to think about doing right now. Mainly, because doing all those levels over again, especially once I've gotten through the two most tedious to TAS, would just be murder on my morale. Plus, I'd like to wait for a newer version of Mupen rerecording, where the sky isn't quite so fucked up. What I'm suggesting I do, is just complete this run as is. Submit it for the hell of it. Then, take a brief break before starting over and doing the perfect run, on a better emulated graphics plug-in. In this case, I would skip over the recently discovered improvements on B2 and S2 to give us all something fresh to watch, and the first full TAS of the game. Then with my planned improvement, we'd have something to compare it to and really see how much was improved. Comments? Questions? Suggestions? I'll wait a couple days before making a final decision on this.

Posted: 8/10/2007 12:05 PM

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antd

Joined: 3/18/2006
Posts: 971
Location: Great Britain

sounds good.

Posted: 8/10/2007 12:53 PM

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Dromiceius

Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332

I agree. I watched the WIP earlier, and am looking forward to a published video... with or without all that crap in the sky.

Posted: 8/10/2007 12:59 PM

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Wyster

Active player (302)

Joined: 9/2/2006
Posts: 504

I don't think those improvements are enough to redo the entire run. In fact, it would be kind of wierd to do it all over again now when you've gotten so far. I mean, the levels are incredibly optimized already, And improvements can definately wait til the next run(LOL if you do all those stuff now then there wont be any improvement runs :P). Anyways, I'd say continue with Statue like planned, If you wanna redo from Surface that's fine too but not really necessary. No matter what you decide to do it'll still be one of the most awesome TAS'es ever.

Posted: 8/10/2007 6:16 PM

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SwordlessLink

Active player (490)

Joined: 1/12/2007
Posts: 682

I have a suggestion for Dam: Shoot the padlock on the door earlier. I'm sure it's possible to shoot it, and just open the door and breeze through in one non-stop movement.

Posted: 8/12/2007 9:26 AM

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Ersatz

Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State

if you start over i would have to choke a kitten

Posted: 8/12/2007 10:33 AM

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tool23

Player (79)

Joined: 2/8/2005
Posts: 130

I say keep going!! If you go through and finish it you will have that much more experience with the later levels and the redone version will be better than if you start over now.

Posted: 8/13/2007 1:22 AM

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Inzult

Active player (422)

Joined: 9/27/2004
Posts: 650
Location: Canada

Rising Tempest wrote:

...complete this run ... Submit it ... take a ... break ... better emulated graphics plug-in

Hi Jack. I've taken the liberty of optimizing your post.

Posted: 8/14/2007 4:16 AM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Excellent summary Inz. And here's the Statue level Youtube link A second faster than a TAS done by Henrik some time ago due to a slight route change. Those of you prone to motion sickness may wish to close your eyes during the Valentin "strafe" (though it is more of a lean in this vid).

Posted: 8/17/2007 2:31 AM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Archives level. -Copied from the-elite.net- Archives finally done... I had five desyncs throughout the level and took some time to clean it up. The time is a dissappointment for sure, but I can't see it being improved without a faster slap in the first room, which seems to require 2.3 control style. I did try waiting out both cinemas and see if it would allow me to slap sooner but it doesn't. For those of you who haven't seen Henrik's 54, he is able to slap the guard without any delay. This seems to be because he did a slap during the cinemas, using 2.3 control style. Despite all my sweet box boosts, warps, and a little time saving trick on the Mishkin dialogue (only 8 frames, from the lite pause), this only ties the WR and I am dissappointed. I'm really hoping someone here can spot a mistake I made that isn't the first room, so I can at least get a 54 before moving on... if not, oh well, it'll have to wait for the 2.3 run. (No m64 yet, I'll wait and see if the level can be improved first)

Posted: 8/17/2007 4:08 AM

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Sticky

Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota

It seemed your forward movement had to slow down/stop when you opened up the very last door just before jumping out the window. Is there any way you could get through the door faster? Also in that scene, is there any way to get out the window quicker than doing your zig-zag from the window frame to away from the window (so you could center yourself?) and then through the window? Those were the only parts I noticed that looked like they could be improved. If you are able to save a couple fractions of a second with the two improvements I suggested, you may be able to finish off the rest of the fractions if you could kill some lag, most noticable at 00:14.

adelikat wrote:

I very much agree with this post.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.

Posted: 8/17/2007 10:57 AM

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Wouter_Jansen

Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands

do the final box boosts actually save time? they look awkward. like I suggested before, I think you may be underestimating the "wallstrafing", not doing it soon enough before leaving the safe. one obvious: you can get the double door open where that lone guard is, just after getting Natalya. I think it only needs 2 shots after the corner just prior to opening 'her' door. after the first box boost, you do another late shot to get the guard to open the door, which seems like you don't get through smoothly. is the box boost worth it? see if it makes any difference to not do that pause at mishkin. and yea, you already know the glass part at the end wasn't good.

Posted: 8/17/2007 5:19 PM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Dam SA because Archives is pissing me off I'm out this weekend, won't get around improving Archives 'til late Sunday. Thanks for the suggestions to improve it, still seems like the main issue is getting a faster slap in the first room, or a faster Mishkin dialogue.

Posted: 8/23/2007 5:12 AM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Archives level finally done. No youtube available yet because the site is down for maintenance. If you really can't wait, check my AIM getfile. This is a 54. I'm tempted to call it frame perfect too given the unnecessary amount of time I spent on the level.

Posted: 8/23/2007 5:35 AM

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Ersatz

Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State

nice work I wish I could be more critical but all your videos seem to be played perfect.

Posted: 8/23/2007 7:28 AM

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Sticky

Joined: 2/26/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Minnesota

Beautiful! The door just before reaching Mishkin, it appears that you stalled for a few frames. Could you open the door any sooner? Aside from that, everything is vastly improved. Especially the last door and window. Nice work!

adelikat wrote:

I very much agree with this post.

Bobmario511 wrote:

Forget party hats, Christmas tree hats all the way man.

Posted: 8/23/2007 4:55 PM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Here's a youtube link.

Posted: 8/23/2007 10:59 PM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Streets!

Posted: 8/23/2007 11:17 PM

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Ersatz

Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State

streets already? what the Eff??

Posted: 8/23/2007 11:31 PM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Ersatz wrote:

streets already? what the Eff??

Levels without luck manipulation can take almost no time to do for me now. That's not entirely true, I spent 6 hours on this level today. Ah well.

Posted: 8/23/2007 11:32 PM

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hero_of_the_day

Player (88)

Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1057
Location: United States

well worth it I would say, it looked effin amazing.

They're off to find the hero of the day...

Posted: 8/24/2007 3:47 AM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

Depot TEST run. Despite how good it looks I didn't spend much time on it, this is a level I'm not overly familiar with and would like some feedback before I go back and improve it. The main issue is with the computer room, I had to take out the drone gun to prevent backboosts which A- slow me down a lot and B- prevent me from shooting for some seconds. This level can obviously be improved with 2.3, as you can shoot the screen, allowing me to focus on the mainframes from the get go. The speed after the weapons cache is irrelevant because the Objective completes at the last possible frame during the fadeout in which the time will be saved.

Posted: 8/24/2007 4:58 AM

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Ersatz

Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State

perhaps i've missed this earlier but could you explain the 2.3 glitch? and I'm sure so long as you don't destroy the turret gun in the mainframe room you could just shoot the mainframes several times without fully destroying them and by the time you leave that room the turret will have blown them up for you.... I've seen this technique used before. although i'm not fully sure if it would help or hurt your time. it also appears like you got hung up on the wall leaving the ammo room too

Posted: 8/24/2007 5:09 AM

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Rising_Tempest

Player (166)

Joined: 4/27/2006
Posts: 304
Location: Eastern Canada

2.3 lets me shoot during the cinemas (meaning I can destroy the screen before the level even begins). I'll try not destroying the turret, but only if I find a way to avoid the backboosts will it be faster I think. leave of the ammo room was slightly slow to manipulate 2nd explosion so the Objective completes. After that, all boxes are out of sight range so nothing I do affects them. The objective itself can probaly complete faster, but this is just a test run anyway, so I'll worry about that when the time comes. Won't be able to work on this until the weekend, but keep the ideas comin'