Topic by Abahbob

Posted: 11/14/2012 9:55 PM

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Abahbob

Player (33)

Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island

Cronikeys wrote:

Also, it's impossible to beat the game like this on console.

Are you 100% sure that it won't be possible to save if done correctly?

IronSlayer wrote:

Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".

Seems legit.

Posted: 11/14/2012 9:57 PM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Abahbob wrote:

Cronikeys wrote:
Also, it's impossible to beat the game like this on console.
Are you 100% sure that it won't be possible to save if done correctly?

Using the only known way of playing the intro, it's impossible to save. A new method would need to be found in order for saving to work and this method would need to be console tested since emulators can do whacky things with save files.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 11/18/2012 11:39 PM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

While in BiT mode if you kill yourself on console the game doesn't crash (my idea and Abahbob tested it) -- making it possible to reach "The End" screen. I still don't know if I like the idea of beating the game when it isn't on a save file.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 11/18/2012 11:50 PM

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blahmoomoo

Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347

I still don't think the lack of saving the game would be frowned upon at all. It's the weird things like BiT that makes glitched out TASes entertaining, after all. If this glitch is crazy enough to skip almost everything, then it could be considered for the "glitched" category instead of "any%," even if an any% run doesn't exist yet.

<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.

Posted: 11/19/2012 12:00 AM

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Brian_pso

Joined: 10/30/2011
Posts: 146
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

^ This is a very good idea IMO

Posted: 11/19/2012 12:15 AM
(Edited: 11/19/2012 12:34 AM)

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

blahmoomoo wrote:

If this glitch is crazy enough to skip almost everything, then it could be considered for the "glitched" category instead of "any%," even if an any% run doesn't exist yet.

It's not. It would let you save like 18 extra jiggies (no need to pay for MMM or FP) and skip learning moves from Bottles. Following along the any% route, this would mean: SM -> back in time thing - > MMM -> hit water level switch -> MM -> TTC -> BGS -> FP -> CCW -> Reverse Bee Adventure -> CC -> GV -> RBB -> Furnace Fun -> end of the game 25 jiggies for any%, 23 jiggies for low% (you'd do BGS instead of CC) -- still 810 notes. I am strongly against including this. It's a time vs. entertainment tradeoff and shouldn't be included. The Banjo speedrunning community of SRL/SDA are very interested in gametime of this new any%, and this glitch where you beat the game through the intro screen doesn't allow for that.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 11/19/2012 12:16 AM

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blahmoomoo

Joined: 2/1/2008
Posts: 347

So you're saying that BiF doesn't save time? If that's so, it's a pity. Oh well.

<ccfreak2k> There is no 'ctrl' button on DeHackEd's computer. DeHackEd is always in control.

Posted: 11/19/2012 12:17 AM

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Abahbob

Player (33)

Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island

Cronikeys wrote:

blahmoomoo wrote:
If this glitch is crazy enough to skip almost everything, then it could be considered for the "glitched" category instead of "any%," even if an any% run doesn't exist yet.
It's not. It would let you save like 10 extra jiggies and skip learning moves from Bottles. Following along the any% route, this would mean: SM -> back in time thing - > MMM -> hit water level switch -> MM -> TTC -> BGS -> CCW -> Reverse Bee Adventure -> CC -> GV -> RBB -> Furnace Fun -> end of the game 33 jiggies for any%, 31 jiggies for low% (you'd do BGS instead of CC) -- still 810 notes. I am strongly against including this. It's a time vs. entertainment tradeoff and shouldn't be included. The Banjo speedrunning community of SRL/SDA are very interested in gametime of this new any%, and this glitch where you beat the game through the intro screen doesn't allow for that.

I don't want this glitch in this game. It's stupid bullshit..

IronSlayer wrote:

Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".

Seems legit.

Posted: 11/19/2012 12:57 AM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Actually this only saves 8 additional jiggies -- in order to press the water switch as pumpkin you need to have the gate outside of MMM open. Meaning you'd need to enter it twice. In addition, you'd have to sit through a lot of cutscenes (opening cutscene, first cutscene of Grunty's Lair potentially, potentially the gameover screen, the intro screen twice, and the demo up to MMM).

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 11/19/2012 1:33 PM

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ais523

Editor, Player (44)

Joined: 7/11/2010
Posts: 1022

If BiT isn't as interesting to watch, or has other problems, you can just categorise it out in your submission. (It'd make the run ineligible for the Vault, but that's OK, because it should be entertaining enough to be accepted in the main category.)

Posted: 11/19/2012 7:22 PM

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ALAKTORN

He/Him

Player (99)

Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy

Cronikeys wrote:

I am strongly against including this. It's a time vs. entertainment tradeoff and shouldn't be included. The Banjo speedrunning community of SRL/SDA are very interested in gametime of this new any%, and this glitch where you beat the game through the intro screen doesn't allow for that.

you know, it shouldn’t be that hard to do a RAM search for the game timer’s value and just write in the description of the movie what the final time is; it’s not like you need a graphic in the game to tell you your time when you have things like TAS edit: I think I misunderstood you, you meant that since the RTA community won’t be using the glitch, they don’t want TAS to use it either so they can compare?

Posted: 11/19/2012 9:05 PM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Ok, so I looked into this a lot over the past week or so along with r0bd0g, RingRush, and abahbob. Basically we think it was either hardware error (cartridge tilting, failure to reset a certain variable, etc.) or cheated/faked. Lots of the details in the persons' story don't line up with what actually happened (he said he was never in Spiral Mountain, but then he said he was; claimed he reset during a cutscene then changed it to during the gameover cutscene then said maybe he didn't reset; when the console crashed it took him a very long time to reset the console -- enough to remove a Gameshark cheating device). With the L to Levitate code it would have been as simple as holding L (which he claimed to be doing lol) and then letting go when you were high enough in MMM to take enough fall damage to kill yourself. There are dozens of videos showing exactly this on YouTube. I believe this is what happened. Does this mean BiT doesn't exist w/o cheats or hardware malfunction? No -- I have a solid lead on finding it in Rusty Bucket Bay's intro demo. However, I don't think what occurred to the person the other day was a glitch that can be replicated. -- In other news, I found a new way to clip in Banjo-Kazooie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hsbo_H5U7ZA It's probably possible in other places and might lead to a 765 note door skip.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 11/26/2012 5:40 AM
(Edited: 12/5/2012 4:52 PM)

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Here's a brain dump of some stuff Kirkq and I have been working on regarding the TAS. I will post more as we finish timing things. We are also determining which Mumbo Tokens will be skipped. Jiggies Skipped (57 total)

TTC - X Marks the Spot
BGS - Tiptup Choir
BGS - Feed Croctus
BGS - Vile*
FP - Race 1*
FP - Race 2*
FP - Jinjos*
FP - Christmas Tree
FP - Talk to Wozza*
FP - Find presents and give to Boggy's kids
MMM - Organ
GL - MMM Witch Switch
Two more can be skipped (see below)
CCW - All (10)
CC - All (10)
RBB - All (10)
GV - All (10)
GL - CCW, CC, and RBB Witch Switch (3)

*these jiggies will be skipped because the transformation that is required for them is skipped Still Being Timed Cutoffs: 1 jiggy = 30 seconds; 4 notes = 15~ seconds; 1 mumbo token = 3 seconds

GL - MM Witch Switch
~~MM - On top of Termite Mound~~
~~MM - Defeat Conga~~
~~MM - Feed Juju~~
TTC - Sandcastle
~~BGS - Defeat the Yellow Flibbits~~
~~FP - Beak Bombing The Giant Snowman's Buttons~~
FP - Beak Bombing the Sir Slush's Hats (30 Seconds, need hat for notes anyway)
~~MMM - Drop eggs into all the plant pots in the Church's graveyard~~
~~MMM - Nappa jiggy~~
MMM - Slider Minigame (borderline - 50 seconds, still get notes)
~~MMM - Inside Loggo the toilet~~
~~MMM - Bottom of the Well~~

Clanker's Cavern (RBA) - Rough Route

Notes by entrance
Notes on the way to Clanker's
Notes in underwater tunnel
Bottom part (go through key)
MUTANT CRABS
notes on top of clanker's
enter blow hole get notes and then go back toward camera
notes by teeth then peace out (of bounds) to notes underwater by side entry
fast movin' blades notes
leave on side by beehive
notes on vertical climbing pole
notes by honeycomb pieces area
area by tail
side compartments/alcoves
notes up near jiggy you reach by riding the blowhole
fly up out of bounds with all 100 notes

Estimated time: 3:30ish

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 11/27/2012 3:07 AM

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Chaperoni

Joined: 1/26/2012
Posts: 7

excuse me why isn't this finished yet this is unacceptable I'm calling my lawyer

Posted: 11/27/2012 3:14 AM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

I found this a while ago but decided to make a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id-0bCUXPHY I believe it's possible in other places and it might lead to an 810 note door skip if done off the cauldron at the right time (see the video's description for more info). I've sent the movie file for this to the people working on the any% tas with me, but here it is for anyone else who wants to check it out in MHS or whatever: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/118290/blt.rar I also found that the clip through the Twinkly box works in Gobi's Valley off Gobi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_GgOJcFZss I was able to retain flight once, but accidentally went back in bounds. This is extremely difficult and took thousands of attempts. It means you can get blue egg without cheats.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 12/1/2012 4:29 AM

Post subject: any% WIP (YouTube Video)

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Kyman

Editor, Active player (428)

Joined: 9/29/2008
Posts: 706
Location: Canada

Link to video

Live Streams

Posted: 12/1/2012 4:33 PM

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Vykan12

Player (98)

Joined: 3/20/2008
Posts: 466
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

13k re-records for ~2 mins 42 seconds of gameplay? This run is going to be AWESOME.

Posted: 12/1/2012 4:42 PM

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darkszero

He/Him

Joined: 7/12/2009
Posts: 181
Location: São Paulo, Brazil

The "never simply walk forward" never gets old.

Posted: 12/13/2012 5:40 AM

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AirmanRWP

Joined: 12/1/2008
Posts: 32

Damn, where was this guy 3 years ago? All these glitches are bad ass. Keep up the good work, looking forward to further progress in the any% run.

Of course we graduated cock, beer? ~ Joseph "Airman" Cooper from BASEketball.

Posted: 12/13/2012 11:33 AM
(Edited: 4/15/2013 5:35 PM)

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Here is a 99.99% finalized list of skipped jiggies in Any%:
TTC - X Marks the Spot
TTC - Sandcastle
BGS - Tiptup Choir
BGS - Feed Croctus
BGS - Vile*
FP - Race 1*
FP - Race 2*
FP - Jinjos*
FP - Christmas Tree
FP - Talk to Wozza*
FP - Find presents and give to Boggy's kids
MMM - Organ
MMM - Slider Minigame (borderline - 50 seconds, still get notes)
GL - MMM Witch Switch
CCW - All (10)
CC - All (10)
RBB - All (10)
GV - All (10)
GL - CCW, CC, and RBB Witch Switch (3)
*these jiggies will be skipped because the transformation that is required for them is skipped 57 jiggies will be skipped and 43 will be collected (✿◠‿◠) Kirkq timed a lot of things in order to decide on this list. This was the old route in which we went to CC instead of BGS as bee. Please see later posts for more information.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 12/13/2012 7:46 PM

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Dooty

Expert player (2582)

Joined: 6/2/2009
Posts: 1182
Location: Teresópolis - Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

AirmanRWP wrote:

Damn, where was this guy 3 years ago?

FTFY; Damn, where was this girl 3 years ago? In any case, she's doing great with all these glitches.

I am old enough to know better, but not enough to do it.

Posted: 12/14/2012 10:36 AM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

Synx wrote:

Are you female Cronikeys?

Yes. Also, so this post is on topic there's a new way to oob warp in CCW. I will wait a little bit before making a video in case I find any other clips -- trying to do compilation videos now since there are so many.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 12/15/2012 2:53 AM

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Cronikeys

Joined: 7/12/2011
Posts: 142
Location: Indianapolis

I made a video of that clip I mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMHaW3YJMI It's incredibly precise so I think it might have something to do with BK's model's angle while edge clipping or maybe even how zoomed out the camera is. That sounds silly, but the camera has been known to affect the precision of Banjo's z-position (if you look down while in first person on a honeycomb box you slide, if you got to first person while termite you move like 4 pixels down, etc.). Anyway, this has inspired me to look over some other things I've tested to see if I can get them to work trying various angles and camera positions. Also, I made save states in mupen after getting RBA (reverse bee adventure - escaping CCW lobby as bee to enter worlds without paying). Let me (or anyone on the TAS team) know and we can send them to you.

Current Projects: Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64, Bubsy II, Paper Mario: TTYD, Barbie (NES), Jinx (EU PSX) YouTube | Twitter | Twitch

Posted: 12/15/2012 6:00 AM

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bkDJ

Joined: 7/26/2006
Posts: 1215

That list above of jiggies to get looks great, though there are 2 bullet points for Grunty's Lair :P

Cronikeys wrote:

I made a video of that clip I mentioned: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFMHaW3YJMI It's incredibly precise so I think it might have something to do with BK's model's angle while edge clipping or maybe even how zoomed out the camera is. That sounds silly, but the camera has been known to affect the precision of Banjo's z-position (if you look down while in first person on a honeycomb box you slide, if you got to first person while termite you move like 4 pixels down, etc.). Anyway, this has inspired me to look over some other things I've tested to see if I can get them to work trying various angles and camera positions.

While going into / out of 1st person might trigger some odd Z-axis positioning or physics of the character, normally changing the 3rd person camera distance can change the LOD (Level of Detail) in 3D models, but that generally has nothing to do with collision and only to do with rendering. And on the subject of CCW clips, would getting bashed through the nest by Eyrie falling asleep help with anything if it were incorporated into a route? I'm guessing no, but throwing it out there anyway.

Posted: 12/16/2012 8:36 AM

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transientGrifter

Joined: 3/7/2011
Posts: 11

All the sudden recent activity in this thread got my attention, so I just went through your YouTube channel, Cronikeys. And holy crap, I'm enjoying watching this game being torn apart glitch by glitch. Keep it up!