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Posted: 8/23/2006 7:40 AM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Ok Ok! I collect all mumbo tokens too :p and I think ice key and eggs have to collect too because it's not 100% if they are missed.
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 8/23/2006 8:02 AM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
Sami wrote:
and I think ice key and eggs have to collect too because it's not 100% if they are missed.
No. They were never intended to be collected. you can only get them with a gameshark, or by inputting debug codes that would take maybe 20 minutes to put them all in. I still think that it is unnecessary to transform if it saves time not to.
Posted: 8/23/2006 8:08 AM
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kwinse
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
I say go by SDA's 100%, which (iirc) didn't include the banjo tokens, because there was never any way of knowing if you got them all besides going off of personal knowledge. Also the ice key and eggs weren't included because there aren't any references to the codes needed within normal gameplay (again, iirc) and that you can only get them once without having to completely reset your cartridge (not that that restriction has much bearing on a TAS). Also, who really wants to see an extended period of you optimizing the entering of the codes?
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Posted: 8/23/2006 9:19 AM
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mike89
Active player (301)
Joined: 8/8/2005
Posts: 296
Location: NSW, Australia
I can't see why the Mumbo tokens are being included in 100%. After 75 they're totally useless, and if a viewer didn't know that there were exactly 115 (or whatever it is) then there'd be no way of verifying that the player actually got them all. Not to mention that'd mean taking the player to all ends of the map.
Posted: 8/23/2006 9:21 AM
(Edited: 8/23/2006 9:24 AM)
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
mike89 wrote:
I can't see why the Mumbo tokens are being included in 100%. After 75 they're totally useless, and if a viewer didn't know that there were exactly 115 (or whatever it is) then there'd be no way of verifying that the player actually got them all. Not to mention that'd mean taking the player to all ends of the map.
notes are useless after 886 I think..... even 6 honey combs are useless (no extra health added) VVV kwinse: I know, I'm just pointing it out.
Posted: 8/23/2006 9:21 AM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
Ok :) New plan: 100 Jiggies 900 Notes 24 Honeycombs 3 Cheato Books All Mumbo Tokens
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 8/23/2006 9:22 AM
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kwinse
Joined: 5/13/2006
Posts: 283
But notes and empty honeycombs are counted in the totals and one can easily find out if they've gotten all of them. Mumbo tokens just tell you how many you currently have. EDIT: @Sami Well, I don't really see the point of getting the tokens, but if you really feel you should get them, then I can't really stop you.
<Zurreco> if so called professional players cant adapt to every playing field, theyre obviously not that great
Posted: 8/23/2006 11:43 AM
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Burning_Death
Former player
Joined: 7/16/2004
Posts: 108
Location: Germany, Bremen
I say a 100% TAS should be counted as: 100 Jiggies 900 Notes 24 Honeycombs 3 Cheato Books The first 3 things are obvious by now I think and 3 Cheato books because it is an upgrade. For example: Super Metroid 100% TAS, where you need to get all missile containers to get the 100% ending :) .
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Posted: 8/23/2006 11:54 AM
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evilchen
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
mike89 wrote:
I can't see why the Mumbo tokens are being included in 100%. After 75 they're totally useless, and if a viewer didn't know that there were exactly 115 (or whatever it is) then there'd be no way of verifying that the player actually got them all. Not to mention that'd mean taking the player to all ends of the map.
in NES metroid there is a useless energytank too but in the 100% run it gets collected because its an item
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Posted: 8/23/2006 12:06 PM
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Burning_Death
Former player
Joined: 7/16/2004
Posts: 108
Location: Germany, Bremen
Another example by me :D : The yellow coins in Super Mario 64 vs the mumbo token in Banjo Kazooie. They are both needed until a certain amount, and there is no way of knowing how much are exactly in the game if you don't know about it or try to get all yourself. And why doesn't FODA collect all yellow coins for his 100% 120 stars run and just activates all 3 cap swtiches (similair to the 3 cheato books in BK)? It would be all fun to watch getting EVERYTHING but pointless for a 100% definition/run I would say.
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Posted: 8/23/2006 12:16 PM
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anubis
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 138
I agree with BD. The mumbo tokens should only be collected as needed. Getting all of them wouldn't make the run any more interesting, and not getting them all adds to the strategy - which mumbo tokens are the quickest to get? My vote is that 100% should go by the stuff totalled in the start menu.
Posted: 8/23/2006 12:40 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
New plan: :D 100 Jiggies 900 Notes 24 Honeycombs 3 Cheato Books I agree with you guys, Getting all of Mumbo Tokens wouldn't make the run any more interesting. Btw Cool avatar Burning Death. CC - Vile ;)
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 8/23/2006 1:09 PM
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evilchen
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
Burning Death wrote:
Another example by me :D : The yellow coins in Super Mario 64 vs the mumbo token in Banjo Kazooie. They are both needed until a certain amount, and there is no way of knowing how much are exactly in the game if you don't know about it or try to get all yourself. And why doesn't FODA collect all yellow coins for his 100% 120 stars run and just activates all 3 cap swtiches (similair to the 3 cheato books in BK)? It would be all fun to watch getting EVERYTHING but pointless for a 100% definition/run I would say.
arr damn ;P
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Posted: 8/23/2006 1:26 PM
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Sami
Former player
Joined: 8/20/2005
Posts: 643
Location: Mikkeli,Finland
I start a new run with nitsuja's TAS plugin. It's harder play but it looks smoother :) and hopefully that jump is easier.
Current Projects: ???
Posted: 8/23/2006 4:39 PM
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YautjaElder
Joined: 3/29/2006
Posts: 273
Location: Sweden
I just tought I'd ask... has it been tested if it is faster to backflip up onto the tree in spiral mountain? I seems faster than climbing to me...
Posted: 8/23/2006 4:46 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
kwinse wrote:
But notes and empty honeycombs are counted in the totals and one can easily find out if they've gotten all of them. Mumbo tokens just tell you how many you currently have.
Okay, then just remember that you should have 40 after buying all 5 transformations.
anubis wrote:
The mumbo tokens should only be collected as needed. Getting all of them wouldn't make the run any more interesting, and not getting them all adds to the strategy - which mumbo tokens are the quickest to get?
That sounds like an "any percent" type of strategy to me.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 8/23/2006 5:33 PM
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
Time-savers: Skip the Toll 8 in Rusty Bucket Bay. Simply jump from the water onto the slope and backflip to the platform with the orange jinjo. You can also save time by using this to get to the platform with the TNT crane instead of climbing up the rope. Local route: TNT crate -> Witch switch -> Orange jinjo -> Drop TNT crate.
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Posted: 8/23/2006 5:55 PM
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anubis
Joined: 5/29/2006
Posts: 138
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
That sounds like an "any percent" type of strategy to me.
It is an any percent strategy - just applied to a non-100% sort of item. Like in FODA's SM64 run with the gold coins. 100% of the gold coins in the game is not required for the 100% run. I don't think that Mumbo's token's are required for 100% - there is no good reason that I can come up with for getting them all.
Posted: 8/23/2006 6:00 PM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Active player (277)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Then it's not a 100% run, but a 120-star run.
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 8/23/2006 6:33 PM
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DK64_MASTER
Joined: 10/24/2005
Posts: 1080
Location: San Jose
Bag of Magic Food wrote:
Then it's not a 100% run, but a 120-star run.
I see no reason to attempt a 100% run that isn't well defined. Getting CLOSE to 100% (leaving out notes) gets you the best ending. IMO, that is 100%, as the game has nothing more to offer. So I'd say, aim for the best ending, as 100% is not really definable w/out a huge debate. Oh yeah, just for good measure, get all 1000 notes, and cheatos ;).
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Posted: 8/23/2006 10:35 PM
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Halamantariel
Player (104)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 562
Location: Québec, Canada
Just to add to the comparisons, my 100% Illusion of Gaia run doesn't collect herbs. They are items that are somewhat easily collectable, but they don't count in the 100% because they're totally useless. What defines 100% in that game is the red jewels which give access to more stuff (a secret dungeon). In my opinion, in Banjo-Kazooie, 100% should be all notes, jiggies, honeycomb pieces, and cheato books. Why the cheato books? Because they give access to more stuff (cheat codes). Although, I wouldn't mind if the books were excluded from this one... Does the 100% run on SDA collect cheato books? I don't think so... Just my 2 cents (and to add to the debate).
Posted: 8/23/2006 11:36 PM
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okiyama
Joined: 4/16/2006
Posts: 46
I think the banjo tooie run gets cheato pages(100%) or I may be remembering wrong.
Posted: 8/23/2006 11:46 PM
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Mitjitsu
He/Him
Banned User, Experienced player (532)
Joined: 4/24/2006
Posts: 2997
TAS of 2007 N64 TAS of 2007
There's no point in collecting Cheato books. When I watched the speedrun a little while ago the cheatos weren't collected. Although I think the eventual time will end up being somewhere around 2:30 on the in game clock. The simpliest way to put it is 100 jiggies 1000 notes 26 honeycombs It doesn't get anymore complicated than that. (Or does it)
Posted: 8/23/2006 11:47 PM
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bkDJ
Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215
it's 900 notes, and 24 honeycombs, I believe.
okiyama wrote:
I think the banjo tooie run gets cheato pages(100%) or I may be remembering wrong.
Those are collectibles kept track of on the subscreen, in every level. in BK, it's just a matter of speaking with a book in 3 different places.
Posted: 8/23/2006 11:57 PM
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JSmith
Joined: 8/1/2006
Posts: 428
bkDJ, when you jump out of the water and quickly hit B, you make a jump noise and get a quick boost forward. Is this quicker than normal surface swimming or jump-flapping? OT, I cleared Mumbo's Mountain including witch switch jiggy without turning into a termite. It took 15:40, mostly from errors in Ticker's Tower.
Trying 127.0.0.1... telnet: connect to address 127.0.0.1: Connection refused telnet: Unable to connect to remote host
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