Is the idea of skipping Varia saving time for any% or 100%? It's not obviously faster or slower in either context (of course in 100% you'd have to come back later but you need to do that in both cases due to Artifact of Wild).
Joined: 8/9/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Washington State
ais523 wrote:
Is the idea of skipping Varia saving time for any% or 100%? It's not obviously faster or slower in either context (of course in 100% you'd have to come back later but you need to do that in both cases due to Artifact of Wild).
it was avoided from what i can tell to get into the flaahgra fight coming in from out of bounds and essentially skipping the first 3 bomb segments. coming into the fight head on wouldn't allow the player to avoid this segment. It saves time.
Is the idea of skipping Varia saving time for any% or 100%? It's not obviously faster or slower in either context (of course in 100% you'd have to come back later but you need to do that in both cases due to artifact of Wild).
Currently for any%, idk if it would be useful for hundo.
This is what the varialess route would look like:
Go straight to Phendrana after getting X-Ray and the artifact of Chozo via magmoor varialess while collecting the artifact of Strength on this trip and an E-Tank:
Link to videoLink to videoLink to video
After getting boost ball, Wave beam and the artifact of Sun in Phendrana you have to do a 2nd and even longer trip through Magmoor to go to Chozo Ruins to collect the artifact of Nature.
Eventually this SW can come in handy to avoid double heat damage in one room:
Link to video
The next step is a pretty ugly bsj on a wasp to climb up suntower from the wrong side and skipping varia + supers:
Link to video
Doing so you also hit the trigger that changes the room layout of Sunchamber (the room with Flaahgra) to the ghost fight layer and you can get the artifact of Wild and since Lifegiver is also on the way you can collect that as well and then head towards Tallon Overworld and Magmoor and then do Far Phendrana and Mines just like in the other route.
The advantages of this route are:
1. You skip the flaahgra fight and some backtracking from X-Ray to it.
2. You also don't need to Collect Lifegiver after finishing Mines which cuts out some backtracking in the end.
The disadvantages:
1. You need to get many E-Tanks to survive the Magmoor trips.
It's confirmed that 2 E-Tanks are enough to survive the first trip and 3 should be sufficient if you want to include the artifact of strength on this trip (which you probably want to do since otherwise you would have to do it on the 2nd even longer trip).
You get another E-Tank at the end of magmoor though, which will also refresh energy, so we can try the 2nd trip with 4 E-Tanks, but we don't know yet if that is enough. If not we need 4 E-Tanks from Chozo Ruins and that's most cerntainly slower.
The potential E-Tanks one could get before entering Magmoor would be:
Main Plaza, Hall of the elders, Furnance, Transport Access North, maybe Hydro Access Tunnel
The first 2 are pretty quick, while the other 3 are sorta slow.
2. It still requires a backtrack to Chozo Ruins only after 1st Phendrana trip, because Lifegiver requires Wave Beam.
It really isn't clear which route is faster, so having something to compare with when testing the other route wouldn't be a bad idea.
Transport Access North sounds incredibly slow if you're doing a Tallon > Phendrana VMR. A more likely candidate is Training Chamber, currently I've only managed to collect it without Bombs if I have floaty jump active... but if some morph ball collision magic can be pulled off to flick the ball up the spider tack, then that tank very much fits into the route. I also wouldn't be surprised if a morph reposition SW is possible in Furnace using the Beetles to create a tight space, making the Etank there more an option. ...I'd rather not be the one to look into that garbage trick though.
Also, Ersatz I don't have much of an estimate. I believe sub :40 isn't out of the question though. Justin's :48 controller savestate run loses a lot of time over my TAS just on route alone, multiple minutes, plus my movement is far faster in general (something like 35 seconds faster on Frigate alone). The only issue with comparing the two is Justin made his run on a revision with faster loads, so in some rooms where movement before a load trigger isn't as important I might lose a couple seconds. An example would be the long load time before Ridley.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
Transport Access North sounds incredibly slow if you're doing a Tallon > Phendrana VMR. A more likely candidate is Training Chamber, currently I've only managed to collect it without Bombs if I have floaty jump active... but if some morph ball collision magic can be pulled off to flick the ball up the spider tack, then that tank very much fits into the route.
Yeah, Transport Access North is incredibly slow to the point where the route would end up slower than getting varia instead.
Also my bad for not counting in Traning Chamber, but well yeah we don't know any way to get that quickly in the route.
I also wouldn't be surprised if a morph reposition SW is possible in Furnace using the Beetles to create a tight space, making the Etank there more an option. ...I'd rather not be the one to look into that garbage trick though.
Interesting idea that should work on many other places as well if it works.
Regarding final time estimate:
It should be possible to sub 40, but another huge chunk could be saved if Exo skip is found, which only needs a secret world in phazon core and we have a few approaches on it.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
Well, a few casuals got something we call "Where's the room Glitch" in one of the rooms in Impact Creator, which appears to be a very random glitch though.
The glitch get's you into a room without the map transitioning, so the game actually thinks you are in a different room.
With that we can get infinite speed on a wall and then use that in some way to skip exo.
( I don't know the exact details for which triggers you want to hit/avoid with IS to make that work, but andy should know the specifics )
If we can replicate that, then we pretty much have exo skip confirmed.
Another possibility would be to just find a secret world (oob) in one of the rooms in Phazon Core, which might be possible with the use of Fission Metroids, where we have ideas, but no positive results yet.
Well, a few casuals got something we call "Where's the room Glitch" in one of the rooms in Impact Creator, which appears to be a very random glitch though.
The glitch get's you into a room without the map transitioning, so the game actually thinks you are in a different room.
With that we can get infinite speed on a wall and then use that in some way to skip exo.
( I don't know the exact details for which triggers you want to hit/avoid with IS to make that work, but andy should know the specifics )
If we can replicate that, then we pretty much have exo skip confirmed.
Another possibility would be to just find a secret world (oob) in one of the rooms in Phazon Core, which might be possible with the use of Fission Metroids, where we have ideas, but no positive results yet.
If it works on dolphin, would recording an input file then trying this glitch over and over until it works help with debugging it?
Yes obviously, if someone could even just get it on video that would be useful. The only documentation I've seen from it is old posts from randos on m2k2 and a couple people on Twitter. No one's ever been recording while it happened, they just take a picture of the unloaded room they're in and ask "what the heck happened?".
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
Here's another LOTAD made by someone else, it's a good watch. Movement without Space Jump is really interesting if you're not familiar with it.
Link to video
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
Joined: 9/7/2005
Posts: 143
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
itsPersonnal wrote:
Here's another LOTAD made by someone else
?
Seriously though, what does that acronym stand for? Also, I don't know if this is a compliment or insult, but a lot of that run looks like a very high level human player.
It was made with a controller and no frame advance.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
A LOTAD's basically a proof of concept. You use tools, but you play much of the game in realtime; rerecording isn't used to make the run perfect, but rather to undo mistakes and bad RNG, and to ensure that you get frame-perfect glitches. Or in other words, you use the TAS tools in places that "require TASing" but not during regular gameplay. As such, the harder a section is, the more optimized it is.
They're much faster to make than typical TASes are, and tend to be faster than speedruns because they can use the "TAS route". A fully optimized TAS is likely to beat their time, though.
Timing is IGT from starting cutscene to IGT of the death cutscene.
Sneak peak of the Metroid Prime Any% TAS that I'm still working on. It's starting to get really near to the end, hopefully I can finish before September.
I am so sorry about that audio at the start of the fight. It seems to be some sort of emulation bug... I'll try to figure some way to get rid of it for the finished product.
Yeah this is still being worked on and I now have Phazon Suit, only 4 more Artifacts to collect and final bosses to fight.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
I'm going to redo final boss a little to shave off some frames here and there, the end screen will remain the same time though since it doesn't show seconds, so here it is. Get hype or whatever it is you wanna do.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
I don't think I can submit this TAS due to the way it was made. It won't sync from start to finish because of weird RNG emulation. Technically it COULD sync... but like it's extremely unlikely. Normally can't make it past the 3rd room in Chozo because the enemy RNG causes an inconsistent dash angle and a desync, and even if you get past there, there are hundreds of other places the same thing can happen.
Completed:
2010-Current | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Individual Level TASes
2014 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 1:05:03.23
2014 | Sonic Adventure 2: Battle - Hero Story (w/ THC98) in 25:11.87
2016 | Metroid Prime - Any% in 00:37 (In-Game Time)
2018 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:42.350
2020 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Any% in 0:39:20.10
2022 | Spongebob: Battle For Bikini Bottom - Cheat% in 1:25.567
Currently working on:
METROID PRIME ANY%
Joined: 4/21/2004
Posts: 3517
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
You should submit it in case Fog_TAS can sync it. He has successfully, after a long time, managed to sync the 3 hour long Wind Waker tas.
Nitrogenesis wrote:
Guys I come from the DidyKnogRacist communite, and you are all wrong, tihs is the run of the mileniun and everyone who says otherwise dosnt know any bater! I found this run vary ease to masturbate too!!!! Don't fuck with me, I know this game so that mean I'm always right!StupedfackincommunityTASVideoz!!!!!!
Arc wrote:
I enjoyed this movie in which hands firmly gripping a shaft lead to balls deep in multiple holes.
natt wrote:
I don't want to get involved in this discussion, but as a point of fact C# is literally the first goddamn thing on that fucking page you linked did you even fucking read it
Cooljay wrote:
Mayor Haggar and Cody are such nice people for the community. Metro City's hospitals reached an all time new record of incoming patients due to their great efforts :P
You should submit it in case Fog_TAS can sync it. He has successfully, after a long time, managed to sync the 3 hour long Wind Waker tas.
From talking with andy in the past, the main reason he won't submit is because he's not satisfied enough with it yet. I don't know if this is still the main reason he doesn't want to submit but the whole syncing thing is sort of an excuse for the real reason. If you were unable to submit gamecube tases simply due to difficulties with getting it to sync, there would be far less TASes accepted with more recent versions of dolphin, probably 0.
[16:36:31] <Mothrayas> I have to say this argument about robot drug usage is a lot more fun than whatever else we have been doing in the past two+ hours
[16:08:10] <BenLubar> a TAS is just the limit of a segmented speedrun as the segment length approaches zero
?
Seriously though, what does that acronym stand for? Also, I don't know if this is a compliment or insult, but a lot of that run looks like a very high level human player.
